400hp with a stock cam...believe it or not?

[smoken44]

This has probably been rehashed here before..... anyone read the write up in july 2003 car craft where they pulled 400+ hp out of a stock 91 roller camed 302 set up with AFR 165 cc heads?

For those that didnt heres the low down.

Stock 91 5.0 short block....forged pistons, roller cam...just freshened up with new rings / bearings
AFR 165cc alum heads.......60 cc 1.90 I..... 1.60 E out of the box PN 1472 emis legal works with stock pistons
Weiand stealth dual plane / 625 cfm road demon jr
Dougs headers tri Y 1 5/8 to 1 3/4
Stock 1.6.1 stamped rockers then switched to Comp cam 1.7.1 rockers

With stock rockers produced 382hp at 6000rpm and 368lb-ft of tq at 4200rpm

Then they swaped in the 1.7.1 rockers which would increase effective lift and duration without comprimising the driveability of the mild stock cam.
Cam specs for F1ZE 1.6.1 .445in I / E.......1.7.1 .473in I / E
Duration intake 276 deg at .006-in-lift....exhaust 266 at .006-in-lift

1.7.1 rockers ....405hp at 6200rpm and 380lb-ft of torque at 4300rpm

The torque curve was above 350ft-lb's from 3500rpm all the way to 6000...hp was a steady climb from (190hp) 3000 all the way to (405) 6200

Are the AFR heads that kick ass??? A reputable engine builder in the area said there was no way you could get that kind of horsepower with a stock 5.0 cam. Said it was CC trying to sell AFR heads.

Anybody have any experience with this??? Would be a (cheap....) killer combo if you could.

 

[Dean85GT]

Oh my....That article has been posted on here about 1000 times. There seems to be alot of guys on here running those heads. After I save up enough cash I'm going to be building up a motor very similar to that combo.

 

[bimmertech]

those numbers where prolly on an engine dyno with electric w/p, no accy, no muffs. in a car with a stick it would prolly see around 275 at the tires.

 

[smoken44]

Oh my....That article has been posted on here about 1000 times.

I figured it probably had been.......so maybe 75-100 hp over the stock heads? Not to shabby......

 

[Killer50stang]

Agreed! There are no mods to the car but heads. 400 hp at the wheels would be a different story. This combo won't pull but maybe a little under 300

 

[aleborjas]

AIR FLOW RESEARCH HEADS RuLeS!!!!!!!!!
(AFR)

 

[tmoss]

Carb cars make more power too........

 

[86pwrhse]

Hello. I have read that posting of 400 hp as well and i am on a tight budget aswell but i have found Patriot heads and they seem to have better flow rate. I will not achieve 400 but i believe that it will get me over 350 at my altitude. any suggestions and personal experiances?? let me know.

 

[strtrcr50]

Hello. I have read that posting of 400 hp as well and i am on a tight budget aswell but i have found Patriot heads and they seem to have better flow rate. I will not achieve 400 but i believe that it will get me over 350 at my altitude. any suggestions and personal experiances?? let me know.

Some here have had good luck with them. I personally looked at them for a little while. Ended up getting twisted wedges.
Patriot Freedom pictures - Hardcore 5.0 - The Mustang Drag Racers Forum
Corral Forums - View Single Post - Patriot Freedom Series Heads ?
Corral Forums - View Single Post - Patriot Freedom Series Heads ?
As with everything, take it with a grain of salt. My opinion is to look around for a used set of TF or AFR.

 

[5spd GT]

It is nothing more than an engine on an engine dyno with no accessories, which could be roughly 30% of power not accounted for (no drivetrain or belt driven accessories).

EFI vs. CARB are very close. EFI will eventually surpass CARB in top level racing, once R&D cost drop.

 

[Bullitt95]

I have a printout of that Car Craft magazine article. Outputs of 405hp @ 6200rpm and 380lbft @ 4300rpm are unrealistically high for a stock-cammed set-up.
No doubt the engine would have been run with an electric water pump, no accessories, and high octane gas, so that would make a substantial difference. I'd also highly question the 23hp/12lbft gain from 1.7 roller rockers.

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

If guys like Robin Lawrence can put down 330ish to the wheels with a stock cam, considering how limited they are in their parts selection, i would think if you went with a big inch small block stroker and the right heads and intake that it's entirely possible to do with a stock cam especially if you allow 1.72 rockers in the equation.

 

[tmoss]

If guys like Robin Lawrence can put down 330ish to the wheels with a stock cam......

Is that a 100% stock cam or a cam with stock "specs"?

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Is that a 100% stock cam or a cam with stock "specs"?

Well, i guess it's sort of a play on words isn't it? Stock specs or literally out of a stock engine? What's the difference? I know i've heard of people profiling 100s of stock cams to get the pick of the litter since there are factory differences that can be pretty significant if you luck out and find the right one. Anyways i think it's "stock specs" and the cam can be made by anyone as long as the lift/duration/lsa etc are all "stock". It's kinda splitting hairs...either way it's still a very small and mild cam to be making the power that they make.

 

[Wallzy]

10-16-05 06:59 PM
tmoss Carb cars make more power too........

I'm not sure i understand your logic here.

Walz

 

[tmoss]

I'm not sure i understand your logic here.

Walz

They typically make more peak HP than an EFI as they have less restricted inlets.

 

[Wallzy]

Today 11:11 AM
tmoss Quote:

They typically make more peak HP than an EFI as they have less restricted inlets.

I do not agree with your statement, carbs work on vacuum to meter their fuel, they intentionally design restriction into them in order to do their best at metering fuel. An EFI is a lot less restricted than a carb setup for this reason - on top of that metering/controlling the AF and timing can be a lot more precise/optimal which will produce more HP.

I will agree that it is a lot less expensive to produce more HP with a carb than an EFI setup because of limitations of the factory equipment and costs of equipment/components to upgrade.

Walz

 

[tmoss]

you don't have to agree. take a look at a lot of data, both dyno and track as well as what racers are running (and I mean teams with enough money to run either) and the fact is indisputable. On the whole, carbs make more peak power. You may be able to cite some instances where boosted or non-N/A cars make similar power. Do you really think that a 1,000 cfm carb is "restricted"? Yes, they meter fuel from a vacuumm signal produced by a venturi - that's hardly a restriction.

 

[5spd GT]

I promise you that once the big dogs in the NHRA and NASCAR can afford the extremely extensive R&D cost, they will go EFI. Just watch over the next 5-10 years.

Because a budget is large, does not mean that they can afford everything.

 

[mavmavv]

400 flywheel HP sounds reasonable with no accessories.

Start bolting that engine up to a trans then put all the street car accessories on there and you will prolly be down to low 300s at the wheels.