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MSP said:
Well, every extra HP you gain still has to move more weight, so you'd have to add proportionately more horsepower to a heavier car to make it go faster. But that nice big number you get off of the dyno might make you feel good.
Oh, and it will be harder to brake, have worse body roll when cornering, have more traction problems due to the higher power, more power induced oversteer, etc. All bad things. I kind of like the charger, as a decent looking sedan, but it's not cool as a charger. If they could have been creative enough to come up with an original name (god forbid), I think almost everybody would be impressed with it. The Magnum just looks like a new fangled hearse, which I don't think is a good thing.
Turbo 05
New Member
DarkFireGT said:it's the gears man... ugh... the cars would be neck and neck if geared the same. the weight and horsepower difference should even each other out, the problem is the gears. 2.82:1 and 3.53:1 is a huge difference. That's bigger than jumping up to 4.10:1's.
the mustang uses one HP to push 11.5 lbs the magnum uses 1 HP to push 12.3 lbs, yes the Magnum probablt has more potential but only because the bigger the cubes the more the potential, but when you are talking 600+ hp both sides of the fence are needing to upgrade their blocks.
Gear Ratio Chart
Mustang Tranny
TR-3650 TCET1265
1 st 3.38
2 nd 2.00
3 rd 1.32
4 th 1.00
5 th 0.68
6 th N/A
final drive 3.55
reverse 3.38
Magnum
1st 3.59
2nd 2.19
3rd 1.41
4th 1:1
5th 0.83
Final Drive 3.07
Reverse 3.17
although we can conclude that the final gear ratio is better in the mustang for off the line acceleration, the Magnums transmission is slightly tuned better for acceleration, it would be hard to argue that the tranny is what is making the 1-1.5 sec differences i am sure it is all the weight.
Magnum curb weight 4,336 lbs
Mustang curb weight 3,450 lbs
886 lbs is alot to make up for
Shaggydog2000 said:Well, every extra HP you gain still has to move more weight, so you'd have to add proportionately more horsepower to a heavier car to make it go faster. But that nice big number you get off of the dyno might make you feel good.
Oh, and it will be harder to brake, have worse body roll when cornering, have more traction problems due to the higher power, more power induced oversteer, etc. All bad things. I kind of like the charger, as a decent looking sedan, but it's not cool as a charger. If they could have been creative enough to come up with an original name (god forbid), I think almost everybody would be impressed with it. The Magnum just looks like a new fangled hearse, which I don't think is a good thing.
You know it is interesting how I based my original thoughts on the car based on first glances.. It did not dawn on me until later what everyone was saying in regards to classic design.. The cars depicted as some have said are nice cars, but should not have gotten the name of old IMHO.. They dont look like Chargers.. I need to kick it around longer.. I think the cars look great.. But need to understand why they used the classic name.. I do like the Daytona SRT Version.. I think thats the best so far.. Comes with the tail and classic stripe kit..
I like what Chrysler has been willing to do in the last few years. No question they are farther out of the box than most and do a good job of being there. Makes GM look even farther behind than they are, and they are very far behind.
However, the new Charger could not be more but ugly than it is. I am all for raw power....but my godd man, put a decent suit around that engine. I would much prefer the Hemi 300 to that horrible design mistake they are now calling the charger. It could have 400hp and I would settle for the GT simply because I would be embarassed to get in that thing.
I like the 300C, I like the whole Magnum idea, I like the Dodge Ram, I own a Dakota.....I absolutely hate that bland, uninspiring car they are calling a Charger - hemi or no hemi.
However, the new Charger could not be more but ugly than it is. I am all for raw power....but my godd man, put a decent suit around that engine. I would much prefer the Hemi 300 to that horrible design mistake they are now calling the charger. It could have 400hp and I would settle for the GT simply because I would be embarassed to get in that thing.
I like the 300C, I like the whole Magnum idea, I like the Dodge Ram, I own a Dakota.....I absolutely hate that bland, uninspiring car they are calling a Charger - hemi or no hemi.
Turbo 05
New Member
thew magnum would have to come from the factory with 380 hp to be even with the stang and be sold with the 380hp for $25k
Turbo 05 said:
Magnum curb weight is 4125, not 4336. And I don't know where you come up with the gear ratio's but they're totally off. The gear ratio's for the RT RWD are as follows:
1st 3.59:1
2nd 2.19:1
3rd 1.41:1
4th 1.00:1
5th 0.83:1
Final drive 2.82:1
So you are quite a bit off there.
stanmckinney said:
We all bleed Ford Blue.. This is supposed to be an impartial look at Dodges new products.. DarkFireGT is a perfect example of impartial.. He actually owns the car some are desperately trying to defend, and letting their own bias get in the way of an impartial point of view..
Bottom line on these new Dodges, is they are kick ass cars.. The stock engines are setup that with a tune, its curtains for a GT.. This is the main point..
Everyone else thought it was highly needed that their cars have alot more than 300HP.. Why did Ford settle on this number? Also, the other cars are able to meet or exceed the GT's MPG.. How is it, that they can give their customers more HP, and better MPG.. Maybe DarkfireGT can ring in on this..
DarkFireGT, in your honest opinion, between your 2 awsome cars, which one is better on gas? I know the Magnum is heavier.. Has more power.. How does it fair to the GT..
I'm not bagging on the GT, I am bagging on Ford.. They could have given you guys atleast 350HP and slightly better MPG.. Which also says, the V6 should also do much better in this dept..
It is my opinion that the new GT's should be boosted to 350HP from the factory, and improves on the MPG.. Nice would also be the V6's get 250HP, and 250TQ.. But this is only a dream.. But for sure, if nothing else give the GT's 350HP.. I dont think its fair that the Mustangs owners always have to out drive the other cars in order to win.. Just give them enough balls to get the job done..
MSP said:
I disagree with you on a few points. The magnum may have more hp but so what? It still isn't faster than the mustang so why does it even matter? Of course, if that engine was put to good use and used in a car that weighs less than 4000 lbs than it would beat the mustang no doubt. It would be stupid though for ford to add extra hp to the gt just so it can say it has more hp than a magnum when it already outperforms it. Plus, in order for the mustang to get to 350 hp it would probably require 91 octane gas and would cost more which are 2 things you wouldn't want to happen.
Dont be suprised if a 2 door Charger pops up in a year or so. There is already more than one prototype running around and a 2 door 300 C convertible (same platform) is already in the making.
The Dodge product Im most curious about is the Caliber. Its the replacement for the Neon, I work at the plant that will make thme and the success of this car will directly effect my future. We will also be building two different Jeep cars, one we know will be the Jeep Compass.
Heres a link to the Caliber if anyones intrested.
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0508/09/C06-274094.htm
The Dodge product Im most curious about is the Caliber. Its the replacement for the Neon, I work at the plant that will make thme and the success of this car will directly effect my future. We will also be building two different Jeep cars, one we know will be the Jeep Compass.
Heres a link to the Caliber if anyones intrested.
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0508/09/C06-274094.htm
LIZARDKING
Active Member
OK, Ive owned many MOPARS over the years. Chrysler is trying to jump on the sucess of the retro Mustang with name recognition. Look at the R&D Ford put into the 05 Mustang. What R&D did Chrysler put into the new Charger? Nothing, they slapped a recognizable nameplate on a 4-door sedan, made it available with a hemi, and hope to sell thousands.
The better name recognition would have been Road Runner or Cuda, to bad they s-canned the Plymouth brand.
Chrysler has had many industry leading inovations over the years, but they suffer from overpricing and low resale value.
As far as the Charger goes it is just a stop-gap measure to try and throw some competention at Ford until they can come out with a new platform.
The Magnum is a neat car, but its size, weight, and price dont really put in in a performance sports car market. Its more for the guy who needs a minivan but wants a sports car.
I would never buy a Chrysler product new again. Thier value drops much faster than the comparible model from GM or Ford.
Ive owned a 69 Dart GTS, 67 GTX, 71 Charger, 66 Coronet, 97 Sebring vert, and a 02 Ram.
The better name recognition would have been Road Runner or Cuda, to bad they s-canned the Plymouth brand.
Chrysler has had many industry leading inovations over the years, but they suffer from overpricing and low resale value.
As far as the Charger goes it is just a stop-gap measure to try and throw some competention at Ford until they can come out with a new platform.
The Magnum is a neat car, but its size, weight, and price dont really put in in a performance sports car market. Its more for the guy who needs a minivan but wants a sports car.
I would never buy a Chrysler product new again. Thier value drops much faster than the comparible model from GM or Ford.
Ive owned a 69 Dart GTS, 67 GTX, 71 Charger, 66 Coronet, 97 Sebring vert, and a 02 Ram.
MSP said:
The Magnum gets way better gas mileage. I get 23-24 mpg highway and about 17-18 city. No way can I get that out of my Mustang, and this is due, mostly, to the MDS system, which I must say is one of the most innovative things done with an engine in the past 5 years (don't flame, I said one of). Whomever said the ride of the Mustang was better than these new Mopars, you are sorely mistaken. The Mustang is anything but a luxury rider. The live axle ruins the ride. The Chrysler LX platform uses MB E-Class suspension.. It's a beautiful ride.
With this post, I am in no way dogging Mustangs. I've owned 2, about to pick up my 3rd this week, and love them. Nothing compares to the sound of a Mustang, along with the feel of driving one. I would take a Mustang over my Magnum any day. But it's about practicality. If you can't drive a Mustang every day, and need a practical car, that still has style and power, the LX platform is the way to go. I'm impartial, and I will hear opinions, but when people are bashing a car they've never owned, over a car they do, they can hardly compare. And everyone saying their slow just bugs me so much because no matter how many times I say it, hardly anyone listens. The gearing is the ONLY reason the LX cars can't keep up with a Mustang. What's the first thing people say to do when you get a Mustang and come on here? Get new gears. Because it makes a substantial difference. Think about just taking two stock Mustangs, and switching one of the to 2.82:1 gears, and leaving the other with stock 3.53:1 gears (I'm quoting '05, I believe that's the correct number), you would see the difference. In fact, I bet an '05 with 2.82 gears would most likely run within 3 tenths in the quarter as an LX, higher or lower... It's just such a tired subject and it's so annoying that everyone critiques these cars based on numbers and hear-say.
I'm Steve, I own both, and those are my opinions
So...for some reason you think only the gears are causing the magnum to be slower than the mustang... not weight. Right, so I guess close to 800 pounds differnce in wait has no substantial bearing on performance? I mean of course the gears are effecting it too but come on 800 pounds is a lot of weight to overcome.
sawman70
New Member
No tuning yet for the Daihmler products so mute point.
What if I bought a Charger and put road runner decals all over it and a 426 emblem on the fender. That would be cool.
What if I bought a Charger and put road runner decals all over it and a 426 emblem on the fender. That would be cool.
