typical cam problems

[Night Shifter]

so i have installed my hitech stage II's and at the lower rpm level i was getting a stumble to it..i didnt switch to the tr6 plugs cause i wanted to wait a day or so to see if i threw any codes.. of course i did..i got the random misfire code, cyl. 6 misfire code, and the slow responce h02 code that's been there since my long tube install way back

i have the tr6's now just havnt put them in yet..i know theres a ton of threads on this but i apparently suck at the internet can cant find them...there was something about the crankshaft positioning sensor too right? what else should i check

on the way to work today my check engine light started flashing and my car was misfiring baaad...no matter how lightly i pushed the gas at any rpm it was stumbling and had that square wheel feeling..i dont have my programmer with me so i cant see what the code is thats causing my check engine light to be going crazy

when i put the new plugs in today what else should i check...im hoping they are the problem but any ideas you guys can give me would be great

 

[trinity_gt]

Plugs aren't going to fix this.

When you installed the crank damper, describe how you torqued the crank snout bolt.

 

[Night Shifter]

umm the guy that installed the cams did that and i was at work at the time so i have no idea...anything i should look for or go over with that?

 

[Night Shifter]

dont know if this helps but all the pulleys were already on the motor before the cams were installed...the whole motor was put together before the cams were put in

 

[Cobra123089]

do you have a tune? I had misfire codes with my comp 270's and no tune. Mine did not feel like a misfire tho. I would pull the codes again and then look for coolant in the spark plug well of the mis firing cylinder

 

[Night Shifter]

negatory on the tune...i cant get a tune for a while until i break everything in..i only have like 160 miles on this beast...maybe a little more...waiting till i have at least 1000 before i bring it above 3k.. i know a tune has a lot to do with it but i dont think the car should be running this bad without one

 

[Midnight2V]

Why would you need to wait until 1000 miles to get a tune? With the special coatings applied to modern engine components, there is no need to do extended break-ins. Even piston rings seat the first time you hit it on the dyno these days. Comp recommends about 10 minutes of idle before the cam is ready for full duty. I can't see HiTech being significantly different from that. Better to get at least a proper running canned tune than to run your system untuned and risk a failure.

Not trying to bash you, it's just that break-in time these days is largely obsolete.

 

[Night Shifter]

nah its cool, i dont take it as bashing at all...its all in the process of learning ya know..i know i dont have to really wait to break it in to get just a quickie cam tune but i have bad luck and id rather at least have a few hundred miles on it before i strap her on the dyno..just cant figure out why its running so poorly and making the CEL flash at me..i mean i knew id throw misfire codes and that it wouldnt be perfect until i tuned it but its running really bad...like something is actually wrong bad

anything i can change myself with the xcal 3 to get it closer to the point of ok without actually doing a full tune? any pointers? i have access to a dyno from where i work and i can alway throw the car on there anytime i want...maybe i can go in and change something myself for right now?

i know a person thats qualified in tuning cars should do this but if someone out here knows some stuff i could do ill go and try that

 

[trinity_gt]

dont know if this helps but all the pulleys were already on the motor before the cams were installed...the whole motor was put together before the cams were put in

It's an odd way to build the motor since the front cover really should be removed -- and hence the crank pulley taken off -- to access the timing chains, guides and tensioners when doing cams.

Bottom line: An incorrectly torqued crank pulley/damper bolt can allow the ignition trigger wheel to move around a bit causing the PCM to think there's misfires going on.

 

[Night Shifter]

so if i pull the pulley off what should i torque it to? this thing is misfiring like a bastard and im going to try everything that i can to fix it

 

[trinity_gt]

I would start by asking the person that built the engine to explain how they put the cams in properly without removing the front cover. You said that the whole motor was put together before the cams were put in: If they had the engine out of the car and ended up using something like an AFM tool I'd be pretty disappointed if I were you.

If you want to check the bolt, get a new one from Ford: It's torque-to-yield (TTY) and must be replaced every use. Don't remove the damper from the crank, just remove the old bolt. Transfer the washer over and install the new bolt. Tighten as follows:

• tighten bolt to 66 ft-lbs
• loosen bolt one full turn
• tighten bolt to 37 ft-lbs
• tighten bolt additional 90-degrees

 

[Night Shifter]

the motor was out of the car during the cam install.. and now that i looked at pics, no pulleys were installed before hand..for some reason i ws thinking the were...so could this still be the problem?

ill also pull the bolt, get a new one and do as you said...and please excuse my ignorance but what is an AFM tool?

 

[trinity_gt]

ill also pull the bolt, get a new one and do as you said...and please excuse my ignorance but what is an AFM tool?

Anderson Ford Motorsport made/makes a tool designed to allow you to change cams on a 2V without removing the front cover. The tool basically jams the cam chains in place and prevents them from moving off the crank sprocket while the cams are out.

 

[Night Shifter]

oh gotcha.. thanks!

so being that the pulleys ware off the car what else could be the problem? i went back to the cam installer and asked him too and he said he had them off also

the symptoms before yesterday was a slight miss/stumble @2k or below....cruising was nice and smooth... then yesterday it drove normal, got on the highway did about 75ish got of then stopped at a red light, the after that the car was missing/stumbling at every rpm and at cruise and the CEL was flashing

after work i started the car and it was normal again..pulled out of work went about 10 miles @70 and the car was fine...stopped at a red light then right as i started to go it started stumbling bad again like i was on a dirt road and the check engine light was flashing like mad

 

[Dark_Horse]

Tune

Just a quick suggestion and I'm sure you have already considered this, but if you need a tune you might get with the guys at american muscle. If anything they can give you a downloadable tune for your SCT and at least you will have starting point for the hitechs before you take it to your local dyno. Maybe then you can rule out a problem with the computer. Even if you didn't buy your sct from them, downloadable tunes are like $50 I think???

Not 100% sure but hope that helps anyways

 

[Night Shifter]

i called them a week ago and told them what i had done if they could sent me like a starter type tune to adjust the car a little bit and they said no...thats where i got mine from so i figured id give it a shot

 

[Night Shifter]

ok so we went back over everything pully was taken off and retourqed and is perfect..new plugs are in as well and crankshaft positioning sensor was check and no problems there...cams are also degreed correctly as well..

took the car out for a drive and it seemed a lot smoother and i could go through the gears and dip into the lower rpm levels with no shak or stumble..5 minutes into the ride i hit a section of road that 55mph.. was cruisin in 5th around 2200rpm or so at 60 and it started to stumble... let it roll down to 1800 more stumble...brought it up to 2300 still stumbled...about 2400rpm it gets smooth but anywhere under that it stumbles..not as bad as it was doing before i switched plugs but still there and really effing annoying..so WTF

if i go throught the gears with a lil bit of foot into it, no stumble..WOT, no stumble...is there something else i need to check or could it just be the tune?

 

[scupking]

You need a tune. When my hitechs went in I had a basic tune put on to hold me over a few weeks until I could go to the dyno. Even with the basic tune it would die sometimes at idle and stumble. Once I got dyno tuned everything is good. I would not go WOT until you get a dyno tune.

 

[midnightdriver]

ok so we went back over everything pully was taken off and retourqed and is perfect..new plugs are in as well and crankshaft positioning sensor was check and no problems there...cams are also degreed correctly as well..

took the car out for a drive and it seemed a lot smoother and i could go through the gears and dip into the lower rpm levels with no shak or stumble..5 minutes into the ride i hit a section of road that 55mph.. was cruisin in 5th around 2200rpm or so at 60 and it started to stumble... let it roll down to 1800 more stumble...brought it up to 2300 still stumbled...about 2400rpm it gets smooth but anywhere under that it stumbles..not as bad as it was doing before i switched plugs but still there and really effing annoying..so WTF

if i go throught the gears with a lil bit of foot into it, no stumble..WOT, no stumble...is there something else i need to check or could it just be the tune?

Without the tune your fuel table is probably way off.

Didn't you have your car tuned for a supercharger ?

 

[Night Shifter]

You need a tune. When my hitechs went in I had a basic tune put on to hold me over a few weeks until I could go to the dyno. Even with the basic tune it would die sometimes at idle and stumble. Once I got dyno tuned everything is good. I would not go WOT until you get a dyno tune.

the only reason the car went WOT was cause my installer said "i helped build it and if i break it i pay for it and rebuild it for free" so i was like ok then lol..i figured i needed a tune really bad

Without the tune your fuel table is probably way off.

Didn't you have your car tuned for a supercharger ?

yeah, but i also had the previous tune saved for when i had bolt ons/long tubes so i loaded that tune back in the car.... it does smell really rich though after driving it