5.4 3v dyno sim with big comp cams <6000rpms
- Thread starter billfisher
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yeah, its ready.
i'm going to run it at the track wednesday. chasis dyno asap. my expectations are kinda dashed by the sims.
i'm going to run it at the track wednesday. chasis dyno asap. my expectations are kinda dashed by the sims.
hotmustang331
Active Member
one of the guys i'm talking to on f-150online.com, who has added as many bolt ons as he can, is just barely getting 280 whp. ford has an opportunity to do something with these by adding just a little cam. i know ford is getting ripped by f-150 owners. they have lost business from this.
i'm going to retard the cams one tooth before dyno. those comp cams are advanced 15 degrees standard.
i'm going to retard the cams one tooth before dyno. those comp cams are advanced 15 degrees standard.
hotmustang331
Active Member
^ They are probably advanced so much due to the low RPM capability of the 5.4 rotating assembly. Remember a 3V like that is going to want to rev HIGH. Advancing will increase HP down low....if you decrease the cam timing its going to stilll be building HP when you have to let off @ 5800. Or so I assume with these engines. Food for thought on why they probably did it.
yeah exactly. with vct they are trying to build as much low end as possible, even with a huge cam. retarding it to -2.5 degrees maxxed the HP for <6500.
the 3v in a 5.4 simply won't pull past 6500 in a 5.4.
the runs done with the real 127305 cam made 425hp@6000 with ported heads and 1 5/8" shorty headers, short runner intake, etc. i haven't explored stepped headers. now that i have the 4v motor staring at me. it's difficult to continue fooling with the 3v. i should have waited. the 4v is a piece of cake to get 500. it takes 12:1 CR to get more. so really the power is there, but it falls short of the streetable/daily driver 500 NA criteria. i said it already, but it's an embarrasment to ford that they skimped on cams. add 10 degrees to both in/ex and they have a killer on their hands. i'll continue to try combos to try to stumble onto something better.
the 3v in a 5.4 simply won't pull past 6500 in a 5.4.
the runs done with the real 127305 cam made 425hp@6000 with ported heads and 1 5/8" shorty headers, short runner intake, etc. i haven't explored stepped headers. now that i have the 4v motor staring at me. it's difficult to continue fooling with the 3v. i should have waited. the 4v is a piece of cake to get 500. it takes 12:1 CR to get more. so really the power is there, but it falls short of the streetable/daily driver 500 NA criteria. i said it already, but it's an embarrasment to ford that they skimped on cams. add 10 degrees to both in/ex and they have a killer on their hands. i'll continue to try combos to try to stumble onto something better.
hotmustang331
Active Member
^ Atleast you have the money lol....I assume your retired? I would love to do that kind of stuff, but I dont have the time or the money unfortunatly. SOO ill just keep up to date with what your up to 
That way when im ready I can just skip to the perfect setup lol
That way when im ready I can just skip to the perfect setup lol
no i'm not retired, i just lie to my wife.
she thinks this stuff helps with gas mileage. no matter how many times i tell her the budget, she forgets and gets mad at me for buying more stuff.
she offered to let me get a new GT if i sell this one and leave the new one alone. i told her that an 03-04 cobra will have enough power and i'll leave it alone. BS i will.
she thinks this stuff helps with gas mileage. no matter how many times i tell her the budget, she forgets and gets mad at me for buying more stuff.
she offered to let me get a new GT if i sell this one and leave the new one alone. i told her that an 03-04 cobra will have enough power and i'll leave it alone. BS i will.
hotmustang331
Active Member
LOL....I think I may be seeing my own future hahahaha. I pawn alot of my mods off as "helping with milage" too....hey they were advertised to
I should be making 400HP and getting 43MPG....but I guess company claims arent exactly accurate
I should be making 400HP and getting 43MPG....but I guess company claims arent exactly accurate
Back2Mustangs
New Member
- Sep 2, 2004
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billfisher said:
Do you mean 500 Horses at the flywheel N/A with 4v heads? Please exlpain how. I'm a newb when it comes to the 32V's. I purchased my first mod motor Mustang a few years ago, and I've slowly been catching up on all the facts about the 2V and 4V heads. I haven't even spent the time to learn about the new 3-valve heads. After returning from Italy, I've scheduled a new motor in this car by next spring (March to be exact). So I'm just now starting to explore the possibilities for N/A combo's vs boost vs N2O. I know one thing right now, and that is that I want to start with an aluminum Teksid block for the weight savings. Beyond that, I either want to deliver the most HP to tires achievable N/A, or I'm going to call Kenne Bell and be done with it.
You seem to be fairly knowledgeable about the 3 valve heads. Can you give me a quick comparison of the 3v vs 4v heads in terms of flow, cams available, etc? Point out the pro's and con's of each?
With every import and domestic sedan coming out with 300-400 horsepower...and cars like the Pagani's and C6 Z06's on the street, I'm not going to waste my time or money on 330 RWHP out of 2v heads.
hotmustang331
Active Member
^ I can tell you that most head(P&P stockers 99-01 and 03-04s)/cam 4V make between 450RWHP and 480. You can go more, but you need to throw in some tricks, or get some better heads P&Pd...like the Ford GT heads.
I can do a comparison on the 3V vs 4V, but ill let Bill....he knows ALOT and has seen both personally to boot. Ill just say that im not a big fan of the 3V heads....BUT I LOVE THE VVT capability that comes with them.
I can do a comparison on the 3V vs 4V, but ill let Bill....he knows ALOT and has seen both personally to boot. Ill just say that im not a big fan of the 3V heads....BUT I LOVE THE VVT capability that comes with them.
agreed.
the real advantage of 3v and VCT is streetable torque. they make near max torque from 2500-4500. the disadvantage seems to be port balance. the cam profiles that 3v likes are exhaust limited. there is reversion into the intake tract when the exhaust timing gets large enough to make real power in the 6500 range. (480fwhp)
so there is no farther that intake cam timing can use for more air in, and in fact ther is a considerable reverse pressure wave into the intake port on 3v caused by the exhaust cam lobe using so much of the crank revolution and the piston being on it's way back up. that happens to all motors as the incoming air hits a closed valve, but it happens too early on 3v. 3v also hates overlap the lobe seperation increases with duration to 116.5 crank degrees to make good power. i can go on and on.
remember we are talking about 380-480 fwhp with the right combo. that's way short of 4v with ported heads, but great for the average joe.
4.6 3v is going to fall short of that. if someone pushes compression to 15:1 and uses a profile with 227in/239 ex duration .5in/.550 ex lift and 116 centerlines with 139/169 @ .200 lift he will max it out, but still fall way short of 4v with an fr-500 intake. stepped header /open exhaust.
anything 3v does 4v can do also and end up on top. i still advocate 3v for good power that's better than 2v, but it still has it's place below 4v. 4v is more expensive for bolt on parts.
that's a nutshell.
the real advantage of 3v and VCT is streetable torque. they make near max torque from 2500-4500. the disadvantage seems to be port balance. the cam profiles that 3v likes are exhaust limited. there is reversion into the intake tract when the exhaust timing gets large enough to make real power in the 6500 range. (480fwhp)
so there is no farther that intake cam timing can use for more air in, and in fact ther is a considerable reverse pressure wave into the intake port on 3v caused by the exhaust cam lobe using so much of the crank revolution and the piston being on it's way back up. that happens to all motors as the incoming air hits a closed valve, but it happens too early on 3v. 3v also hates overlap the lobe seperation increases with duration to 116.5 crank degrees to make good power. i can go on and on.
remember we are talking about 380-480 fwhp with the right combo. that's way short of 4v with ported heads, but great for the average joe.
4.6 3v is going to fall short of that. if someone pushes compression to 15:1 and uses a profile with 227in/239 ex duration .5in/.550 ex lift and 116 centerlines with 139/169 @ .200 lift he will max it out, but still fall way short of 4v with an fr-500 intake. stepped header /open exhaust.
anything 3v does 4v can do also and end up on top. i still advocate 3v for good power that's better than 2v, but it still has it's place below 4v. 4v is more expensive for bolt on parts.
that's a nutshell.
the wife is making it hard for me. i'll certainly give this site the first shot at the car/motor or anything else.
i have to agree to never mod again. she hates me wrenching.
i have to agree to never mod again. she hates me wrenching.