Junkyard 351c's or w's??

[Aliate X]

Hey guys I did the search thing all last night, found a lot, but still have this question.

I have decided to go N/A after seeing a 347 stroker all motor 5.0 last night totally anniliate a twin turbo car.

Well I decided to go with a 351, and later on a 351 based stroker, or maybe do the 408 right now. First of all, I was guessing that I should get the block/shortblock w/e from a junkyard. This engine will be seeing no poweradders.

What vechicle should I be looking for to pull a 351w or c out of? I dont think you can get the clevlands anymore correct? I hear they are better.

Btw, Im ordering a fuel pump today, will a regular BBK pump work with the carbed 408 later on?

Any info would be greatly appriciated.

 

[tjm73]

First things first. Stay away from the Clevelands! They are great motors, but not practical withwhat is available in the aftermarket today. They have their own quirks too.

Any 351W will work they are virtually all the same. Look for F150/250/350 trucks, police package Crown Victoria's, and if they yard has them mid-late 70's full size cars.

The best 351W if you can score one comes from mid 94 and up. It's aroller cam engine.

 

[Aliate X]

First things first. Stay away from the Clevelands! They are great motors, but not practical withwhat is available in the aftermarket today. They have their own quirks too.

Any 351W will work they are virtually all the same. Look for F150/250/350 trucks, police package Crown Victoria's, and if they yard has them mid-late 70's full size cars.

The best 351W if you can score one comes from mid 94 and up. It's aroller cam engine.

Well Im going to be tearing down the motor and giving the block to an engine builder anyways. So I guess any 351w from a pickup truck would work? Or the crown vic if I can find one.

 

[Aliate X]

Also how big of a cowl would I need to fit the 351 under the hood? God the more I think about this the more excited I get.

 

[hllon4whls]

Dirtracer will surely chime in here.

A clevland stroker can be built for a similar price to a W. If you get 4v heads, they flow like a fire hose (maybe too much).

You can buy a sportsman block new or try to find a 69-74 351 W. They will all be 2 bolt mains. Try trucks, crown vics, mercs, lincolns, etc from that time frame.

Take a look at the 351 swap sticky because the swap items add to the cost.

 

[nmcgrawj]

Unless you stroke that 351...which u mentioned....its gonna get outrun by the 347. I was told with the same parts...the 347 will even outrun the 408. Ofcourse if u upgrade the h/c/i for the 408 its a different story.

I just didnt know if u planned on doing a h/c/i now...and then again for the stroked 408. Just remember that all that extra rotating mass will slow that thing down and it wont rev nearly as quick as a 347.

 

[mackey]

Unless you stroke that 351...which u mentioned....its gonna get outrun by the 347. I was told with the same parts...the 347 will even outrun the 408. Ofcourse if u upgrade the h/c/i for the 408 its a different story.

I just didnt know if u planned on doing a h/c/i now...and then again for the stroked 408. Just remember that all that extra rotating mass will slow that thing down and it wont rev nearly as quick as a 347.

Sorry, but a 408 with the same parts will outrun a 347... The point to the part of a 347 with the same top end as the 351 is that the 351w weighs more. If it is a 408 vs a 347 with the same parts the 347 has no chance. You know higher revs don't always mean more power unless you live in a honda world. A well built 351 could rev to only 6000 and still dismantle alot of the 347's out there no problem. You don't need a quick revving car. You need a powerful car with a powerband that you stay in. If you race the car and the powerband is from 2500-6000 vs the 347 which is 4000-7000 The 351 will reach the powerband at the same time.

The 351w vs the 347 and the 347 being faster is because of the weight. you can also overbore the 351 and keep on working with it.

Good choice on the 351. Make sure you get some well flowing heads, a large cam, and a large intake. Oh yea. 408s/418s are awesome!

 

[nmcgrawj]

Sorry, but a 408 with the same parts will outrun a 347... The point to the part of a 347 with the same top end as the 351 is that the 351w weighs more. If it is a 408 vs a 347 with the same parts the 347 has no chance. You know higher revs don't always mean more power unless you live in a honda world. A well built 351 could rev to only 6000 and still dismantle alot of the 347's out there no problem. You don't need a quick revving car. You need a powerful car with a powerband that you stay in. If you race the car and the powerband is from 2500-6000 vs the 347 which is 4000-7000 The 351 will reach the powerband at the same time.

The 351w vs the 347 and the 347 being faster is because of the weight. you can also overbore the 351 and keep on working with it.

Good choice on the 351. Make sure you get some well flowing heads, a large cam, and a large intake. Oh yea. 408s/418s are awesome!

How is a "well built" 351 gonna dismantle a 347 unless u are talking about in that "building" process stroking it too?

You know what, i thought the same thing as you once until i talked about it with guys who have seen the combos run faster and slower. Have you seen a 351 package run on top of a 347? Do u know the result? Have you seen a 408 with the same exact parts as that 351 or 347 run? If not then you are talking based off of "theory" and not reality. Its just plain physics.

I guess the thing is if the combo is maximized on the 347/351 flow levels then a stroker with more mass isnt necessarily going to outrun that 347. If there is more room to grow in the heads or intake with more cubic inches, then maybe the 408 can make more power to overcome its heavier weight.

BTW, no one said you had to spin it higher to win. Some guys on this site love to mention hondas or "rice" in a heart beat. The point is that the 347 has much less rotating mass...so it will go faster. And remember, i thought the exact same thing as you before, these ideas are coming from guys who had 347's and 351's with results.

Oh and to the original poster, im not anti 351 if you build them the right way. Just make sure you realize the total costs of it all and the combo that will be used because depending on the combo the 347 COULD go faster. A properly built 408 has to be insane though...but thats gotta easily cost over 10k

 

[mnsports]

What is with the weight thing? The weight really isn’t a factor when you consider the power gains and strength, if you really want to save weight then you should get an aluminum block. A 351W has a much better Rod-To-Stroke Ratio then a 347 which will give you more power. Most people do not run 351's they bore them to 357's and that is 10 more CC's then a 347. There is an old saying...there is no replacement for Displacement.......and it is true here. I’m a building a 357W that will be pumping out 450ish HP on pumped gas and that is with a pretty mild setup. 347's are great engines but for me, I would rather put my hard earned cash into a block that is way stronger then a stock 302 block. You can also loss weight by putting a no K-member and if you get it from http://www.paracing.com/ they can make you one that lowers the engine 1 ½” and it will fit under the stock hood if you want it to.

Brordix M2 ST 5.0R heads out flow everything in there class if you are going with 2.02/1.60 heads.

 

[Thenemesis]

ALRIGHT I will now add my 2 cents, The regular 5.8 (351w) has the best year of 69 and 70. The motors were stronger all around and if you find your self a set of 69 heads.. then you are going to have one bad mustang.. 69 heads are high compression and the best heads ever made for the 351w in alot of peoples opinions who i've talked to.. A 351w can be bored and stroker to a 427 stroker and make a e/t 500 horse easy. Kits are on ebay for 2k if your wondering. We were going to put one in our fastback but never finished it enough to. IMHO get a 69 or 70 block and 69 heads (has to be 69) and then order the 427 kit.. be a one of a kind mustang with a 427 stroker fox body.. lol

 

[mnsports]

Those 69 heads are bad ass but they won't come close to the after market heads made today. You can always put a girdel on and you will have a bullitt proof block for a very low cash price.

 

[Aliate X]

I called the local engine builder, they are professional builders that do not advertise and mainly go by referrals, I was referred by someone. They build a lot of top fuel motors.

Well I called them about it they said they can build me a 357 with me bringing in a JY 351 short block. They would bore it out and throw new pistons in. Some nice heads, cam, intake, carb and fully tuned for around 4,000-4,500. I need to call again to ask if that includes hot tanking the block and all.

In regards to the 408 I didnt know it would cost so much more, and the guy said that for my application (street use) the 357 will make PLENTY of power. He is building one for himself at the moment.

Last time I went there, they had 2 dual carb motors ready to be picked up by some guy. One was on the dyno, they were finishing up the tune. It was pushing 1300hp N/A. It was the biggest engine Ive ever seen.

 

[Thenemesis]

im still stuck on 427 stroker lol but then again to much HP .......











DAMN lol

 

[90mustangGT]

If your starting from scratch, weather building a stroker or not, a 351W is the way to go over a 347. Building a 331/347 or a 392/408/418(+) costs about the same. Building a 392+ will be better matched with higher performance components so that will cost more, but the performance HP:$$ ratio is still on the 351W's side.

The benifits to a 347 is that you can virtually bolt it on with your existing H/C/I and exaust. Doing a 351W will also require the typical swap items as well as the engine.

 

[nmcgrawj]

What is with the weight thing? The weight really isn’t a factor when you consider the power gains and strength, if you really want to save weight then you should get an aluminum block. A 351W has a much better Rod-To-Stroke Ratio then a 347 which will give you more power. Most people do not run 351's they bore them to 357's and that is 10 more CC's then a 347. There is an old saying...there is no replacement for Displacement.......and it is true here. I’m a building a 357W that will be pumping out 450ish HP on pumped gas and that is with a pretty mild setup. 347's are great engines but for me, I would rather put my hard earned cash into a block that is way stronger then a stock 302 block. You can also loss weight by putting a no K-member and if you get it from http://www.paracing.com/ they can make you one that lowers the engine 1 ½” and it will fit under the stock hood if you want it to.

Brordix M2 ST 5.0R heads out flow everything in there class if you are going with 2.02/1.60 heads.

Like i said above, take a 357 with a big extra 10 cubic inches...and take a 347 with the same h/c/i. The ROTATING mass of the 351w is going to slow it down. NOT the weight of the car itself. Again, half you guys are going on theory alone and have never tested this situation. If you have...lets here the results Thats whats wrong with the internet.

The 351w is a superior block to build up...it is much stronger. It all depends on what you want to achieve. Are you going to make that much power where a stock 302 block isnt ok? Not everyone does.

ALRIGHT I will now add my 2 cents, The regular 5.8 (351w) has the best year of 69 and 70. The motors were stronger all around and if you find your self a set of 69 heads.. then you are going to have one bad mustang.. 69 heads are high compression and the best heads ever made for the 351w in alot of peoples opinions who i've talked to.. A 351w can be bored and stroker to a 427 stroker and make a e/t 500 horse easy. Kits are on ebay for 2k if your wondering. We were going to put one in our fastback but never finished it enough to. IMHO get a 69 or 70 block and 69 heads (has to be 69) and then order the 427 kit.. be a one of a kind mustang with a 427 stroker fox body.. lol

Again, lets clean up some of this internet bs. Those heads are the best factory heads for the 351w but they will not come close to todays aluminum heads.


Bottom line, it all depends on what you are trying to do. A stroked 351 can be built to make some insane power. But is that in the plan? I dont think a built 347 shortblock costs the same as a 351 stroked...the 351 is gonna come out more to do it right. Its all in what the owner is looking for. If u think a 351w is going to out run a 347 with the same parts, then think again. And if it is, show me where it has.

Its all about money and wants from your car. Too many internet rumors of "someone told me this and someone told me that" with no one who has actually had a test to see. In theory, yes u are right. But with physics and reality involved...its wrong.

Displacement must be used correctly. Throwing parts for a 347 on a 408 will give 347 power. Parts for a 408 will make 408 power. An 10 cubic inches wont make up the weight difference. Guys with 306's and 308's dont necessarily run faster than 302's because of the extra cubic inches...they run faster because its a better running engine.

Anyway, believe what you want. Dont preach until you know results

 

[Aliate X]

Like i said above, take a 357 with a big extra 10 cubic inches...and take a 347 with the same h/c/i. The ROTATING mass of the 351w is going to slow it down. NOT the weight of the car itself. Again, half you guys are going on theory alone and have never tested this situation. If you have...lets here the results Thats whats wrong with the internet.

The 351w is a superior block to build up...it is much stronger. It all depends on what you want to achieve. Are you going to make that much power where a stock 302 block isnt ok? Not everyone does.



Again, lets clean up some of this internet bs. Those heads are the best factory heads for the 351w but they will not come close to todays aluminum heads.


Bottom line, it all depends on what you are trying to do. A stroked 351 can be built to make some insane power. But is that in the plan? I dont think a built 347 shortblock costs the same as a 351 stroked...the 351 is gonna come out more to do it right. Its all in what the owner is looking for. If u think a 351w is going to out run a 347 with the same parts, then think again. And if it is, show me where it has.

Its all about money and wants from your car. Too many internet rumors of "someone told me this and someone told me that" with no one who has actually had a test to see. In theory, yes u are right. But with physics and reality involved...its wrong.

Displacement must be used correctly. Throwing parts for a 347 on a 408 will give 347 power. Parts for a 408 will make 408 power. An 10 cubic inches wont make up the weight difference. Guys with 306's and 308's dont necessarily run faster than 302's because of the extra cubic inches...they run faster because its a better running engine.

Anyway, believe what you want. Dont preach until you know results

351 based motors usually make a lot more torque too. And the weight diff between the 347 and 351 is about 75lbs.

 

[D1ZE]

Rotating mass gonna slow it down?! That's ridiculous. My 408 has components in it that are far lighter than a stock 302. It depends on what you're running for a rotating assembly. Don't kid yourself here, a 408 is simply an overgrown small block Ford. Of course it'll run circles around its smaller brethren. And a production 351W block will take over 500 hp easily (even the thin wall late model castings), whereas the 302 is marginal. You have to step up to an aftermarket 302 block for durability, like what I just did when I bought my Dart.

 

[Modular2v]

i have a cleveland block and 4v heads, torker intake and a canton oil pan for sale if any one is interested in cleveland parts pm me

 

[mnsports]

Like i said above, take a 357 with a big extra 10 cubic inches...and take a 347 with the same h/c/i. The ROTATING mass of the 351w is going to slow it down. NOT the weight of the car itself. Again, half you guys are going on theory alone and have never tested this situation. If you have...lets here the results Thats whats wrong with the internet.

The 351w is a superior block to build up...it is much stronger. It all depends on what you want to achieve. Are you going to make that much power where a stock 302 block isnt ok? Not everyone does.



Again, lets clean up some of this internet bs. Those heads are the best factory heads for the 351w but they will not come close to todays aluminum heads.


Bottom line, it all depends on what you are trying to do. A stroked 351 can be built to make some insane power. But is that in the plan? I dont think a built 347 shortblock costs the same as a 351 stroked...the 351 is gonna come out more to do it right. Its all in what the owner is looking for. If u think a 351w is going to out run a 347 with the same parts, then think again. And if it is, show me where it has.

Its all about money and wants from your car. Too many internet rumors of "someone told me this and someone told me that" with no one who has actually had a test to see. In theory, yes u are right. But with physics and reality involved...its wrong.

Displacement must be used correctly. Throwing parts for a 347 on a 408 will give 347 power. Parts for a 408 will make 408 power. An 10 cubic inches wont make up the weight difference. Guys with 306's and 308's dont necessarily run faster than 302's because of the extra cubic inches...they run faster because its a better running engine.

Anyway, believe what you want. Dont preach until you know results

How about you show us these results you are talking about? You are right when you say "it depends on what you want to do" but that has nothing to do with you saying a 347 is going to walk all over a 351 because it's a lighter rotating mass, that's rubish. It's plane and simple a bigger Displacment motor will make more HP & TQ. We are waiting to see your results...please post them.

 

[tjm73]

Rotating mass gonna slow it down?!

Chew on this fact. My brother recently built a 418W. The rotating assembly that made it a 418 weighs just over 23 pounds LESS than the stock factory 351W rotating assembly. That's JUST in the crank ,rods and pistons.

To say the rotating assembly will create drag due to weight is a falicy.