Help 363 or 427 Cant make up my mind

[93notchback347!]

I have a 1993 Ford Mustang notchback with a 347 and a V1 supercharger... 5spd Tremec TKO 600, complete suspension rear end etc. Ready for new engine, should i go dart 363 with a procharger or dart 427 with a supercharger.. Keeping it EFI. Money isnt an issue. I was just like some stangnet help between the two engines. Thank you. Hope everybody is healthy and safe during this pandemic.

 

[96pushrod]

Well if you’ve got a whole bunch of money sitting around I’d say go with the 427. The 363 will be easier to fit, but more cubes will get you more power.

You can make 800whp without a whole lot of effort on a 363 and a f1 though.

 

[93notchback347!]

96pushrod thank you for popping my stangnet cherry your my first reply. Just joined.. Thanks for the input. I got a cowl hood so 351 based 427 will fit fine.. Im tilting toward the more cubes also. Only other issue is im Pretty sure I'm going to need a vacuum pump (so i was told) to get oil to those rings and for the brakes unless I go hydroboost. I already am cramped in my engine compartment now with a 302 based 347 Vortech V1 charger 4 core radiator dual electric fans etc. Vacuum pump is just one more thing to take room under the hood. Not a deal breaker just something to take in consideration. Thanks again buddy hope you and your family are staying safe and healthy throwing this pandemic.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

I’d imagine that a vacuum pump won’t discriminate between the two engines. What’s good for the big engine, is equally good for the smaller one. A vacuum pump usually goes hand in hand with any race engine built with low tension rings, regardless of the power adder. A vacuum pumps’ primary purpose is for crankcase ventilation, NOT to suck oil to the rings Nor to provide vacuum for you PBB.

And as to your question about which is a better engine, Hands down the 427 is. Better Rod ratio, not a maximum over bore, better piston ring land design, buttloads more power with less effort.......No contest.

 

[2000xp8]

Feels like just yesterday we had this same debate.
If you are going to stuff it full of boost, I still see no need for added complexity of a 351 based engine.
If it was an all motor build, I think the extra cubic inches could be useful, but if not...

How is your 347 built?
If it has high end internals, why not just do a dart 347 using your existing parts?

The reality is that you could make 1500hp with either one.

 

[93notchback347!]

CarMichael angelo thank you for the reply and giving me the right information about the vacuum pump. And good point about 363 being close to Max bore. Again thank you for taking the time out and helping me out.

 

[96pushrod]

I’d imagine that a vacuum pump won’t discriminate between the two engines. What’s good for the big engine, is equally good for the smaller one. A vacuum pump usually goes hand in hand with any race engine built with low tension rings, regardless of the power adder. A vacuum pumps’ primary purpose is for crankcase ventilation, NOT to suck oil to the rings Nor to provide vacuum for you PBB.

And as to your question about which is a better engine, Hands down the 427 is. Better Rod ratio, not a maximum over bore, better piston ring land design, buttloads more power with less effort.......No contest.

To be fair, the 427 and 363 have the same bore - at least the most common variants do at 4.125. A dart block will take a helluva lot more than that.

The 351w based setup will make more power with less boost. Money isn’t an object, might as well take the 64 extra cubes.

 

[TOOLOW91]

363 is not close to max bore . Nor is a Vac pump needed to do what you want to do . A 363 is a 4.125 bore block . Darts will go 4.185 before they need a sleeve.

We have made mid 700s on moderate boost and pump gas / meth with a ysi on multiple cars . Through autos with HYD roller cams .

c16 and you’ll mAke 890 or better at the tire depending on what blower , how far you want to push it, your valve train , Cyl head , intake ,cam , and how high you can rev it based off that .

Bob Clayton has been 7.0s with a 363 in the 1/4 with a turbo . No where near a street car build but it’s plenty capable .

Nick @84Ttop crank driven ysi 438 car that was driven on the street had no vacuum pump either . Manual brakes on that one so it doesn’t apply .

 

[90sickfox]

Might as well do a big bore 363 in a 8.2in deck Dart block. I think the same crank from a 347 is used with bigger bore. Not as involved as a 351 swap.

The 363 - The Hottest Ford Stroker - Hot Rod Magazine

News flash: Bigger bores mean more displacement. Enter the 363 Stroker. We call upon ARP, Dar, Edelbrock, Fel-Pro, Holley, Milodon, MSD, and Summit to help us check things out. Let's hope this leads to something astounding. - Hot Rod Magazine

www.hotrod.com

 

[TOOLOW91]

Might as well do a big bore 363 in a 8.2in deck Dart block. I think the same crank from a 347 is used with bigger bore. Not as involved as a 351 swap.

The 363 - The Hottest Ford Stroker - Hot Rod Magazine

News flash: Bigger bores mean more displacement. Enter the 363 Stroker. We call upon ARP, Dar, Edelbrock, Fel-Pro, Holley, Milodon, MSD, and Summit to help us check things out. Let's hope this leads to something astounding. - Hot Rod Magazine

www.hotrod.com

Same bore different stroke . I’d build a 363 if it were me . I was supposed to get that but we won’t go into how that happened

I think it’s a 3.4 with a 4.125 where as the 347 is a 3.250 and a 5.400 rod . That’s what’s in mine it’s a big bore 347 .

 

[90sickfox]

I've never built a 8.2 based 363. The 351 block has a taller deck and needs a different ratio.

 

[TOOLOW91]

I've never built a 8.2 based 363. The 351 block has a taller deck and needs a different ratio.

Yup . 8.2 is 4.125 , 5.400 , 3.400 . They make some power !!

 

[ThinBlue502]

One of the fastest cars I’ve ever ridden in was a supercharged 427 foxbody. One of the few cars where I have told the driver “ok bro, it’s fast, slow down.”

Just my $0.02...

 

[Reddevil91]

This is interesting to read bc I’ve now been contemplating a stroker. Came across a new dart block but it’s the 8.2 4.00 bore and not the mentioned 4.125. Can one not stroke this to a 363 or would that be pushing the limits? I wanted a 347 but thought well why not 363? Go figure!! A buddy of mine is all about NA big blocks, and is always pushing me to do a 351 based 408 or 427, but then I’d have to swap all my goodies to accommodate the 351 motor which I’d rather just transfer what I can over vs having to buy new intake, headers etc. So I run TFS 11r190s and on lmrs page they have 2 363’s motor a ford boss and dart. The dart 363 specifically says that this motor will not work with TFS twisted wedge heads. Is this only bc of the pistons that this motor comes with? Back to the beginning here, on that dart shp 4.00 bore is this a good block to pick up in regards to stroking or is the 4.125 better?

 

[90sickfox]

With the Dart block there's nothing that would keep me from doing a 363 stroker. I'm sure the problem is the pistons used in that block. I think the 8.2 deck 363 needs 4.125 cylinders. It gains the c.i. with cylinder bore size.

 

[2000xp8]

I've still yet to see anyone come up with a good explanation of why anyone would need a 427 over a dart 363 in a street car when running an aspirated engine.
What, so you can run like 3 pounds of boost less?
At this level of build, that number is negligible. If you were talking a stock 302 bottom end, a few lbs is a lot, each one creeps you closer to some level of risk, that's a time when lower boost matters.
I still believe the 351 adds complexity and cost, without really giving anything in return.

 

[TOOLOW91]

I've still yet to see anyone come up with a good explanation of why anyone would need a 427 over a dart 363 in a street car when running an aspirated engine.
What, so you can run like 3 pounds of boost less?
At this level of build, that number is negligible. If you were talking a stock 302 bottom end, a few lbs is a lot, each one creeps you closer to some level of risk, that's a time when lower boost matters.
I still believe the 351 adds complexity and cost, without really giving anything in return.

AMEN

 

[TOOLOW91]

This is interesting to read bc I’ve now been contemplating a stroker. Came across a new dart block but it’s the 8.2 4.00 bore and not the mentioned 4.125. Can one not stroke this to a 363 or would that be pushing the limits? I wanted a 347 but thought well why not 363? Go figure!! A buddy of mine is all about NA big blocks, and is always pushing me to do a 351 based 408 or 427, but then I’d have to swap all my goodies to accommodate the 351 motor which I’d rather just transfer what I can over vs having to buy new intake, headers etc. So I run TFS 11r190s and on lmrs page they have 2 363’s motor a ford boss and dart. The dart 363 specifically says that this motor will not work with TFS twisted wedge heads. Is this only bc of the pistons that this motor comes with? Back to the beginning here, on that dart shp 4.00 bore is this a good block to pick up in regards to stroking or is the 4.125 better?

You want the 4.125 Dart with the Siamese bores. Youre not going to get 363 inches out of a 4.000 bore dart block. If youre planning on a 363 youd want atleast the 190s but a 205 11r would fit the bill .

 

[96pushrod]

You want the 4.125 Dart with the Siamese bores. Youre not going to get 363 inches out of a 4.000 bore dart block. If youre planning on a 363 youd want atleast the 190s but a 205 11r would fit the bill .

They’re the exact same block. Both can be taken to near 4.200 and are Siamese bores

 

[TOOLOW91]

They’re the exact same block. Both can be taken to near 4.200 and are Siamese bores

For some reason i was always under the assumption that they were two different castings I don’t know why , I stand corrected on that one !