05 3v 4.6L conversion

[speed1972]

Ok, so I’ve been trying to figure out what route I want to go on the motor in my 67. I came across a killer deal on a wrecked 05 GT. Has anyone transplanted the drivetrain from a S197 into a classic yet? I don’t know how much of the electronics I will have to transplant though. Does anyone know if the dash instruments and so forth are integrated or can I just take them out?

Appreciate any guidance anyone can provide. I have searched and there isn’t much info on this swap yet…. And for the nay sayers, please disregard because in the end, this is my project and I don’t need the negative comments.

thanks
LB

 

[1320stang]

I think you can carb it, otherwise a standalone EFI is what you'll need.

Otherwise you're looking at major coinage.

 

[speed1972]

major coinage for?? I'm already going MII front end so the suspension and motor mounts will already be modified. I've got the complete car from the 05 so everything is there that I'd need. I would have to modify the fuel system a little but what else?

I don't think that I'd need a stand alone efi or even have to carb it since I have all the electronics.

thanks,
LB

 

[mr_woodster]

I'm not really sure, but the above poster was most likely hinting at the work that will be necessary to use the anti-theft setup. There is alot of electronics in the new stuff, and you have to Use all (or very close to) of it or none at all.

 

[shoguun]

i dont think you can carb a 4.6 i thought they were overhead cam engines. i dont think a standard manifold would fit it. i think the engine block is wider

 

[speed1972]

I'm really looking for a stock style setup... no carb for me. I guess maybe I'll go ahead and get the car and see what happens. Worst case scenario, I part out the whole thing. I def won't lose money.

LB

 

[65ShelbyClone]

i dont think you can carb a 4.6 i thought they were overhead cam engines. i dont think a standard manifold would fit it. i think the engine block is wider

The valvetrain has nothing to do with the ability to use a carburetor on a modular and there are carb intakes available for them; the "issue" is how to set up ignition on an engine that has no provision for a distributor. Even then, installing a crank trigger is not a big deal.

 

[Bullitt]

I'm glad to see someone else is considering this!!!

From the little research I've done on the electronics side... Ford Motorsport has a computer / harness / wiring kit specifically intended for use in "hotrods" to install their crate 350horse 4.6 3V. The kit comes with the aforementioned harness and computer, but also includes the MAF and some other parts. Check out pg. 85 of the 2009 catalog for it.

Now, since you've got the whole car you wouldn't need all that. What I'd do is call the Motorsports techline and see if they can help. Maybe you could get a set of install instructions from them which might help.

I believe the comments about the standalone unit are tied to a couple of issues. I know some of the 3V Ford installs have an issue if the gauges aren't connected - car won't start. That tied with the anti-theft means it may be easier to go standalone.

Let us know what you find out!

 

[speed1972]

Will do.. 2 reasons that I'm contemplating this swap, one, it's a good middle of the road performance setup in between 4v and 2v. I won't have $5K+ into the motor like a 4v and it will make more power than a 2v and two, I'm picking up the whole car for $2500. If I do it right, I may be able to get enough from parting the car to cover most of my costs....

Good call on the FRPP kit, I like that idea if the stock wiring harness isn't going to pan out. I will do some research before I give up on the stocker though because that is another $1300 out. Thanks for the good info!

It will be a couple months until I'm on the right side of the world again to start working on it though. Once I do, I will start a 3v conversion thread to document the good and bad.

LB

 

[stonecoldtx]

Will do.. 2 reasons that I'm contemplating this swap, one, it's a good middle of the road performance setup in between 4v and 2v. I won't have $5K+ into the motor like a 4v and it will make more power than a 2v and two, I'm picking up the whole car for $2500. If I do it right, I may be able to get enough from parting the car to cover most of my costs....

Good call on the FRPP kit, I like that idea if the stock wiring harness isn't going to pan out. I will do some research before I give up on the stocker though because that is another $1300 out. Thanks for the good info!

It will be a couple months until I'm on the right side of the world again to start working on it though. Once I do, I will start a 3v conversion thread to document the good and bad.

LB

Some advice regarding FRPP kits--the standalone EFI wiring harness I purchased for my conversion to EFI on my 5.0 in my '70 Mustang was outsourced to a 3rd-party, TWO MAN OPERATION (dunne-rite.com, if you're interested).

I had a problem with my A/C at the beginning of the summer--the compressor was not engaging. I checked and double checked all of the wiring against the instructions, and it was a real pain because I had to pull my dash apart to do it, but it was all wired correctly, but it still would not work, so I called up the FRPP Techline for assistance.

The FRPP tech line had NO clue about the harness (and flat out told me so), and said they would try to get in touch with the people who built the harness, but after 3 days of no help, I got the contact information and tried to contact them directly myself.

When I tried to contact the two man operation, I got in touch with the SALES guy, who promised he would have the TECH guy call me back, which he did; however, because I was not at the car at the time he called bac, we made an agreement that HE would call ME back the next day at an agreed time.

He never called back, and not only that, I called HIM every 15 minutes for the next hour, and at least once an hour the rest of the day, with NO RESPONSE WHATSOEVER!!

In the end, I had to fix the issue myself by bypassing the problem area in the wiring harness.

Bottom line--if you are going to use the FRPP kit, find out WHO makes it, and IF they provide support (a TWO MAN OPERATION can't POSSIBLY provide any support), because even if you can do it all yourself, there might be a problem with the components, like there was with my harness. If it's made by the same people, I would strongly recommend you steer clear of it!!

 

[Decurion]

Also be aware the early 3v engines used a smaller than normal spark plug. This shouldnt be an issue for a stock or near stock engine, but if you plan on boost or something, spark plug availability is an issue. Also, the gap is effectively not adjustable.

 

[speed1972]

stonecoldtx. I will look into who makes the kit, but I still prefer the stock setup unless I determine its not worth the time/effort. If I decide to switch, I will definitely check it out.

decurion. No plans for boost at this time, but if I do I will probably go with the same style kit that I have on my 06. Basic Paxton setup with 5-6lbs boost so nothing major. Thanks for the info though regardless.

Any other good info?

LB

 

[65ShelbyClone]

Also be aware the early 3v engines used a smaller than normal spark plug. This shouldnt be an issue for a stock or near stock engine, but if you plan on boost or something, spark plug availability is an issue. Also, the gap is effectively not adjustable.

Don't they all use an unusual plug like that and not just the early ones?

 

[stonecoldtx]

Don't they all use an unusual plug like that and not just the early ones?

Well, sorta . . . the 05's and 06's, and possibly the 07's used the same type of plug the original 5.4 3V engines used, but they changed and went to a long reach plug that had threads the entire length instead of just at the top.

They're all still "unusual", but there are indeed differences.

 

[D.Hearne]

I think you can carb it, otherwise a standalone EFI is what you'll need.

Otherwise you're looking at major coinage.

Nope, it's got to be EFI. The computer advances and retards the cams and the slide valves regulating the secondary valve ports

 

[D.Hearne]

i dont think you can carb a 4.6 i thought they were overhead cam engines. i dont think a standard manifold would fit it. i think the engine block is wider

You can carb the 2V and 4V motors as long as you use a crank trigger to fire the ignition. The 3V is a whole nother animal.

 

[wicked93gs]

you can carb just about any engine...I believe that mallory sells a crank trigger setup is used to replace a distributor, but works roughly the same(usually sold for pushrod engines to increase spark stability at higher RPM) you should be able to modify any crank pulley to accept a trigger wheel....hell for that matter you can use a standalone like Megasquirt to control spark and let fuel be supplied by a carb...you should be able to swap an EDIS trigger wheel pulley from any early 4.6L onto the new 3v...I would think anyway....when people carb a neon(yes, I have friends who have carbed neons using weber sidedrafts...dont know why) they replace the camshaft position sensor with a honda distributor they attach to the intake camshaft using the dowel holes meant to hold the camshaft sensor in place

 

[D.Hearne]

you can carb just about any engine...I believe that mallory sells a crank trigger setup is used to replace a distributor, but works roughly the same(usually sold for pushrod engines to increase spark stability at higher RPM) you should be able to modify any crank pulley to accept a trigger wheel....hell for that matter you can use a standalone like Megasquirt to control spark and let fuel be supplied by a carb...you should be able to swap an EDIS trigger wheel pulley from any early 4.6L onto the new 3v...I would think anyway....when people carb a neon(yes, I have friends who have carbed neons using weber sidedrafts...dont know why) they replace the camshaft position sensor with a honda distributor they attach to the intake camshaft using the dowel holes meant to hold the camshaft sensor in place

I guess you didn't read what I posted. The 3V 4.6 needs the computer to advance and retard the cams, plus manage the function of the intake slide valves. A crank trigger only serves to manage the spark plugs firing.

 

[speed1972]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that what the cam locks are for...to eliminate the vct?

LB

 

[D.Hearne]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that what the cam locks are for...to eliminate the vct?

LB

If you do that, you're also locking out the power increases generated with this function. The 3V 4.6 is really kind of lazy at the lower rpms, it's not until the cam timing changes comes in, plus the opening of the secondary valve ports that it really comes alive. It's sort of the same feeling you used to get when the secondary side of a carb kicked in.