Valve stem seals - NEW INFO

Wayne Waldrep

Before I post a pic, do you have one of yours?
15 Year Member
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I have been on one of my typical obsessive searches today since noon. I'm tired of reading. Does anyone have a favorite go-to valve stem seal for stock E7 heads? From my reading today what I'm not looking for is "those non rubber type" or "the newer ones not the umbrella type."
I bet I read a hundred generalized comments like that. I can't look up those non rubber type. I need a part number of whatever you know for a fact fits E7 heads and works great. If I don't get this oil consumption under control I'm very close to going back to the drive a different car mode.
 
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HotFox

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Not specific to the E7's but I prefer the steel bodied ones that have the rubberized inner with a wiper on top with a tension spring. Any good machine shop should have these. But if the guides are shot no quality seal will solve your oil consumption issue.
 

Wayne Waldrep

Before I post a pic, do you have one of yours?
15 Year Member
Apr 14, 2003
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244
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Cuba, AL
Not specific to the E7's but I prefer the steel bodied ones that have the rubberized inner with a wiper on top with a tension spring. Any good machine shop should have these. But if the guides are shot no quality seal will solve your oil consumption issue.
Thanks but I can't look up "valve stem seals with rubberized inner with a wiper on top with a tension spring." Trust me, I just cut and pasted that into google and got nothing. That was my point in my post asking for a part number or link. I'm pretty sure I've looked at every available set from all the companies in the last two days. After looking at them I'm wanting someone who has used said part they always like in this application. We all know part numbers of our go-to parts or have them saved somewhere. That's all I'm needing. I rebuilt the heads when I did this engine a few years ago. I've always let the machine shop do them but two things in this current world....1) there are zero engine building shop anywhere remotely near me 2) I don't trust anybody anymore because people are only looking out for their bottom line and don't value customers...they certainly aren't honest.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHDSNs9wBpU
 

Wayne Waldrep

Before I post a pic, do you have one of yours?
15 Year Member
Apr 14, 2003
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The one thing I'm certain of (i think :cautious: ) is that I want to use seals made of Viton. Every forum I went to, that was emphasized above all else. That and by no means use the umbrella type seals. Sadly no place I looked linked to a part or gave a part number. Summit Racing only shows 3 results for 1988 Ford Mustang GT 5.0L. https://www.summitracing.com/search/year/1988/make/ford/model/mustang/department/gaskets-seals/part-type/valve-stem-seals/engine-size/5-0l-302/engine-family/ford-small-block-windsor?N=4294949549+4294950299+4294951343+4294951333+4294943493
Two of them are umbrella seals. That leaves only choice. What's up with that??? As many of these engines that are built and there's not an overabundance of seals? Surely that's not right.

Update: The only choice Summit shows is also shown on Jegs. Jegs lists that as an umbrella seal while Summit lists it as positive stop. See what kinda crap you have to wade thru just to find a simple part.
 
Last edited:

HotFox

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There is not a universal PN that fits all. Are you 5/16" or 7mm valve stems? Try this?
Goodson

You really need to look at a engine building supply place such as Goodson. Motorstate distributors in Michigan is another supplier for engine parts that I use, not sure where your from they are in Oh, In, Mi only I believe.

You really need the stem diameter and od of the guide. There is possibly a chance that your guides are not machined for press on guides such as this style. If not you will need to pull the heads and cut the guide for this type of seal it they left you enough diameter to machine.
 

Wayne Waldrep

Before I post a pic, do you have one of yours?
15 Year Member
Apr 14, 2003
468
244
63
53
Cuba, AL
There is not a universal PN that fits all. Are you 5/16" or 7mm valve stems? Try this?
Goodson

You really need to look at a engine building supply place such as Goodson. Motorstate distributors in Michigan is another supplier for engine parts that I use, not sure where your from they are in Oh, In, Mi only I believe.

You really need the stem diameter and od of the guide. There is possibly a chance that your guides are not machined for press on guides such as this style. If not you will need to pull the heads and cut the guide for this type of seal it they left you enough diameter to machine.
A stock E7 head is supposed to have 11/32" stems. Why would this not be standard after a million copies have been made? Everything else we order for a stock 5.0L engine is standard. I completely understand if the heads were changed or heavily machined for a specific race application but we are talking stock E7's. How much more bland can you get? I'm in Alabama.
 

HotFox

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Yeah sorry not familiar with the E7's.
Ok then yank a spring and measure the guide if it is .50". If .50" you will be just fine with the Vortec ones on the first page of the link I posted above. Some guides are .450 so be careful there. My concern is they maybe tapered and using a unbrella seal and will not accept a traditional seal without machining or guide replacement.

Also depending what lift you are running it is always good to check retainer and seal clearence during reassembly or at max lift.

I have swapped out solid roller springs on my AFR heads in the car without to much difficulty. Just takes time to do this. Good luck!
 

Wayne Waldrep

Before I post a pic, do you have one of yours?
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Apr 14, 2003
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Cuba, AL
RANT removed to clean this thread up :hide:

I have new info below!!
 
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Wayne Waldrep

Before I post a pic, do you have one of yours?
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Apr 14, 2003
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Cuba, AL
Yeah sorry not familiar with the E7's.
Ok then yank a spring and measure the guide if it is .50". If .50" you will be just fine with the Vortec ones on the first page of the link I posted above. Some guides are .450 so be careful there. My concern is they maybe tapered and using a unbrella seal and will not accept a traditional seal without machining or guide replacement.

Also depending what lift you are running it is always good to check retainer and seal clearence during reassembly or at max lift.

I have swapped out solid roller springs on my AFR heads in the car without to much difficulty. Just takes time to do this. Good luck!
Thanks bud. I can't think right now...see above...lol
 

revhead347

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Seriously guys, just go down the parts store and get some standard replacement valve stem seals by Fel-pro for $15 or whatever. You are beating your heads against the wall for no reason. There are 25 year old SBFs running today without seal leaks with the original rubber seals. It's not the seal, it's the technique. Every time you are installing a new seal, rough up the metal surface on the valve with some 300 grit sand paper. Don't go crazy, just a few passes. It's just enough to change the texture of the metal to get a clean break in.

Kurt
 
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Wayne Waldrep

Before I post a pic, do you have one of yours?
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Well I've learned way more this week than I ever wanted to know about valve stem seals (VSS). I finally called Trick Flow two days ago and they were great to talk to. I also felt better when they too were scratching their heads trying to find someone in the company that knew which seals came on 5.0L engines. Hey, they told me they make a spring kit (linked below) for the E7 head that requires no machining and that the kit includes new VSS. At least that gave me a starting point which allowed me to do more accurate searching and more importantly, finding! Oh, Trick Flow also offers the VSS only and that link is below as well.
So here's the simple answer. You can't look up the E7 head and just flop any seal on there. That's not how those seals are sold. That's why none of my searches using year, make,, model, etc was accurate or working at all. You must have 2 numbers period. Valve stem diameter and valve guide machined diameter. E7 heads from the factory have 11/32" valve stem diameter. The valve guide diameter is .555. That last measurement can change if your guides have been replaced and can only be found by measuring.
Next I grabbed one of my extra E7's which I should have done very first thing and pulled a valve spring off and look what I found.

633406


That's a OEM valve stem seal that has never been off. It's only plain ole rubber. But it expels the myth that I've been told repeatedly this week (even by one Trick Flow guy at first) that the factory used umbrella seals on all E7 heads on the mustang. Good news if you ask me. Now I'm just hoping I don't pull my driver down and it doesn't have machined guides. Next pic...

633407


There is the factory machined guide. As mentioned, it measured .555 with calipers. The VSS are double banded. This allows the lower metal band to stretch a bit with the rubber and then clamp back on the guide surface once installed. The upper band is much smaller but it only puts a firm seal on the valve stem to block oil. You can install these by hand with a drop of oil on the inside of the seal. Brand new ones and Viton seals might need installed with the help of a hammer and install tool or socket. Carefully till they click.

633408


Now my next project since I've figured out what's what is to make a custom tool for taking springs off while on the car. Yes you can buy various store bought ones and I went thru about 4 different designs in CAD before I settled on this one. I like it because once it's cranked down your hands are free to remove the locks. Above I made two 4" studs from 5/16" all thread. I placed a washer under the nut on each and backed the stud out just a tad to keep it from potentially bottoming out when I tighten the tool down.

633409


Here is the final paper template of the tool before I make it from steel. Even after deciding to make it like this I still went thru multiple templates before I was happy with it.

633410


Another view of the template. I'm working on the steel version now and have it almost done. No pics of that yet but they will be coming soon. My goal in all this is to make spring removal in the car very simple and easy. I also don't want to be pulling on a bar trying to compress a spring and at the same time reaching with a magnet to grab the tiny locks that can disappear fast. I take lots of breaks now so a couple of sets and a break then back at it is the way I work.
One last thing for now on the seals is material. Viton is the best material currently in use unless some of the million-dollar supercars have some secret material discovered on Mars that they use. For us....Viton.

A word about Viton from wikipedia:
Viton is a brand of FKM, a synthetic rubber and fluoropolymer elastomer commonly used in O-rings, chemical-resistant gloves, and other molded or extruded goods. The name is a registered trademark of The Chemours Company.

Many thanks to the guys at Trick Flow for their help. I was at a stopping point until talking to them and figuring a few things out. Next up will be the finished valve spring removal tool.

Here are the links to the parts I found. I'm NOT buying the Trick Flow spring kit. I am buying their Viton VSS kit.

link to valve stem seals only:
https://www.trickflow.com/parts/tfs-2500100-vss

Summit Racing link for above:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-2500100-vss/overview/

link to spring upgrade kit with all the specs:
https://www.trickflow.com/parts/tfs-2500100

Summit Racing link for above
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-2500100/overview/
 
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JKWilson61

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Interesting info Wayne. Not to muddy the waters again but here is the style that were on the motor from a '92 SSP 5.0 that I bought wrecked. They are also the same style that was in the Felpro overhaul gasket kit and were used when I put the motor back together. As you can see they are a metal sleeved umbrella with a compression spring around the top
.
dnjvss4113_1__96413__71171.1448149233.jpg
 

Wayne Waldrep

Before I post a pic, do you have one of yours?
15 Year Member
Apr 14, 2003
468
244
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Cuba, AL
Cool. Thanks for the pic John. I forgot to mention the factory one in the pic has a Ford logo and part number made into the top edge of the rubber.
 

96pushrod

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FYI: felpro makes tfs gaskets. I’d be willing to bet that also supply the valve seals.

I’m all for supporting trick flow though, they’ve always been great to deal with.

...but when the felpro are cheaper :D
 
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Noobz347

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Well I've learned way more this week than I ever wanted to know about valve stem seals (VSS). I finally called Trick Flow two days ago and they were great to talk to. I also felt better when they too were scratching their heads trying to find someone in the company that knew which seals came on 5.0L engines. Hey, they told me they make a spring kit (linked below) for the E7 head that requires no machining and that the kit includes new VSS. At least that gave me a starting point which allowed me to do more accurate searching and more importantly, finding! Oh, Trick Flow also offers the VSS only and that link is below as well.
So here's the simple answer. You can't look up the E7 head and just flop any seal on there. That's not how those seals are sold. That's why none of my searches using year, make,, model, etc was accurate or working at all. You must have 2 numbers period. Valve stem diameter and valve guide machined diameter. E7 heads from the factory have 11/32" valve stem diameter. The valve guide diameter is .555. That last measurement can change if your guides have been replaced and can only be found by measuring.
Next I grabbed one of my extra E7's which I should have done very first thing and pulled a valve spring off and look what I found.

633406


That's a OEM valve stem seal that has never been off. It's only plain ole rubber. But it expels the myth that I've been told repeatedly this week (even by one Trick Flow guy at first) that the factory used umbrella seals on all E7 heads on the mustang. Good news if you ask me. Now I'm just hoping I don't pull my driver down and it doesn't have machined guides. Next pic...

633407


There is the factory machined guide. As mentioned, it measured .555 with calipers. The VSS are double banded. This allows the lower metal band to stretch a bit with the rubber and then clamp back on the guide surface once installed. The upper band is much smaller but it only puts a firm seal on the valve stem to block oil. You can install these by hand with a drop of oil on the inside of the seal. Brand new ones and Viton seals might need installed with the help of a hammer and install tool or socket. Carefully till they click.

633408


Now my next project since I've figured out what's what is to make a custom tool for taking springs off while on the car. Yes you can buy various store bought ones and I went thru about 4 different designs in CAD before I settled on this one. I like it because once it's cranked down your hands are free to remove the locks. Above I made two 4" studs from 5/16" all thread. I placed a washer under the nut on each and backed the stud out just a tad to keep it from potentially bottoming out when I tighten the tool down.

633409


Here is the final paper template of the tool before I make it from steel. Even after deciding to make it like this I still went thru multiple templates before I was happy with it.

633410


Another view of the template. I'm working on the steel version now and have it almost done. No pics of that yet but they will be coming soon. My goal in all this is to make spring removal in the car very simple and easy. I also don't want to be pulling on a bar trying to compress a spring and at the same time reaching with a magnet to grab the tiny locks that can disappear fast. I take lots of breaks now so a couple of sets and a break then back at it is the way I work.
One last thing for now on the seals is material. Viton is the best material currently in use unless some of the million-dollar supercars have some secret material discovered on Mars that they use. For us....Viton.

A word about Viton from wikipedia:
Viton is a brand of FKM, a synthetic rubber and fluoropolymer elastomer commonly used in O-rings, chemical-resistant gloves, and other molded or extruded goods. The name is a registered trademark of The Chemours Company.

Many thanks to the guys at Trick Flow for their help. I was at a stopping point until talking to them and figuring a few things out. Next up will be the finished valve spring removal tool.

Here are the links to the parts I found. I'm NOT buying the Trick Flow spring kit. I am buying their Viton VSS kit.

link to valve stem seals only:
https://www.trickflow.com/parts/tfs-2500100-vss

Summit Racing link for above:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-2500100-vss/overview/

link to spring upgrade kit with all the specs:
https://www.trickflow.com/parts/tfs-2500100

Summit Racing link for above
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-2500100/overview/

You should post this as a resource (get mods to help you with this) and list it in the "Useful Technical Thread Index". You can also add those numbers to the "Bolt Thread Index".


Now... where are those moderators? :O_o: