Just got motor put back in with new top-end etc and I cant get it to start. It cranks over but all I've gotten is 1 or 2 exhaust pops, it really hasnt even come close to wanting to catch. I have spark at the plugs and fuel and power at the injectors. I thought for sure that I had the dist. 180 deg off but I switched that back and forth a few times with no results. Could it be an ignition module or ecu? Or is it more likely some kind of timing issue? I am totally at a loss at this point.
new motor wont start
- Thread starter Brando 91LX
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hogt2
Founding Member
You may need to twist the dist. to increase timing a little. Are you sure you have the dist. on #1 btdc? The dist. may be of a tooth or two also.
Remove your number 1 spark plug and coil wire.
Have someone bump the starter while you put your finger over the sparkplug hole to feel for the compression stroke.
Once you feel this remove the dizzy cap and look to see if the rotor is pointed to the number 1 plug.
If it is...you have the dizzy stabbed correctly.
Have someone bump the starter while you put your finger over the sparkplug hole to feel for the compression stroke.
Once you feel this remove the dizzy cap and look to see if the rotor is pointed to the number 1 plug.
If it is...you have the dizzy stabbed correctly.
stangzroastrice
Founding Member
yeah i had the same issue when i did my 4 cyl - 8 cyl conversion, and at first it was the fuel pressure that was a problem, but it would still "pop", so definitely check your timing if you're sure that you're receiving spark and fuel...
Cranks OK, but No Start Checklist for Fuel Injected Mustangs
Revised 29-Jun-2007 to update TPS testing procedure for 94-95 Mustangs
All text applies to all models unless stated otherwise.
Note: 94-95 specific changes are in red
1.) Remove push on connector from starter solenoid and turn ignition switch on. Place car in neutral or Park and set the parking brake. Remove the coil wire from distributor & and hold it 3/8” away from the engine block. Jumper the screw to the big bolt on the starter solenoid that has the battery wire connected to it. You should get a nice fat blue spark.
Most of the items are electrical in nature, so a test light, or even better, a voltmeter, is helpful to be sure they have power to them.
No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) MSD or Crane ignition box if so equipped
B.) Coil
C.) TFI module
D.) PIP sensor in distributor. The PIP sensor supplies the timing pulse to trigger the TFI and injectors. See paragraph 5A - a noid light will tell if the pip is working by flashing when the engine is cranking.
E.) No ECC or computer power - ECC or computer relay failure
86-93 models only: ECC relay next to computer - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires
94-95 models only: EEC or PCM power relay in the constant control relay module. Look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
F.) No ECC or computer power - fuse or fuse link failure
86-93 models only: Fuse links in wiring harness - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires. All the fuse links live in a bundle up near the starter solenoid.
94-95 models only: 20 amp EEC fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. Look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
G.) Ignition switch - look for 12 volts at the ignition coil red/lt green wire. No 12 volts, blown fuse link or faulty ignition switch. Remove the plastic from around the ignition switch and look for 12 volts on the red/green wire with the switch in the Run position. No 12 volts and the ignition switch is faulty. If 12 volts is present in the Run position, then the fuse link is blown.
94-95 models only: Check inside fuse panel for fuse #18 blown – 20 amp fuse
H.) Computer
J.) Engine fires briefly, but dies immediately when the key is released to the Run position. Crank the engine & when it fires off, pull the small push on connector (red wire) off the starter relay (Looks like it is stuck on a screw). Hold the switch in the crank position: if it continues to run there is a problem with either the ignition switch or TFI module. Check for 12 volts at the red/green wire on the coil with the switch in the Run position. Good 12 volts, then replace the TFI. No 12 volts, replace the ignition switch.
See the following links for wiring diagrams...
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/16/71/3c/0900823d8016713c.jsp for 79-88 model cars
Computer/fuel pump/ignition wiring diagram, 86 model http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d80167158.gif
Computer/fuel pump/ignition wiring diagram, 87 model http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d8016715e.gif
Computer/fuel pump/ignition wiring diagram, 88 model http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d80167162.gif
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/19/59/5a/0900823d8019595a.jsp for 89-93 model cars
Computer/fuel pump/ignition wiring diagram, 89-90 cars http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d8019595f.gif
Computer/fuel pump/ignition wiring diagram, 91-93 cars
http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d80195960.gif
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/1d/db/3c/0900823d801ddb3c.jsp for 94-98 model cars
2.) Spark at coil wire, pull #1 plug wire off at the spark plug and check to see spark. No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Moisture inside distributor – remove cap, dry off & spray with WD40
B.) Distributor cap
C.) Rotor
D.) Spark Plug wires
E.) Coil weak or intermittent - you should see 3/8" fat blue spark with a good coil
3.) Spark at spark plug, but no start.
Next, get a can of starting fluid (ether) from your local auto parts store: costs a $1.30 or so. Then pull the air duct off at the throttle body elbow, open the throttle, and spray the ether in it. Reconnect the air duct and try to start the car. Do not try to start the car without reconnecting the air duct.
Two reasons:
1.) If it backfires, the chance for a serious fire is increased.
2.) On Mass Air cars, the computer needs to measure the MAF flow once the engine starts.
If it starts then, you have a fuel management issue. Continue the checklist with emphasis of fuel related items that follow. If it doesn’t, then it is a computer or timing issue: see Step 4.
Clue – listen for the fuel pump to prime when you first turn the ignition switch on. It should run for 5-20 seconds and shut off. To trick the fuel pump into running, find the EEC test connector and jump the connector in the Upper RH corner to ground. The EEC connector is near the wiper motor and LH hood hinge.
If the relay & inertia switch are OK, you will have power to the pump. Check fuel pressure – remove the cap from the schrader valve behind the alternator and depress the core. Fuel should squirt out, catch it in a rag. Beware of fire hazard when you do this. In a pinch, you can use a tire pressure gauge to measure the fuel pressure. It may not be completely accurate, but you will have some clue as to how much pressure you have. If you have any doubts about having sufficient fuel flow/pressure, rent a fuel pressure test gauge from the auto parts store. That will tell you for sure if you have adequate fuel pressure.
4.) No fuel pressure, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Tripped inertia switch – Coupe & hatch cars hide it under the plastic trim covering the driver's side taillight. Use the voltmeter or test light to make sure you have power to both sides of the switch
B.) Fuel pump power relay – located under the driver’s seat in most stangs built before 92. On 92 and later model cars it is located below the Mass Air Flow meter. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
C.) Clogged fuel filter
D.) Failed fuel pump
E.) 86-90 models only: Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Orange/Lt Blue wire on the fuel pump relay.
91-93 models only Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
The fuse links for all model years 86-93 live in the wiring harness near the starter solenoid.
94-95 models only: 20 amp fuel pump fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. Look for 12 volts at the Dark green/yellow wire on the constant control relay module.
F.) Engine seem to load up on fuel and may have black smoke at the tailpipe. Fuel pressure regulator failed. Remove the vacuum line from the regulator and inspect for fuel escaping while the pump is running. If fuel is coming out the vacuum port, the regulator has failed. Check the regulator vacuum line for fuel too. Disconnect it from the engine and blow air though it. If you find gas, the regulator has failed.
5.) Fuel pressure OK, the injectors are not firing.
A.) A noid light available from any auto parts store, is one way to test the injector wiring.
The noid light plugs into the fuel injector harness in place of any easily accessible injector. Plug it in and it will flash if the injector is firing.
B.) I like to use an old injector with compressed air applied to the injector where the fuel rail would normally connect. I hook the whole thing up, apply compressed air to the injector and stick it in a paper cup of soapy water. When the engine cranks with the ignition switch on, if the injector fires, it makes bubbles. Cheap if you have the stuff laying around, and works good too.
D.) Pull an injector wire connector off and look for 12 volts on the red wire when the ignition switch is on.
E.) No power, then look for problems with the 10 pin connecter (salt & pepper shakers at the rear of the upper manifold).
F.) No power and the 10 pin connections are good: look for broken wiring between the orange/black wire on the ECC relay and the red wire for the 10 pin connectors.
G.) TPS voltage exceeds 3.7 volts with the throttle closed. This will shut off the injectors, since the computer uses this strategy to clear a flooded engine. Use a DVM, a pair of safety pins, and probe the black/white and green wires to measure the TPS voltage.
On a 94-95 Mustang, probe the black/white and grey/white wires to measure the TPS voltage.
It should be .5-.99 volts with the key on, engine not running. Note that if the black/white wire (signal ground) has a bad connection, you will get some strange readings. Make a second measurement using the battery post as the ground to eliminate any ground problems. If the readings are different by more than 5%, you may have a high resistance condition in the black/white signal ground circuit.
6.) Spark & fuel pressure OK.
A.) Failed IAB (no airflow to start engine). Press the throttle ¼ way down and try to start the car.
B.) Failed computer (not very likely)
C.) Engine ignition or cam timing off: only likely if the engine has been worked on recently).
D.) Firing order off: HO & 351 use a different firing order from the non HO engines.
HO & 351W 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
Non HO 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
E.) No start when hot - Press the throttle to the floor & try starting it if you get this far. If it starts, replace the ECT.
Revised 29-Jun-2007 to update TPS testing procedure for 94-95 Mustangs
All text applies to all models unless stated otherwise.
Note: 94-95 specific changes are in red
1.) Remove push on connector from starter solenoid and turn ignition switch on. Place car in neutral or Park and set the parking brake. Remove the coil wire from distributor & and hold it 3/8” away from the engine block. Jumper the screw to the big bolt on the starter solenoid that has the battery wire connected to it. You should get a nice fat blue spark.
Most of the items are electrical in nature, so a test light, or even better, a voltmeter, is helpful to be sure they have power to them.
No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) MSD or Crane ignition box if so equipped
B.) Coil
C.) TFI module
D.) PIP sensor in distributor. The PIP sensor supplies the timing pulse to trigger the TFI and injectors. See paragraph 5A - a noid light will tell if the pip is working by flashing when the engine is cranking.
E.) No ECC or computer power - ECC or computer relay failure
86-93 models only: ECC relay next to computer - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires
94-95 models only: EEC or PCM power relay in the constant control relay module. Look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
F.) No ECC or computer power - fuse or fuse link failure
86-93 models only: Fuse links in wiring harness - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires. All the fuse links live in a bundle up near the starter solenoid.
94-95 models only: 20 amp EEC fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. Look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
G.) Ignition switch - look for 12 volts at the ignition coil red/lt green wire. No 12 volts, blown fuse link or faulty ignition switch. Remove the plastic from around the ignition switch and look for 12 volts on the red/green wire with the switch in the Run position. No 12 volts and the ignition switch is faulty. If 12 volts is present in the Run position, then the fuse link is blown.
94-95 models only: Check inside fuse panel for fuse #18 blown – 20 amp fuse
H.) Computer
J.) Engine fires briefly, but dies immediately when the key is released to the Run position. Crank the engine & when it fires off, pull the small push on connector (red wire) off the starter relay (Looks like it is stuck on a screw). Hold the switch in the crank position: if it continues to run there is a problem with either the ignition switch or TFI module. Check for 12 volts at the red/green wire on the coil with the switch in the Run position. Good 12 volts, then replace the TFI. No 12 volts, replace the ignition switch.
See the following links for wiring diagrams...
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/16/71/3c/0900823d8016713c.jsp for 79-88 model cars
Computer/fuel pump/ignition wiring diagram, 86 model http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d80167158.gif
Computer/fuel pump/ignition wiring diagram, 87 model http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d8016715e.gif
Computer/fuel pump/ignition wiring diagram, 88 model http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d80167162.gif
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/19/59/5a/0900823d8019595a.jsp for 89-93 model cars
Computer/fuel pump/ignition wiring diagram, 89-90 cars http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d8019595f.gif
Computer/fuel pump/ignition wiring diagram, 91-93 cars
http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d80195960.gif
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/1d/db/3c/0900823d801ddb3c.jsp for 94-98 model cars
2.) Spark at coil wire, pull #1 plug wire off at the spark plug and check to see spark. No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Moisture inside distributor – remove cap, dry off & spray with WD40
B.) Distributor cap
C.) Rotor
D.) Spark Plug wires
E.) Coil weak or intermittent - you should see 3/8" fat blue spark with a good coil
3.) Spark at spark plug, but no start.
Next, get a can of starting fluid (ether) from your local auto parts store: costs a $1.30 or so. Then pull the air duct off at the throttle body elbow, open the throttle, and spray the ether in it. Reconnect the air duct and try to start the car. Do not try to start the car without reconnecting the air duct.
Two reasons:
1.) If it backfires, the chance for a serious fire is increased.
2.) On Mass Air cars, the computer needs to measure the MAF flow once the engine starts.
If it starts then, you have a fuel management issue. Continue the checklist with emphasis of fuel related items that follow. If it doesn’t, then it is a computer or timing issue: see Step 4.
Clue – listen for the fuel pump to prime when you first turn the ignition switch on. It should run for 5-20 seconds and shut off. To trick the fuel pump into running, find the EEC test connector and jump the connector in the Upper RH corner to ground. The EEC connector is near the wiper motor and LH hood hinge.
If the relay & inertia switch are OK, you will have power to the pump. Check fuel pressure – remove the cap from the schrader valve behind the alternator and depress the core. Fuel should squirt out, catch it in a rag. Beware of fire hazard when you do this. In a pinch, you can use a tire pressure gauge to measure the fuel pressure. It may not be completely accurate, but you will have some clue as to how much pressure you have. If you have any doubts about having sufficient fuel flow/pressure, rent a fuel pressure test gauge from the auto parts store. That will tell you for sure if you have adequate fuel pressure.
4.) No fuel pressure, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Tripped inertia switch – Coupe & hatch cars hide it under the plastic trim covering the driver's side taillight. Use the voltmeter or test light to make sure you have power to both sides of the switch
B.) Fuel pump power relay – located under the driver’s seat in most stangs built before 92. On 92 and later model cars it is located below the Mass Air Flow meter. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
C.) Clogged fuel filter
D.) Failed fuel pump
E.) 86-90 models only: Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Orange/Lt Blue wire on the fuel pump relay.
91-93 models only Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
The fuse links for all model years 86-93 live in the wiring harness near the starter solenoid.
94-95 models only: 20 amp fuel pump fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. Look for 12 volts at the Dark green/yellow wire on the constant control relay module.
F.) Engine seem to load up on fuel and may have black smoke at the tailpipe. Fuel pressure regulator failed. Remove the vacuum line from the regulator and inspect for fuel escaping while the pump is running. If fuel is coming out the vacuum port, the regulator has failed. Check the regulator vacuum line for fuel too. Disconnect it from the engine and blow air though it. If you find gas, the regulator has failed.
5.) Fuel pressure OK, the injectors are not firing.
A.) A noid light available from any auto parts store, is one way to test the injector wiring.
The noid light plugs into the fuel injector harness in place of any easily accessible injector. Plug it in and it will flash if the injector is firing.
B.) I like to use an old injector with compressed air applied to the injector where the fuel rail would normally connect. I hook the whole thing up, apply compressed air to the injector and stick it in a paper cup of soapy water. When the engine cranks with the ignition switch on, if the injector fires, it makes bubbles. Cheap if you have the stuff laying around, and works good too.
D.) Pull an injector wire connector off and look for 12 volts on the red wire when the ignition switch is on.
E.) No power, then look for problems with the 10 pin connecter (salt & pepper shakers at the rear of the upper manifold).
F.) No power and the 10 pin connections are good: look for broken wiring between the orange/black wire on the ECC relay and the red wire for the 10 pin connectors.
G.) TPS voltage exceeds 3.7 volts with the throttle closed. This will shut off the injectors, since the computer uses this strategy to clear a flooded engine. Use a DVM, a pair of safety pins, and probe the black/white and green wires to measure the TPS voltage.
On a 94-95 Mustang, probe the black/white and grey/white wires to measure the TPS voltage.
It should be .5-.99 volts with the key on, engine not running. Note that if the black/white wire (signal ground) has a bad connection, you will get some strange readings. Make a second measurement using the battery post as the ground to eliminate any ground problems. If the readings are different by more than 5%, you may have a high resistance condition in the black/white signal ground circuit.
6.) Spark & fuel pressure OK.
A.) Failed IAB (no airflow to start engine). Press the throttle ¼ way down and try to start the car.
B.) Failed computer (not very likely)
C.) Engine ignition or cam timing off: only likely if the engine has been worked on recently).
D.) Firing order off: HO & 351 use a different firing order from the non HO engines.
HO & 351W 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
Non HO 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
E.) No start when hot - Press the throttle to the floor & try starting it if you get this far. If it starts, replace the ECT.
I did the whole dist. installation procedure several times and and moved it back and forth every which way and still got nothing. Could it be the TFI or the PIP or would I not have any spark if that was the case? The only other thing that I can think of is that I F-ed up when I installed the cam and timing chain. The timing set was a stock replacement though so I dont see how it could be wrong.
Go back and work your way through the checklist. It is designed to step by step separate the good from the bad. You will reduce your troubleshooting time and the number of parts you replace by using it. I have better than a 95% sucess rate using it.
I have checked and re-checked everything on the list. I'm basically left with failed computer or timing. Like I said I pulled the dist and reset it at TDC several times and it did nothing. As far as the cam install/timing, isn't it kind of fool proof with a stock cam gear? Line up the dots and thats it, right? Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought it cant be anywhere but TDC when the dots line up.....I would really hate to tear down half my motor just to find out that wasnt the problem, I also dont have the money to drop on a computer that might not be the problem...Is there anyway to narrow it down further?
Do you have spark? If yes, the magnetic PIP sensor inside the distributor is working and so is the TFI.
Do you have 12 volts on the red injector wires? If no, then you have a ECC relay, fuse link or ignition switch problem.
Does the Noid light flash when you crank the engine with the ignition in Run?? If yes, the computer is working. If yes, the magnetic PIP sensor inside the distributor is working.
Do you have 40 PSI fuel pressure? The auto parts store will rent/loan a fuel pressure test gauge.
Do you have compression on #1 cylinder when the timing pointer shows TDC? if no, then you assembled the camshaft incorrectly.
I have not seen the list fail more than 5% of the time. Most of the time problem causes are missed because someone skipped a step.
Do you have 12 volts on the red injector wires? If no, then you have a ECC relay, fuse link or ignition switch problem.
Does the Noid light flash when you crank the engine with the ignition in Run?? If yes, the computer is working. If yes, the magnetic PIP sensor inside the distributor is working.
Do you have 40 PSI fuel pressure? The auto parts store will rent/loan a fuel pressure test gauge.
Do you have compression on #1 cylinder when the timing pointer shows TDC? if no, then you assembled the camshaft incorrectly.
I have not seen the list fail more than 5% of the time. Most of the time problem causes are missed because someone skipped a step.
I have 40 psi at the schroeder valve , I have 11.7 at the red injector wire, I have spark, and #1 is on compression at TDC. 
.....A couple things I noticed: I did get a big back fire when I used the starter fluid, also when I put the gas pedal down and turn it over I do get some gargles and pops that werent there with out hitting the pedal, but nowhere close to wanting to catch. Dont know if that means anything?
.....A couple things I noticed: I did get a big back fire when I used the starter fluid, also when I put the gas pedal down and turn it over I do get some gargles and pops that werent there with out hitting the pedal, but nowhere close to wanting to catch. Dont know if that means anything?
You probably installed the timing set incorrectly.
Did you bring the #1 piston up on the compression stroke prior to removing the dizzy?
Did you put your finger in the #1 sparkplug hole and have someone bump it over til the compression pushes your finger out ,then remove the dizzy cap and look to see if the pointer is pointing to the #1 plug wire on the cap?
If it is them you probably have the chain on correctly.
Not trying to insult your intelligence...just sounds like it's out of time.
Was it running ok before you installed your combo?
Did you bring the #1 piston up on the compression stroke prior to removing the dizzy?
Did you put your finger in the #1 sparkplug hole and have someone bump it over til the compression pushes your finger out ,then remove the dizzy cap and look to see if the pointer is pointing to the #1 plug wire on the cap?
If it is them you probably have the chain on correctly.
Not trying to insult your intelligence...just sounds like it's out of time.
Was it running ok before you installed your combo?
I bought this car in pieces so I only know that it was supposedly running fine before. I've reset the distributor several times and # seems to be at or near the top of its stroke. I have a bad feeling that it is somehow a cam/timing set issue, I really just want to exhaust all options before I rip this thing apart. The thing that I thought was weird was even though it doesnt start, it pops a little when I put the pedal down...Also, maybe this is a dumb question but when the crank gear has its dot up the #1 piston is automatically up so that is TDC right? Then I just installed the cam gear with the dot down so it met the crank gear. That is all there is to it isnt it?
wht87gt
Member
I may have a suggestion for you. I had the same exact problems your having after I installed my Trick Flow topend kit. I went through jrichker's check list and everything checked out fine. After speaking to a mechanic friend of mine about my problems, he suggested that I check for compression. Turns out I had no compression at all. I had adjusted my rocker arms too tight when I initially installed them and the valves where staying open during startup, hence no compression. So I went back and readjusted all the rockers, buttoned it back up and sure enough it fired up the first time I cranked it over. Runs like a champ now. It's just a suggestion but you may want to get yourself a compression gauge and check for this issue. I'm not sure how much you've been cranking it over but you may also want to pull the plugs and clean them, they will probably be soaked with gas by now. Once you do get it started I also suggest changing your oil before letting the car run for too long, your oil will probably be thinned out from all the unburned gas running down the cylinder walls. My oil was like brown water. Hope this helps you, I chased this problem for a while before I got it running and I know how frustrating it can get.
That is an AWESOME suggestion! I think that you may be on to something cuz when I would put a rag in the #1 hole it would never pop out when I crank it over, I had to actually stick a little screwdriver in there to make sure that the piston was on its way up...I hope this is it, I 'll let you know if it works.
fastford91
New Member
ya if you didnt get it to pop out your rockers are to tight! not letting the valve close and its staying open by the sounds of it! if you use a damp paper towel and put it in #1 it should make a popping noise and should fly out of the hole on the compression stroke! then use a lil screw driver to bring it the rest of the way to TDC!
Wht87 you are the man!My car is running like an f-ing top now! Pm me your address so I can send you a case of beer...You saved me hours of work and anger .... JRicker: Thank you for the help, but I would definitely add this tip to the list though. Make 95% success 98%.
I have added doing a compression test to my copy of the checklist. Thanks for your input.
Joe R.
twistedwankel
Member
Are you absolutely positive you aligned the crank and cam marks when you reassembled it? I'd be looking for an elephant if the other electrical/fuel stuff all worked before.
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