Waterpump Problem

[Cool Wheels]

Thought this would be no sweat. I did my water pump this weekend. But I brought the old one down to the parts store after I noticed a difference between the one they gave me and my old one. The guy read the part number off my old one and brought out an identicle pump that also wasn't right. So I went to another location and the same thing again.

The problem is that the "nose" of the pump (I don't know what else to call it ie. the part that rises off the main flange -kinda looks like a volcano -with the pump flange at the end)...any way the "nose" of the new pump is 3.5 inches long and my old one is 3-1/8th. The "nose" of my water pump pulley is 2 inches. So the result is that the pulley rubs against my crankshaft pulley because there isn't enough clearance.

Would one of you please measure the length of your water pump pulley and let me know? I would be forever grateful well, at least, I'd be appreciative... . It's been a frustrating weekend. I'm wondering if I have some oddball rare type of part from timbuktwo.

I'm calling a parts yard tommorrow. What I don't understand is how it could be the wrong part when it has the same part number. But side by side it is obvious it's wrong

Paul

 

[Addicted_2_II]

Cool Wheels,
See if this helps...

http://www.hampys.com/mustang/DSCN0241.JPG

I can take more pics if you need them!

Errr I just noticed you wanted the "PULLEY Length" sorry that is on the car... Maybe I can take apic tomorrow if you still need to know!

Chad

 

[Cool Wheels]

Thanks Chad.

Yeah, that confirms I got some weird part as an original. Your part is the same as what's sold off the shelves. Where my part came from or why it has the same part number, I don't know.

I'm still curious about the pulley length and diameter even to besure of the correct offset with the new pump. I'm assuming that your pulley nose is at least 2.5 inches (???). It would have to be in order to clear the crankshaft pulley given the height of your waterpump nose.

So I'm going to assume that my old part is wrong, since that's where this is going by deducing it down. I need to find a pulley that fits the right pump, so I'll be calling auto recycler's starting tomorrow.

Thanks again.

 

[THE COBRAMAN]

The 302-powered II uses 2 different pumps, depending on build date. One is approx 3/8" shorter than the other.

What is the part # stamped into your w/p pulley?

If your car isn't original, almost any pully combo could have been swapped in, which will make finding the correct setup difficult.

 

[Cool Wheels]

The number on the pulley is D5ZE-8509-BB.

If there were two types, wouldn't there be 2 numbers?

If there are two types I either have to to find a working pump of the shorter nose type (like my old one) or a pulley that fits the longer nose type (my new one). It's probably easier for me to find a pulley out of a scrapper compared to dealing with parts references that say there is only one number for all (roll with the punches/go with the flow).

 

[Blue Thunder]

Ask the parts guy to look up a 302 truck water pump and see if it's the same as yours. I remember some truck pumps being a different height, for some reason.

 

[THE COBRAMAN]

According to my books, you have a pulley for a 302, without A/C built prior to 10/75. You should need a water pump that interchanges to this Ford part number D5ZZ 8501 A. This went on cars built prior to 3/15/1976.

Later cars use a D6ZZ w/p pulley, either D6ZZ 8509 A for A/C applications, or D6ZZ 8509 B for non-A/C applications. All 302 IIs use the same D5ZZ 6A312 A crank pulley.

 

[Wart]

Paul,

I would say your original pump was either factory or replaced when the factory spec pump was still available.

I don't know if there were pumps from the factory with two different snout flange dimensions, I kind of doubt it but won't argue the point.

I do know my first II ('77~'78 302, 4 gear, no AC) came from the factory with a short snout pump.

I am curious, whats the part number on the pump casting? If it's a D5 number* I would say the entire pump is specific to the II, if it's any other number I'm guessing the pump was a standard part with the flange pressed onto a shorter shaft. (*unless a specific casting was noted by revision number but thats not fords way of part numbering for specific applications.)



Your right, your easiest cure is to find a pulley with the proper offset so the belts line up, happy boneyarding. You may even find one of the same diameter using the same belt.

There is one major bennifit to changing over to the generic ford pump: If you waunder far from home and the pump craps out you'll be able to get another at any of the 'box' auto parts outlets.

{edit} if you could, measure the heitght of the old and new castings noses. I think that information could be handy. {/edit}

 

[Wart]

I wonder what '70Imp would do.

Are rebuild kits still available?

 

[Wart]

According to my books, you have a pulley for a 302, without A/C built prior to 10/75. You should need a water pump that interchanges to this Ford part number D5ZZ 8501 A. This went on cars built prior to 3/15/1976.

Later cars use a D6ZZ w/p pulley, either D6ZZ 8509 A for A/C applications, or D6ZZ 8509 B for non-A/C applications. All 302 IIs use the same D5ZZ 6A312 A crank pulley.

This teaches me not to get distracted while making a post ...

Great information. Thanks.

BTW, which books?

 

[Cool Wheels]

Yeah I know - scrap yard guy said they have a "bin o' 500 pulleys" - Nice afternoon hobby. lol

Ford wants 70 buckeroos for one. Geeeezchh. I can get an aluminum one for that!

When I got the car (75 fastback) at the wise old age of 15 we had two donor cars - A 74 Maverick (actually we just had the engine) and a white II coup that had been smushed. Unfortunately, being a kid, I didn't take my tutorship as seriously as I wish I had now.

But I know that the engine is a Maverick 302. Now I know from Cobraman that it was from a car w/o AC, so if the pulley thing don't work I'll use that part # to get a new pump.

With all the doomed hulls I've scavenged I've been thinking for a while about dubbing her "Frankenstang"

Thanks for the clarity everyone.

 

[THE COBRAMAN]

More thoughts..

I can't believe they are trying to select the pump by casting #. It would seem likely that the 2 pumps would use the same casting, with a longer shaft, since we're talking about a reatively minor difference.

Mavericks didn't use the II-numbered pullies, they used other carline part #s.

Odds of finding a w/p pulley with the correct depth AND diameter are a long shot, IMO. You have the right pulley, you just need the correct pump.

A GOOD parts store should be able to cross-reference the OE number to whatever line they carry to get the correct pump.

Wart, the numbers in the post came out of a Mitchell guide. I just didn't feel like going and digging out the fiche and reader this time around.

I have been through this whole pulley/damper mess before (car had some "creative" parts swapping in it's past, due to using early crank/damper combos. It even had a 454 chev crank pulley :gasp: on it. It's all II now, though) , and the numbers posted did check out with my Ford fiche. In fact, that's how I selected the parts in use now.

Seems like the last original pump I removed was a D5Z part, but I won't swear to it.

Here's a quick reference: Looks like the 58219 reman pump is offered by most online places at 5.35" long, and the 58212 is 5.7"

The '75-early '76 pump http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=58219

The "late" pump http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=58212+01

Cardone is the reman supplier on these numbers, I believe. Both are available at the local chain stores.

The great thing about II ownership...you get to learn to be your own parts guy.

 

[Cool Wheels]

Just an update: I picked up a late model pulley to see if it would clear my crankshaft pulley when connected to the late model waterpump I installed (and am having trouble with). It didn't work. The pulley is the same as the 75 type, which means the pump rod length changed AND so did the measure of proudness from which the crankshaft pulley sits off the engine in the 76's and up.

If anyone with a 75 (especially if you have a 74 mav engine) has a similar problem someday, there you go! Don't waste time with the pulley - it's the same.

Napa seems to have their stuff together so I'm trying to get the right pump. But I have to wait for it to arrive. Ho hum. Love driving the girlfriends car. She has "butterfly seat covers".