need help frpp 4.10 gear issue ?

[GOLDENPONY]

Gear Noise

The rear axle in the S197 is EXACTLY the same as far as gear setup goes. An 8.8 center section is an 8.8 center section. There may be differences in tube and axle lengths and axle assembly mounting points, but the center section is set up in EXACTLY the same way.

Here's the source of the problem. When using FRPP gears, in almost all cases, you can simply install the gears using the exact same shims in the exact same locations as the original setup and you will get a proper pattern and backlash. THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN EVERY TIME! SOooo... what happens is some guys get too confident with the FRPP gears and simply slam them in place without checking the pattern and backlash. In most cases they get by with it, but every once in a while they get bit. In your case, you got bit because the tech and the shop allowed you to get bit.

ANY TIME a carrier is removed for ANY reason, the pattern and backlash should be checked and set up if necessary upon reassembly.

BTW, checking pinion depth is not an operation in and of itself. Pinion depth is checked by checking the pattern. If the pattern and backlash are correct, then the pinion depth is correct.

SOOooo.... for me, the fact that the shop used FRPP gears and ended up with a noisy rear axle tells me that they did NOT check pattern and backlash, while assuming that it would be okay. If it were me I would be asking some questions including; who was the tech that did the work, is it normal shop practice to not properly check their work, etc.

Well said Sir!

 

[explrsport]

I had FRPP's 3.73 ring & pinion installed in my '02 GT 5-spd manual and had no noise whatsoever from the day of install until I sold it, two years later...

Now, for my '05 GT manual, I've having FRPP 4.10s installed along with D-Spec Tokicos before the end of the month.

For what it's worth department: My installer told me to buy FRPP's without the "M" at the end of the part number (#M4209G410-"M") which is the Motive-built ring & pinion sold by FRPP.

He said that they have had no post-install problems with the FRPP part #M4209G410-"A" after dozens of installs. After a few post-install noise problems with the M version he won't install them anymore.

Looking at the Mustang parts supplier websites, the M version 4.10s can be had for $150-190 and the A version 4.10s are priced higher, about $210-$260 - so there's obvioulsy a difference in the reseller's cost. Many resellers don't even specify which version they are selling.

So while it's true that the newer Mustangs have the same 8.8" differential as the older ones, and take the same ring & pinion sets, the contributing factor to more noise problems after upgrades is that FRPP has contracted for a different sole or second-source manufacturer for their product.

Your mileage may vary.

Jeff

 

[mustangmike6996]

sounds like a pinion depth issue i beleive that they need to add a 0.030" shim when installing frpp gears

 

[JTGrant]

From talking to tommy from JPC, the rear end is the same. Except for a few small differences where the control arms mount upper and lower. He said that they have had some cars that were very difficult to set them up without noise. While others didn't have any problems. It took me three times before I got mine quiet. The other two times the patterns were acceptable and the backlash was spot on and they still made noise (Coast side). But finally I got it right on.

 

[JTGrant]

sounds like a pinion depth issue i beleive that they need to add a 0.030" shim when installing frpp gears

Not always that depends on the difference in manufactering between the housing and the pinion. That is the nomial pinion shim to use no add to the stock one. That is why there is pinion depth gauges and there is also several ways of checking pinion depth.

 

[Rock36]

For what it's worth department: My installer told me to buy FRPP's without the "M" at the end of the part number (#M4209G410-"M") which is the Motive-built ring & pinion sold by FRPP.

He said that they have had no post-install problems with the FRPP part #M4209G410-"A" after dozens of installs. After a few post-install noise problems with the M version he won't install them anymore.

Looking at the Mustang parts supplier websites, the M version 4.10s can be had for $150-190 and the A version 4.10s are priced higher, about $210-$260 - so there's obvioulsy a difference in the reseller's cost. Many resellers don't even specify which version they are selling.


Jeff

Damn that blows....I looked at my stuff and I have the motive 4.10s from FRPP. Thankfully, I have no issues with whine, but I was trying to get pure FRPP gears to lower my risk of gear whine. I wish I knew about the M designator before.

 

[poonstang16]

The rear axle in the S197 is EXACTLY the same as far as gear setup goes. An 8.8 center section is an 8.8 center section. There may be differences in tube and axle lengths and axle assembly mounting points, but the center section is set up in EXACTLY the same way.

Here's the source of the problem. When using FRPP gears, in almost all cases, you can simply install the gears using the exact same shims in the exact same locations as the original setup and you will get a proper pattern and backlash. THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN EVERY TIME! SOooo... what happens is some guys get too confident with the FRPP gears and simply slam them in place without checking the pattern and backlash. In most cases they get by with it, but every once in a while they get bit. In your case, you got bit because the tech and the shop allowed you to get bit.

ANY TIME a carrier is removed for ANY reason, the pattern and backlash should be checked and set up if necessary upon reassembly.

BTW, checking pinion depth is not an operation in and of itself. Pinion depth is checked by checking the pattern. If the pattern and backlash are correct, then the pinion depth is correct.

SOOooo.... for me, the fact that the shop used FRPP gears and ended up with a noisy rear axle tells me that they did NOT check pattern and backlash, while assuming that it would be okay. If it were me I would be asking some questions including; who was the tech that did the work, is it normal shop practice to not properly check their work, etc.

I installed my 410s with a friend. he has several years experience and as engineers we both had access to precision equipment. I guess we still screwed it up. can you offer info on how exactly you have had success with checking the pattern adn the exact location where you measured the backlash and how much you set it to....please

 

[JimC]

Check out this link. It's not mustang specific but good artical on setting up gears properly

http://www.pirate4x4.com/articles/tech/billavista/Gear_Setup

 

[kooldawg6]

Just got back from having 4.10s put in my Stang. They use the FRPP gears. They guy who did them said he has done atleast 30 of the S197 rears so far with very few complaints. He uses the Friction Modifier( before he started, I asked him if they use it, he just laughed and said they order that stuff by the case...you HAVE to use that stuff). He was saying how the backlash IS the key to doing it right. First he tries the factory shim as it came out, if that doesn't work he flips them over. After that he will use different shims(his cart must have had at least 100 or more shims on it). With the factory shims flipped over the backlash was at 12.5(he said it was to much for him). Used a diffrent shim and got it to 9. He likes to have them between12 and 7 to 7.5. I asked him about break in period. His answer was just take it kinda easy for the first 50 miles and NO burnouts!!!!! Well, it was a 42 mile ride home and there was absolutely NO unusual noises coming from the back of the car.

 

[MBDiagMan]

Just got back from having 4.10s put in my Stang. They use the FRPP gears. They guy who did them said he has done atleast 30 of the S197 rears so far with very few complaints. He uses the Friction Modifier( before he started, I asked him if they use it, he just laughed and said they order that stuff by the case...you HAVE to use that stuff). He was saying how the backlash IS the key to doing it right. First he tries the factory shim as it came out, if that doesn't work he flips them over. After that he will use different shims(his cart must have had at least 100 or more shims on it). With the factory shims flipped over the backlash was at 12.5(he said it was to much for him). Used a diffrent shim and got it to 9. He likes to have them between12 and 7 to 7.5. I asked him about break in period. His answer was just take it kinda easy for the first 50 miles and NO burnouts!!!!! Well, it was a 42 mile ride home and there was absolutely NO unusual noises coming from the back of the car.

Backlash is not "the key" but if you get the backlash right and are using FRPP gears starting with the original shims you will almost always be okay. Equally as important as backlash is the pattern. If he is only adjusting the backlash without checking the pattern is not doing a thorough job.

 

[kooldawg6]

Just over 500 miles in just under a weeks time after the FRPP 4.10 install and not a single odd noise or whine from the rear end what so ever. So i'd have to say, if done and checked correctly along with some of the Friction Modifier, you should have no issues unless it is some manufacturing defect.

 

[MBDiagMan]

Just over 500 miles in just under a weeks time after the FRPP 4.10 install and not a single odd noise or whine from the rear end what so ever. So i'd have to say, if done and checked correctly along with some of the Friction Modifier, you should have no issues unless it is some manufacturing defect.

Yep, isn't it amazing how things come out when done by someone who not only KNOWS what they are doing, but also CARES ABOUT what they are doing.

 

[kooldawg6]

Just over 1000 miles after the swap and STILL absolutley no whine what so ever!!!!!