5.4 or 4.6 for my new drag car?
- Thread starter Drew1287
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Hey man no problem, I get where you guys are comming from, but before I started playing with my stang I had one of the fastest 3.0 rangers out there. I hated/loved building ever part and spending tons of time and money on something that never works, thats why its great having someone like you around Al. I read most of your post and ALL of them are very informative. My question though is I am looking for a street car that is fully made for the track. I want low 12s high 11s. I am currently running a 12+psi boosted 4.6 with full headwork, comp cams, water/methahol injection, and pretty much every drag componet. BEFORE the heads cams and upping the boost the car went 12.77 and now I cant get in into the 12s again. I am so tired of all of this damn parts having to work together, the motor went from simple to complicated and I just cant keep everything working, SOMTHING IS ALWAYS BREAKING! I dont have a problem with n/a, I just wanna know what to build, should I go 4.6 or would a 5.4 2V be the way to go? PLEASE give me some info on what motor to build and I will build it JUST like you say. I trust ya man!
Forged 4.6L and 5.4L connecting rods, as well as their billet counterparts can be purchased for the same price nearly anywhere, same with pistons. That takes care of the bottom end of a “built” 5.4L, since we all know that Granatelli/Haywood have used the stock forged crank past 1600hp. The top end of this mystery motor will have to undergo the same mods a smaller 4.6L would to sustain higher rpms. Never mind the fact that a 5.4L motor (by its larger nature) doesn’t have to rev as high as a 4.6L to make the same amount of hp, however it can rev to 7500-8000rpm reliably with said components. 4.165” is still shorter than a 454 Chevy stroke by a long shot, and I’ve seen those rev to 8k all day with only forged rods. Also, extra torque can help accelerate a car the entire trip down the track, not just on launch. In any case I fail to see how extra torque is anything less than wholly desirable with regard to modular motors period. Just line up next to him and see the difference yourself or show me a 4.6L N/A motor making over 520rwhp/430rwtq…Something tells me you’ll pass on both.
ROTFLMMFAO!!!
I’ve got to ask, who the **** are you and how many IHRA engine builder of the year awards have you won? The sweat that just rolled off Al’s left nut contains more automotive knowledge than you could imagine attaining in a lifetime. I suppose you could assemble a stock (untouched heads, stock cams, stock untouched intake, etc.) 281CI pump gas Modular N/A 4v motor that makes 357/337 to the wheels? How about a 1.5L two valve OHC bike motor that makes well over 3HP per cubic inch naturally aspirated? Can you even rebuild a shortblock? Didn't think so.
Bottom Line for those who are hard of hearing: A 5.4L 4v can/will make more power than a 4.6L version.
Al is as honest and hard working a guy as I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. He has “given up the goods” with regard to free tech info more than any other respected modular racer I can remember in recent memory. If you’re seeking an answer that he’s not willing to divulge it’s for good reason—he’s a competitive racer. Do you realize that if you hired Billy Glidden to build a race motor you would never know the cam specs of your own engine?
Parts/parts breakage (R&D) isn’t cheap ladies and gentlemen, you’ve got to pay to play.
Bwahahahahahaha. There are a couple of really funny people here.
kirkyg, you and CuddaWuddaShuda need to go get a room at the local Super 8 Motel and start filming. I here there's lots of money in those kind of homegrown films.
Drew...your goals are not real hard to achieve. There are many ways to go about it, but one suggestion would be a 4.6 4V swap (cheap, relatively easy). Keep in N/A. You can go from mild to wild - stock Mach 1 or 99/01 motor if money is an issue, something a bit more extravagent if you have dollars. Get the weight out of the car, and put a decent suspension underneath it. Get a slick-shifting G-Force equipped T5, some 4.56 gears, practice, and run 11s all day long.
kirkyg, you and CuddaWuddaShuda need to go get a room at the local Super 8 Motel and start filming. I here there's lots of money in those kind of homegrown films.
Drew...your goals are not real hard to achieve. There are many ways to go about it, but one suggestion would be a 4.6 4V swap (cheap, relatively easy). Keep in N/A. You can go from mild to wild - stock Mach 1 or 99/01 motor if money is an issue, something a bit more extravagent if you have dollars. Get the weight out of the car, and put a decent suspension underneath it. Get a slick-shifting G-Force equipped T5, some 4.56 gears, practice, and run 11s all day long.
Well the actual parts arent very expensive but the little things add up. What turned me off the most about the 5.4 swap was the taller deck height and the fact I would have to buy a set of custom headers.
I hate the little things that make upgrades a hassle.
I hate the little things that make upgrades a hassle.
Drew1287 said:
First things first..are you sure it is running good (Dyno after heads/cams/more boost)
What were the 60'/330' numbers before after?
It's common to go backwards with more power if your chassis is unable to deal with the extra power. The result.. more spin and lost ET. ( there lots of 400+ hp blown GT's that can't get past mid 12's)
What is your chassis/tire set up?
kirkyg
Founding Member
Cussing and screaming explains nothing but there are alot of people here that have nothing better to say. I wish i still had archived the two emails i got back from boss when i first was inquiring about some things i thought were questionable about the swap.
Basically he portrays everything to be so simple for the swap and tries to get you to go through him to provide the engine when you start asking questions. But when he is on the boards he acts like all he wants to do is help you which is a total crock of crap.
I'm sure many of you have seen the 5.4L DOHC swap pics and posts from that purple DOHC guy. He ran into the same crap with Al. I really dont care what kinda cuss words you want to throw at me to try and make yourselves look good i stand by the fact that Al is trying to make money off this and thats ALL he cares about...so we might as well see him for his true colors.
kirkyg
Basically he portrays everything to be so simple for the swap and tries to get you to go through him to provide the engine when you start asking questions. But when he is on the boards he acts like all he wants to do is help you which is a total crock of crap.
I'm sure many of you have seen the 5.4L DOHC swap pics and posts from that purple DOHC guy. He ran into the same crap with Al. I really dont care what kinda cuss words you want to throw at me to try and make yourselves look good i stand by the fact that Al is trying to make money off this and thats ALL he cares about...so we might as well see him for his true colors.
kirkyg
Kirkyg....you ever met Al? I doubt it, seeing as you likely race little more than your keyboard. That being the case, you are totally clueless about the man. He probably told you like it was. You wanted to hear something rosie, and didn't like it.
You're in South Texas? I have a recommendation for you. Go look up a guy named SD Wheeler. Does fabulous work. Very reputable. Low cost, quick turnaround. Stand up guy. Quite literally the EXACT OPPOSITE of Al. Should be just the hookup you're looking for.
Let me know if you need contact info - I'll hook you up.
You're in South Texas? I have a recommendation for you. Go look up a guy named SD Wheeler. Does fabulous work. Very reputable. Low cost, quick turnaround. Stand up guy. Quite literally the EXACT OPPOSITE of Al. Should be just the hookup you're looking for.
Let me know if you need contact info - I'll hook you up.
I would seriously consider brushing up on your reading comprehension before replying again. I never said it was the same price to build a 454 as it would be a 5.4L mod motor. I said a 454 has a longer stroke and can rev just as high, despite its ancient OHV architechture and design; for less money and with comparable parts.
You can't dispute facts Mogs.
I'm not sure why you used the word "fact" when you openly admit to having zero evidence to prove your "theory".
Off topic, since when did Professional Motorsports become a non-profit industry? Mechanics need to feed their families too--Al's labor rates for rebuilds are ridiculously low. I guess when you start making enough HP to break parts you'll find that out for yourself, until then you're just another talking *******.
I read what you posted. I said it would be more expensive and you said "WHY" implying that it would be less or equal to. If I need to work on my reading comprehension, then you need to learn what terms to use when trying to type your point into a computer screen.Fourcam281 said:I would seriously consider brushing up on your reading comprehension before replying again. I never said it was the same price to build a 454 as it would be a 5.4L mod motor. I said a 454 has a longer stroke and can rev just as high, despite its ancient OHV architechture and design; for less money and with comparable parts.
You can't dispute facts Mogs.
For the final time:
A) Forged con. rods/pistons for chevy's are dirt cheap by comparison to modular parts.
B) Many chevy 454s have run safely to 8,000rpm with forged internals--with a longer stroke than a 5.4L I might add.
So...
If A and B are true, and they are, why is it so hard for you to understand that rebuilding a forged OHV chevy motor capable of running to 8k is cheaper than rebuilding a Modular Ford??? If you send me your address I'll scribble it on some green construction paper with some crayolas, will that help?
A) Forged con. rods/pistons for chevy's are dirt cheap by comparison to modular parts.
B) Many chevy 454s have run safely to 8,000rpm with forged internals--with a longer stroke than a 5.4L I might add.
So...
If A and B are true, and they are, why is it so hard for you to understand that rebuilding a forged OHV chevy motor capable of running to 8k is cheaper than rebuilding a Modular Ford??? If you send me your address I'll scribble it on some green construction paper with some crayolas, will that help?
Forged? I would think you can rev the 5.4 to 6.5k with a SOHC head and stock parts without any problems if properly setup. Its not like its producing a hell of a lot more power.
I guess we/I should specify what kind of setups we were talking about.Ohh and good job with that attitude. I guess what most people say about the DOHC motor guys are true, or is it the internet tough guy act? Im pretty sure I have met you at Norwalk, so good job on the internet thug life. Real cool.
Atleast Mr. Cosby has the right attitude.
I guess we/I should specify what kind of setups we were talking about.Ohh and good job with that attitude. I guess what most people say about the DOHC motor guys are true, or is it the internet tough guy act? Im pretty sure I have met you at Norwalk, so good job on the internet thug life. Real cool.
Atleast Mr. Cosby has the right attitude.
tjm73 said:
I have to agree with TLM73 %100.
The 351 fits in our engine bay, parts are alot cheaper and the work is easier to do unless you are eal familiar with the modular. I am looki to do a 351 based set next year instead of adding to my motor now. You also said you want to spray a 150 shot, if you get the right set up you should be able to spray a 2 stage 250 shot. My friend has been spraying that shot on a 351 based engine for about 2 years and he's running in the 9's. If you want to use it on the street turn the giggle gas and you are fine, with the exception of the cost of race gas.
Just remember whatever you decide explore all your options modular or not.
id say drop in the 351, unless u just gotta stay modular. Granted i dont know as much about this stuff as many people in this thread but i just love seeing stangs with larger displacement engines, love seeing what happens to gm cars when we actually have the same size engine. anyway thats my $.02
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