T&L Engines F-up...

[DK832]

Can you believe it, a friend of mine got a brand new stroker from T&L Engines. Ran less than 60 miles on it, took it apart and found this:

View attachment 310044



It would seem obvious to check what way your headgaskets are put in? Mayby have a look at the little arrow that says "FRONT"?

amnit:

 

[D.Hearne]

It's not uncommon to find a Ford V8 with the head gaskets installed backwards. Especially if assembled by some one unfamiliar with these engines. That gasket looks like it's got more than 60 miles on it.

 

[70vert]

uh oh. Confidence in my planned T&L purchase waning . . .

 

[BornInAFord]

Just curious why he pulled it apart? Was the engine overheating? Was the 60 miles actually 240 passes?

That gasket does look like it came from an engine with more than 60 miles on it. It looks like there is a lot of sludge and rust on it, but it could be from disassembly...

 

[bnickel]

one more reason for me to trust no one to build an engine my car other than me.

 

[jadesville]

So if that came from a 60 mile engine, what did the rest of the bottom end look like?

 

[DK832]

The 60 miles is break in street driving only. I'm not sure what other symptoms besides overheating he saw.
Knowing his temper the gasket probably looks like that because he's thrown it on the ground and jumped around on it with flames & smoke coming out his ears. He's considering pulling the rest of the engine apart to check things I think, but he needs it for a vacation drive.
Sorry for the lack of details, just wanted to share (another) T&L story.
Buy locally!

 

[DK832]

Update: after new headgasket - this time with "FRONT" pointing forward he drove another ~60 miles and blew the gasket again. After taking the head of again 2 lifters looked like this. Mind you, this is an engine that has been broken in and dynoed at T&L. He & his buddies are serious gearheads, drive and race very expensive & advanced gear, so it's VERY unlikely they messed up.

View attachment 307634 View attachment 307635 View attachment 307636

 

[D.Hearne]

Wiped cams lobes....................happens to everyone lately. Experience has nothing to do with it. Had two cams wipe a single lobe each myself. There are multiple reasons for it happening. Bad lifters, bad cam cores, too much lube keeping the lobe from spinning the lifter at startup, not enough zinc in the oil, not enough splash lube while the cam is breaking in. Improper breakin proceedure. Take your pick. Both mine were due to either bad lifters or too much lube and/or too thick lube on startup.

 

[reignman1]

Im sure theres no chance that these "amazing weekend warrior gearheads" didn't have a solid zinc compound oil that would help with camshaft break in and lubrication correct? Im also sure they didn't jack with the timing and mess other aspects of the build up since they're professionals.

 

[DK832]

Please don't disrespect people you don't know.... Most of these guys are professional racers, top methanol and down. And seriously, how many people at T&L are left from the NASCAR times and how many are just hired hands these days? Build back your reputation by handling the mistakes we all make, learn from them, improve your QC and move on.

Out of ignorance of crate engines: as the engine was dynoed at T&L prior to delivery I assume it's fairly broken in anyway?

Hearne: your're right, it's monday in every shop from time to time. Besides 100% testing there's no way around a failure from time to time, and as consumers we accept this. With a good return policy and explicit warranties that's easily handled by the vendor.

 

[CraigMBA]

Wiped cams are a way of life these days. Blame roller cams and reformulated oils. I have no comment on the headgasket issue.

 

[D.Hearne]

Im sure theres no chance that these "amazing weekend warrior gearheads" didn't have a solid zinc compound oil that would help with camshaft break in and lubrication correct? Im also sure they didn't jack with the timing and mess other aspects of the build up since they're professionals.

There are multiple reasons for the flat tappet cam failures of the past few years, the "missing zinc" is only a part of the problems. If you were half a mechanic you'd know that. I have no knowledge of this company, nor their reputation,and certainly do not endorse their stuff, but this **** can happen (and does) to the best of em.

 

[mrmustangman357]

what has t&L responded with?

 

[nemesis418]

Response ????

Ive been told that theres a thread on stangnet about my engine from T&L and ive just read it
and ill have to bid in !

To make a long story short heres what happened:

From order to , ready for shipping ... Promised 6-8 weeks. Actual 7 month !

Pryor to installing i contacted T&L to ask if there should be any break in/run in issues for me to
take care about ! Answer :Track: ! Great !

After installing the engine an initial startup after priming it, it wouldnt run properly så we checked
the timing, it was set to 3 degrees ! That we gradually changed up to 12 degrees where it ran the
best ....but still not perfect . according to T&L it should be 10 deg. !

Ran about 60 miles total

They tryed to wipe it all off on saying that running on octane 95 in the first 10 miles then octane 99
and the extra 2 deg. on the timing ..... it was my own dooing that the engine blew the head gasket !?

istalled new gaskets and ran another 60 miles it blew the gaskets again

I took a static compression on the engine and on the good cylinders it was 255 Psi ! A bit high for normal gaskets!?

Then i took the engine out to inspect it further an found a busted cam and a lifter so i lost all will
to wrench on it and let it hang on the engine stand for a couple of weeks wile cooling off from my dissapointment and anger.

Well i kept contact to T&L until September 30th where the offer on the table was a new cam new lifters,
head bolts and head gaskets. But now ive pulled it all apart and ALL the bearings are gone the crankshaft,
oil pump ..... all damaged by debris from the cam and lifter

I contacted them by mail the 30th September to ask them to reconsider their offer and have re-sent the mail
several times ..... But NO answer

So guys im pretty dissapointed with my experiences with them but will still give them the benefit of the doubt.
They can still surprise mee ... and i really hope they will !!

And yes we can all have a bad assembly day but this is a proffessional engine builder !! and im sure their engines
runs strong (it did) but when something like this happens their warranty should cover it ! or what ?

Tommy

 

[my9302002]

Tommy,
That stinks, I've researched T&L and actually have them on my e-mail list since I will be going for a new engine once all the body and interior work is done. This has really put some serious doubt in my mind, please keep us posted on what happens. This might bring me back to reality in "doing it locally"
Andrew
68 conv

 

[hhead]

Tommy,
This might bring me back to reality in "doing it locally"
Andrew
68 conv

nothing like being there for the dyno break-in!!

 

[nemesis418]

Update

I will keep you posted if and when there is something new in the story of the
nemesis418 T&L stroker to Denmark !

To "borninaford" Its rust ! and its also on the inner ring ! so theres proably
the caurse of why it would´nt run perfect! must have been there when they shipped it to Demark + a cam-lifter problem

It must have been dripping a little becaurse short after (5 miles) the first time i preassure´d
it a little in 3. gear (50-120mph) it became warm 210 degrees and the two electric fans stopped
i stopped the car at once and called my boss to come and get me with a trailer !

Tommy
:SNSign:

 

[bnickel]

I will keep you posted if and when there is something new in the story of the
nemesis418 T&L stroker to Denmark !

To "borninaford" Its rust ! and its also on the inner ring ! so theres proably
the caurse of why it would´nt run perfect! must have been there when they shipped it to Demark + a cam-lifter problem

It must have been dripping a little becaurse short after (5 miles) the first time i preassure´d
it a little in 3. gear (50-120mph) it became warm 210 degrees and the two electric fans stopped
i stopped the car at once and called my boss to come and get me with a trailer !

Tommy
:SNSign:

rust sludge?!?!.......make me wonder if it didn't experience a moisture problem on the trip over from the states....perhaps?

 

[D.Hearne]

I will keep you posted if and when there is something new in the story of the
nemesis418 T&L stroker to Denmark !

To "borninaford" Its rust ! and its also on the inner ring ! so theres proably
the caurse of why it would´nt run perfect! must have been there when they shipped it to Demark + a cam-lifter problem

It must have been dripping a little becaurse short after (5 miles) the first time i preassure´d
it a little in 3. gear (50-120mph) it became warm 210 degrees and the two electric fans stopped
i stopped the car at once and called my boss to come and get me with a trailer !

Tommy
:SNSign:

I can sympathize with you and the problems you've had with this engine, but the simple fact is the cam and lifter problem is beyond the control of the engine builder. You're not the first one to have had this problem and won't be the last. If the cam and lifters were going south, you should have heard that racket and shut it down before damage was done to the bearings. The racket you'd have heard was the rockers coming loose with the wear from the cam lobes and lifter bottoms. That was, I'll bet, the reason the engine never ran right. As for the running at 210*, that's completely normal. 210*F is not hot. At the very least, all the builder owes you is the cam and lifters. And if he was reputable, he'd throw in a full set of bearings. Your choosing to continue running the engine with all the racket the loose rockers were making was beyond his control. Could be he should have inspected the cam and lifters after break-in and before shipping it overseas, and who knows if he did, but what's done is done. He's not completely at fault here.