how much power possible with Ported E7s?

[bdazzstang]

I have a 89 LX. It is the stock motor with 70mm TB, 24lb injectors, typhoon upper and lower, cold air intake, mac shorty headers, flowmasters, with 2 1/2 inch pipes and no smog pump or a/c. It also has 4.10 gears and an aluminum driveshaft among other things. The car makes good power, but I want more. Im gonna spray it soon, but before that i was thinking about having the heads worked. How much power can I make with the stock heads if I have them worked? I wanna know if it will be worth the money. I will also put roller rockers on it if I get the heads done. Lemme get some opinions!! LOL thanks everyone for your feedback

 

[ECU5.0]

www.thumperoforangepark.com

i think hes got some numbers on his site. hes the man to talk to>>thumper460

 

[Highbredcloud]

A properly worked E7 heads will make good power especially in the down low since the size of them won't go anywhere near 140cc so velocity will be maintained especially with those 4.10's...With a good cam and the rest of the setup you should be at least at 260RWHP and might get up to around 280RWHP if the heads are really good along with the rest of the setup...I am currently researching a new combo using stock components...I will update everyone when I am done with my homework...

 

[stang22]

With a good setup and a good custom cam, I would venture to say between 350-400HP. You can make good HP with Thumpers heads. I just got mine in the mail last week, waiting for my engine builder to finish the machining so he can slap them on. I saved money by putting Thumpers heads on so I could focus on the rest of my setup. For what I do, 300-320 HP will be just fine. My engine will be completely new, from intake to oil pan... to include every sensor. I am excited!!!



Tim

 

[Highbredcloud]

With a good setup and a good custom cam, I would venture to say between 350-400HP. You can make good HP with Thumpers heads. I just got mine in the mail last week, waiting for my engine builder to finish the machining so he can slap them on. I saved money by putting Thumpers heads on so I could focus on the rest of my setup. For what I do, 300-320 HP will be just fine. My engine will be completely new, from intake to oil pan... to include every sensor. I am excited!!!



Tim

I hope you are talking 300-320 at the flywheel...no way you'll get that to the wheels unless you have some crazy big cam...350-400 is 300-340RWHP...where do you base your numbers at?

 

[stang22]

I hope you are talking 300-320 at the flywheel...no way you'll get that to the wheels unless you have some crazy big cam...350-400 is 300-340RWHP...where do you base your numbers at?

I would be elated to get 300 FWHP with my new setup... before the blower. I have heard of 15-20% loss from the FW the rear, but a 60 HP loss on a motor making 400FWHP? That just seems a little high to me. What year Caddy are you putting that motor in?

To qoute Thumpers exact words... "With a custom cam and a good CARB, ported E7's should get you between 400-420FWHP". Granted, that is not on a stock lower end either. To me, his word is stone. He knows heads and cams for sure! I am not going carb and my cam certainly is not that big.

When I put my motor back in, I will of hoped to lose between 300-350lbs of total weight. That makes a huge difference.

 

[cleanLX]

I've not seen a set of thumper heads, so, take this for what it's worth... whatever... I've not seen a set of thumper heads (on the internet) make the hp the flow numbers indicate they are capable of...

Several people have made over 300hp/320tq at the wheels N/A EFI with worked E7's, shelf cam, and stock lifters. Most seem to be useing Powerheads or locally ported heads.
Thro a custom hydro cam at it and 320hp/330tq is not out of the question, custom flat tappet or solid roller at it and 350 at the wheels is not out of reach.
Forget drivability and fuel consumption and... well... super stock guys are making well over 425 with 140cc heads... that over 375hp at the wheels thru a t5.
economical... no.

 

[iluvcars]

for reasonable head porting check out greg @ www.xsrcylinderheads.com

 

[stang22]

That sounds about right, I definately agree with you. My car will probably never see a track or a dyno, so I am really not worried about the "numbers". I wanted a good, strong, reliable, streetable setup. You have to build with goals in mind, and that is exactly what I am doing. I could of put a 347 in it, with a nice set of aluminum heads and made some serious HP, but I want something streetable. When I am finished with my car, just about everything will have been upgraded or replaced.

Tim

 

[25thmustang]

I have seen cars running in the low 12s and should be high 11s on UNPORTED e7s and stock cam...

A set of ported ones with all the other good parts, on a built bottem end, custom cam, and all the supporting mods, I could see well over 300rwhp. Granted you lose a lot of streetability running a huge cam, and high compression, but it can be done!

 

[Highbredcloud]

To achieve the numbers mentioned above you really need a BIG camshaft...In order to keep the car streetable I really can't see stock E7 heads making more than 280RWHP...Oh well I will soon let you guys know how I do with the stock part setup...

 

[sleeper89]

I have heard of 15-20% loss from the FW the rear, but a 60 HP loss on a motor making 400FWHP? That just seems a little high to me.

FWIW -> 400hp - 15% = 340hp

-steve

 

[stang22]

FWIW -> 400hp - 15% = 340hp

-steve

There has to be a cut-off though. My car with 1000HP is not going to lose 150HP through the drive train. There are a lot of things to factor in. I would think that the HP loss of an engine making 250FWHP and an engine making 1000FWHP would remain constant, or the same throughout. This could make for a really good discussion thread...

A section of an article from Superstangs.com;

Lee Bender of C&L Performance and Paul Svinicki of Paul's High Performance are both well versed in evaluating Mustangs on the dyno, and they both agreed that extrapolating drivertrain horsepower loss via percentages is flawed. Lee believes that the stick Mustangs experience roughly a 35hp loss through the drivetrain, whether they make 200 hp or 400 hp. He did explain that ultra-high-powered vehicles - typically race cars - can be and exception to this rule, but that's a topic for another time. Interestingly, a 35hp loss for stick-shifted drivetrains is strikingly similar to the difference between Ford's horsepower ratings and the rear-wheel numbers we've observed on dynos across the nation. Hmmm...

 

[Gearbanger 101]

To achieve the numbers mentioned above you really need a BIG camshaft...In order to keep the car streetable I really can't see stock E7 heads making more than 280RWHP.

Nothing a decent bolt-on supercharger can't make up for. That'll bring the 280RWHP mark up quite a bit and still keep it streetable.

 

[sleeper89]

There has to be a cut-off though. My car with 1000HP is not going to lose 150HP through the drive train. There are a lot of things to factor in. I would think that the HP loss of an engine making 250FWHP and an engine making 1000FWHP would remain constant, or the same throughout. This could make for a really good discussion thread...

A section of an article from Superstangs.com;

Lee Bender of C&L Performance and Paul Svinicki of Paul's High Performance are both well versed in evaluating Mustangs on the dyno, and they both agreed that extrapolating drivertrain horsepower loss via percentages is flawed. Lee believes that the stick Mustangs experience roughly a 35hp loss through the drivetrain, whether they make 200 hp or 400 hp. He did explain that ultra-high-powered vehicles - typically race cars - can be and exception to this rule, but that's a topic for another time. Interestingly, a 35hp loss for stick-shifted drivetrains is strikingly similar to the difference between Ford's horsepower ratings and the rear-wheel numbers we've observed on dynos across the nation. Hmmm...

you make a good argument, and i don't have factual evidence to back anything up on my end, so....let's get a thread going. i'd really like to find out the truth about drivetrain loss.

-steve

 

[cleanLX]

To achieve the numbers mentioned above you really need a BIG camshaft...In order to keep the car streetable I really can't see stock E7 heads making more than 280RWHP...Oh well I will soon let you guys know how I do with the stock part setup...

tfs stage 1 cam is not a big cam, neither is an F cam, I know of 2 powerheaded stock short block 5.0's that have dyno'd over 300hp useing those cams.
i now have ported E7's, and a custom cam... all the models say it'll make over 300 at the wheels, it idles at 750, does not surge, does not lurch/buck at parking lot speeds and actuates the stock hydro. lifters... with 533 lift and 270dur it is by no means a big cam. Alas, no track or dyno numbers yet.

 

[Highbredcloud]

tfs stage 1 cam is not a big cam, neither is an F cam, I know of 2 powerheaded stock short block 5.0's that have dyno'd over 300hp useing those cams.
i now have ported E7's, and a custom cam... all the models say it'll make over 300 at the wheels, it idles at 750, does not surge, does not lurch/buck at parking lot speeds and actuates the stock hydro. lifters... with 533 lift and 270dur it is by no means a big cam. Alas, no track or dyno numbers yet.

I don't know about that...was it your car that dynoed at 300RWHP with powerheads and either of the cams? Did you see it with you own two eyes? I have ported GT-40X heads and ported GT-40 intake and an FTI cam and I just came shy of 300RWHP...given the fact that it was untuned but still comparing my setup to powerheads and an OTS cam...makes me question...what sort of intake was used with the powerheads combo? Currently I am looking to setup some stock part combo using powerheads and stock ported intake and possibly an FTI cam...I doubt I will make anything close to 300RWHP maybe 280 if I am lucky...Or maybe I am just under-estimating the potential of my setup...

 

[Highbredcloud]

Nothing a decent bolt-on supercharger can't make up for. That'll bring the 280RWHP mark up quite a bit and still keep it streetable.

yes that's true but power-adders don't count...

 

[cleanLX]

I don't know about that...was it your car that dynoed at 300RWHP with powerheads and either of the cams? Did you see it with you own two eyes? I have ported GT-40X heads and ported GT-40 intake and an FTI cam and I just came shy of 300RWHP...given the fact that it was untuned but still comparing my setup to powerheads and an OTS cam...makes me question...what sort of intake was used with the powerheads combo? Currently I am looking to setup some stock part combo using powerheads and stock ported intake and possibly an FTI cam...I doubt I will make anything close to 300RWHP maybe 280 if I am lucky...Or maybe I am just under-estimating the potential of my setup...

Did not see it with my own eyes, mearly going by what I've been told. I question'd both people as I had a hard time believing it as well. Both assured me the numbers were real.
Both folks had ported cobra intakes 24lb injectors and that is all I remember. likely electric fans... honestly don't know.
My stocker makes 235hp/292tq at the wheels (~130cfm intake, ~160cfm E7's, stock cam)... switching to a combo that pulls a tad over 200cfm thru it (intakes and heads) with a better cam... I guess it's believable... especially with a custom cam.
Lets not forget your fti cam is likely not meant to be a dyno queen putting out neat peak numbers... it likely makes a tonne more average power than the shelf combos I referenced.
Also, my custom cam while not big, is not meant to do a whole lot below 3000rpm, thanks to 140cc heads, it still makes a tonne of low end power, but the cam was not designed with this as critical criteria(sp?).

 

[Highbredcloud]

Did not see it with my own eyes, mearly going by what I've been told. I question'd both people as I had a hard time believing it as well. Both assured me the numbers were real.
Both folks had ported cobra intakes 24lb injectors and that is all I remember. likely electric fans... honestly don't know.
My stocker makes 235hp/292tq at the wheels (~130cfm intake, ~160cfm E7's, stock cam)... switching to a combo that pulls a tad over 200cfm thru it (intakes and heads) with a better cam... I guess it's believable... especially with a custom cam.
Lets not forget your fti cam is likely not meant to be a dyno queen putting out neat peak numbers... it likely makes a tonne more average power than the shelf combos I referenced.
Also, my custom cam while not big, is not meant to do a whole lot below 3000rpm, thanks to 140cc heads, it still makes a tonne of low end power, but the cam was not designed with this as critical criteria(sp?).

How did you get 235/292tq at the wheel with stock heads, cam intake? That's really impressive if you only have bolt ons...I know that Ed's cams aren't dyno queens but the cam is not small by any matters at least by my standards...I am also building up a second combo for my daily driver consisting from powerheads, stock upper, systemax 1 lower, and most likely an FTI cam along with the rest of the bolt ons...Honestly I am not expecting to go over 280RWHP simply because stock mustangs dyno between 190-200RWHP...the heads alone as according to powerheads add 38RWHP but I can't account for the rest of the setup since the peak HP were probably tested on a high HP motor...Are you also building up a a setup consisting of powerheads? Whose custom cam are you going with? just curious to see as I am doing the same thing...It would be nice if the results netted me 300RWHP but I just can't see it...on a stock bottom end 302...