Hi guys, I figured a Mustang forum would be my best bet at someone answering this question for me correctly so here goes; I have this buddy who's a head mechanic at a BMW place. He want's to turbo my car for me and I'm trying to get as few parts as possible to turbo my car without spending like 5 grand or more. He tells me that the minimum parts that I can put in without damaging the engine are: the turbo(obviously) which is a Turbonetics 61mm turbo, the intercooler and piping kit, the wastegate, 42lb injectors, a new fuel pump and a tubular K member. I'm a little hesitant to believe that that's all I need but he tells me "I know my s***" and I really can't say he doesn't since he IS a head mechanic. Also, he says he'll set it to run on 8lbs of boost and I've done my own research and have found that a stock GT engine should be able handle that. But I would still like to hear what you guys have to say as well. If you guys haven't read my profile, I own an automatic 96 Mustang GT. Oh another question, if those are the parts that I can install and run 8lbs, what kind of hp are we looking at to the rear wheel? Thanks guys! If you guys have any questions for me about my car, go ahead and ask them in your response.
Turbo Stock GT Engine?
- Thread starter AshWilliams
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Take a look at the hellion kit.
http://www.hellionpowersystems.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=132
They post a complete parts list on their site.... should give you an idea that this will not be as simple as your friend may be making it out to be- there will be lots of fabrication, your stang will be out of commission on a lift for a while, and the labor to fab your own turbo kit is going to be very expensive. (unless your friend is doing it for free/really cheap, or if you are tank here on this site
) With all that being said, a turbo is a great idea, just make sure your friend plans it out very well if you are doing a custom kit or go with a well known kit. The tuner kit on the hellion site meets your $5k budget. 
http://www.hellionpowersystems.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=132
They post a complete parts list on their site.... should give you an idea that this will not be as simple as your friend may be making it out to be- there will be lots of fabrication, your stang will be out of commission on a lift for a while, and the labor to fab your own turbo kit is going to be very expensive. (unless your friend is doing it for free/really cheap, or if you are tank here on this site
) With all that being said, a turbo is a great idea, just make sure your friend plans it out very well if you are doing a custom kit or go with a well known kit. The tuner kit on the hellion site meets your $5k budget. 
trombonedemon
Well-Known Member
Yep in so many ways.
Once thought about turboing my mustang until the realization of all the fabrication and welding skills that is needed.
If your up for a challenge and trust your mechanic guy then by all means make it a go, but turbos hit hard and can quickly throw out a main-bearing on a stock engine.
Whats wrong with the superchargers. Easier to maintain and the powerband seems to me more engine friendly, at least for a stock engine.
You are in my best wishes though.
trinity_gt
10 Year Member
You should get more than 400HP at the wheels with a turbo at 8psi assuming it's all done right.
Forced induction is one of the areas where "on the cheap" is a bad idea. You need to ask yourself if you can afford to replace the shortblock and bank that money before embarking on a project like this.
Check the complete parts list for the Hellion kit for 96-98s as Dark04 posted:
96-98 Mustang GT Single Turbo System - 350 to 850 HP
There are 85 individual items in that list. The list your friend gave you is ~6 items long. There's a reason why kits like that from Hellion are so expensive: They're fully developed, integrated, tested and thorough, bolt-in affairs. Basically turn-key. I think if you embark on a good home-spun turbo kit you'll eventually end up with a BOM with ~85 items and a COGs nearing or exceeding the outright cost from Hellion. And it probably still won't be as good as the kit.
This isn't to say home-brew stuff can't be done. Quite to the contrary. It's just that to do it right -- to have a good-running, reliable, solid car that doesn't look like **** under the hood -- you're probably best to save enough and just buy a kit from an established outfit like Hellion.
Q: Do you have emissions inspections to deal with in your locale?
Forced induction is one of the areas where "on the cheap" is a bad idea. You need to ask yourself if you can afford to replace the shortblock and bank that money before embarking on a project like this.
Check the complete parts list for the Hellion kit for 96-98s as Dark04 posted:
96-98 Mustang GT Single Turbo System - 350 to 850 HP
There are 85 individual items in that list. The list your friend gave you is ~6 items long. There's a reason why kits like that from Hellion are so expensive: They're fully developed, integrated, tested and thorough, bolt-in affairs. Basically turn-key. I think if you embark on a good home-spun turbo kit you'll eventually end up with a BOM with ~85 items and a COGs nearing or exceeding the outright cost from Hellion. And it probably still won't be as good as the kit.
This isn't to say home-brew stuff can't be done. Quite to the contrary. It's just that to do it right -- to have a good-running, reliable, solid car that doesn't look like **** under the hood -- you're probably best to save enough and just buy a kit from an established outfit like Hellion.
Q: Do you have emissions inspections to deal with in your locale?
Unfortunately we do have emission inspections, but anyways, I just want to get some headway in this project. Even if I don't get some super car Mustang out of just these parts, it's a start and that's what I want. Even if it I only get about 300 horse to the wheel, I would be perfectly happy with that because I would know that once I got enough money later, I'd be able to add more. I'm kinda getting mixed info though, I've been told by half the people I've talked with that this will work with no damage and then the other half say yeah you aren't gonna have a working engine after this. I'm slightly confused.
While turbos are very efficient, they must be well planned and executed. Who is designing the impellers for your set up? Is your guy gonna tune it or are you going to trailer it to a tuner? There are so very many questions and even more work fabricating all this. Yes, if your guy can pull it off and you get the computer work straight, the stock engine can handle 8#boost.
It is your car and your call but a supercharger is a much easier way to go and can net you the same results. Granted you will eat up some hp spinning the head unit but you can make that up and the supercharger is running whenever your engine is (belt/mechanically driven) and will not suffer from turbo lag (having to rev it to a sweet spot that creates enough exhaust gas velocity to make good boost with the impeller you have chosen). Personally I like the procharger self contained units for the street. You can adjust from 8 to 12# with the P1SC.
If you go turbo - you will likely have much greater downtime while installing and sorting it out.
It is your car and your call but a supercharger is a much easier way to go and can net you the same results. Granted you will eat up some hp spinning the head unit but you can make that up and the supercharger is running whenever your engine is (belt/mechanically driven) and will not suffer from turbo lag (having to rev it to a sweet spot that creates enough exhaust gas velocity to make good boost with the impeller you have chosen). Personally I like the procharger self contained units for the street. You can adjust from 8 to 12# with the P1SC.
If you go turbo - you will likely have much greater downtime while installing and sorting it out.
trinity_gt
10 Year Member
With turbos the choice of components is critical. For example, you can do more damage with a "small" turbo than a "large" turbo. A small turbo can spool very quickly, cause a boost spike and before you even know it you've broken the motor. A larger turbo may have some lag but the boost comes on more smoothly. But a large turbo may still spool quickly depending on its construction, the A/R ratio of the turbine, the characteristic of the turbine and housing, the wastegate and turbine-dump effectiveness, the exhaust plumbing etc etc. Piecing together a system from disparate parts is more likely to produce unfavorable outcomes because of this.
You'll need to get oil to and out of the center section. You may need coolant too (depending on the CHRA). Fittings, lines, punching into the oil pan... It all needs to be thought about.
The emissions issue may still exist, depending on where the cats end up in this system. The turbo robs heat from the exhaust stream. Close-coupling of the cats is no longer an option and packaging the cats far from the turbine housing means they'll run cooler (and less effectively...)
Go into this with your eyes wide open. If you can't swing a pre-engineered kit, a pieced-together centri or PD blower is probably better than a home-brew turbo kit.
I re-read your OP. Looks like it's your friend/buddy/mechanic's idea to turbo your car. Unless it's completely 100% your idea and you're comfortable with it, and it doesn't seem like you are, I'd stay away from the 6 piece home-brew turbo kit. As mentioned by the others replies, alot of damage can be done by a turbo setup if not done properly. While he might be able to do all the mechanical/install work being a head mechanic at a BMW shop, that doesn't mean he knows the ins/outs of designing a turbo system for your mustang. What works on a BMW may not necessarily work on your Ford. He's you're buddy, but if he messes up, it's your motor that's toast. Save up your $$ and get a known system and have him install it. Otherwise, it's a crap-shoot. My .02.
If you've actually built a turbocharged car, with a kit or from scratch, and you've given advice in this thread, please speak up.
As for me, I'm on my second turbo combo with a mustang and I've gone from a simple twin setup to a balls-out big single w/ a dart block. I love turbos and don't claim to be an expert, but know more than the average amatuer.
People are afraid of what they don't understand. That's why people talk with reservation about turbos. They speak with the same reservations of nitrous. For some reason, because superchargers are so much more common and simple, the same reservations are not there.
The fact is that you can absolutely build your own kit, or pay significantly less for someone who's willing to do it for less. However, I'd get a written contract for the work, because the guy you're talking about sounds shade-tree to me. I say that because I don't understand why you'd absolutely have to have a tubular k-member or an intercooler, for that matter. I would personally run the intercooler, but if you're on a budget the K-member is unnecessary. If he really knows his ****, then he wouldn't be trying to talk you into that unnecessary piece.
He's making it sound pretty simple... It isn't... the most challenging part of the work is the fabrication which takes a ton of welding and fitting to make things work right. Tapping the oil pan to run an oil line to the turbo and back is necessary, as mentioned. A boost gauge is, while not absolutely required, a really good idea to have. Don't forget tuning. In order to effectively tune the car you've got to have some sort of boost sensitive fuel pressure regulator.
If your car is really bone stock (A 94-98 model?), then don't expect to see more than about 300rwhp. A decent rule of thumb is to add (boost pressure/14.5)*n/a hp to your engine's baseline for an intercooled properly sized turbo. Those models make about 190rwhp and 8/14.5*190+190=294rwhp. That's a pretty conservative boost pressure, and I think you'd be fine pushing 12-15psi with a conservative tune. That would get you into the 350-390 rwhp range, but 15psi, in my opinion, is flirting with detonation or in it if you get bad pump gas one day.
There's good and bad advice in here so far. Some of the inaccurate stuff:
- 400rwhp No way at 8psi with an otherwise stock car
- superchargers. Easier to maintain and the powerband seems to me more engine friendly,Powerband depends on how you size a turbo. Smaller will spool at lower RPM, bigger will take more RPM to spool. My little twins started to spool below 2000 rpm. A single 61mm should spool very nicely on a 5.0. I'm guessing you'll see spool somewhere around 2000-2300 RPM. In my opinion, stick with a stockish cam for awesome street manners, shift it somewhere around 5500 rpm, keep the boost at 14psi or below, the AFR at 11.5:1 at full-throttle, and the power at less than 500rwhp, and you'll have a motor that lives a long healthy and most importantly fun life.
-you aren't gonna have a working engine after this Quality work, a quality tune, and sticking with my advice in the last bullet will prove this comment wrong. Though I suppose it depends on how worn your motor already is.
-A small turbo can spool very quickly, cause a boost spike and before you even know it you've broken the motor. nonsense! They spool at lower RPM, which is actually a good thing in a street car, but the only reason you'd see a boost spike is if your wastegate isn't doing its job, or if you're running an incorrectly set boost controler. It has nothing to do with the size of the turbo.
If you've got $5k to spend, getting a quality turbo kit built custom or shipped to you will not be a problem. I wouldn't personally take this guy up on just his word without a contract and a reference that you can go see with your own eyes. If he's done quality work and can show it to you, then that's a different story.
Good luck.
Chris
As for me, I'm on my second turbo combo with a mustang and I've gone from a simple twin setup to a balls-out big single w/ a dart block. I love turbos and don't claim to be an expert, but know more than the average amatuer.
People are afraid of what they don't understand. That's why people talk with reservation about turbos. They speak with the same reservations of nitrous. For some reason, because superchargers are so much more common and simple, the same reservations are not there.
The fact is that you can absolutely build your own kit, or pay significantly less for someone who's willing to do it for less. However, I'd get a written contract for the work, because the guy you're talking about sounds shade-tree to me. I say that because I don't understand why you'd absolutely have to have a tubular k-member or an intercooler, for that matter. I would personally run the intercooler, but if you're on a budget the K-member is unnecessary. If he really knows his ****, then he wouldn't be trying to talk you into that unnecessary piece.
He's making it sound pretty simple... It isn't... the most challenging part of the work is the fabrication which takes a ton of welding and fitting to make things work right. Tapping the oil pan to run an oil line to the turbo and back is necessary, as mentioned. A boost gauge is, while not absolutely required, a really good idea to have. Don't forget tuning. In order to effectively tune the car you've got to have some sort of boost sensitive fuel pressure regulator.
If your car is really bone stock (A 94-98 model?), then don't expect to see more than about 300rwhp. A decent rule of thumb is to add (boost pressure/14.5)*n/a hp to your engine's baseline for an intercooled properly sized turbo. Those models make about 190rwhp and 8/14.5*190+190=294rwhp. That's a pretty conservative boost pressure, and I think you'd be fine pushing 12-15psi with a conservative tune. That would get you into the 350-390 rwhp range, but 15psi, in my opinion, is flirting with detonation or in it if you get bad pump gas one day.
There's good and bad advice in here so far. Some of the inaccurate stuff:
- 400rwhp No way at 8psi with an otherwise stock car
- superchargers. Easier to maintain and the powerband seems to me more engine friendly,Powerband depends on how you size a turbo. Smaller will spool at lower RPM, bigger will take more RPM to spool. My little twins started to spool below 2000 rpm. A single 61mm should spool very nicely on a 5.0. I'm guessing you'll see spool somewhere around 2000-2300 RPM. In my opinion, stick with a stockish cam for awesome street manners, shift it somewhere around 5500 rpm, keep the boost at 14psi or below, the AFR at 11.5:1 at full-throttle, and the power at less than 500rwhp, and you'll have a motor that lives a long healthy and most importantly fun life.
-you aren't gonna have a working engine after this Quality work, a quality tune, and sticking with my advice in the last bullet will prove this comment wrong. Though I suppose it depends on how worn your motor already is.
-A small turbo can spool very quickly, cause a boost spike and before you even know it you've broken the motor. nonsense! They spool at lower RPM, which is actually a good thing in a street car, but the only reason you'd see a boost spike is if your wastegate isn't doing its job, or if you're running an incorrectly set boost controler. It has nothing to do with the size of the turbo.
If you've got $5k to spend, getting a quality turbo kit built custom or shipped to you will not be a problem. I wouldn't personally take this guy up on just his word without a contract and a reference that you can go see with your own eyes. If he's done quality work and can show it to you, then that's a different story.
Good luck.
Chris
trinity_gt
10 Year Member
My mistake. I've seen that sort of output for a PI motor but forgot this was NPI. FWIW, Hellion claims their "kit for the 96-98 Mustang GT will transform your car into a 400 hp. monster". Assuming this is true, that's about 340 to the wheels. Let's agree to split the difference.
If the components are not engineered to work together it's very possible to see boost spikes with small turbos that can damage the engine. For example, my daily is a VW GTI 1.8T. I can bolt on a Borg Warner K04-001 turbo and, if I don't plumb in a MBC in parallel with the factory boost control valve I can generate boost spikes that will bend rods. This from a turbo with a dollar-sized 40mm inducer... I could also bolt on a GT35R that will not build boost until 4000RPM that will pose little threat to the engine until 7000RPM and even then only if I've set the boost level to some ludicrous value.
Re-read my posts. Most are making the point that a favorable trait of kits like those from Hellion is that they are engineered, not cobbled together and that all the components are selected, tuned and engineered to work together.
Again, no. Did hellion say that it would do it at 8psi? 340rwhp or 400 at the crank is certainly possible with a kit like that... With the 61mm that the OP mentioned, it's probably capable of closer to 600rwhp, but not at 8 psi, and not with the stock internals. With an otherwise bone stock GT, it's gonna be pretty close to 300rwhp. 10 psi should put you in that ball park.
Your original point was that small turbos are somehow riskier than bigger turbos. They aren't. With improperly designed components, for example a wastegate in the wrong place, you will see boost spikes whether the turbo is small or large. Spool RPM will obviously change, but the boost spikes will remain.
and my point is supported by your statement. If your wastegate is too small it can't divert enough air around the turbo. If it isn't, and it's functioning properly, the size of the turbo doesn't matter 40mm or 101mm... It doesn't matter.
Your original point was that small turbos are somehow riskier than bigger turbos. They aren't. With improperly designed components, for example a wastegate in the wrong place, you will see boost spikes whether the turbo is small or large. Spool RPM will obviously change, but the boost spikes will remain.
and my point is supported by your statement. If your wastegate is too small it can't divert enough air around the turbo. If it isn't, and it's functioning properly, the size of the turbo doesn't matter 40mm or 101mm... It doesn't matter.
trinity_gt
10 Year Member
First, wastegates don't divert "air around the turbo".
Second, it's simple physics: A smaller turbo with a lower moment of inertia will spool up faster than a larger turbo. I stand by my point that even a small turbo can damage a motor if the system is not properly engineered. The overarching point is that a collection of parts, if not designed to work together, can be a hazard to the engine. I used a specific case to illustrate the point and gave a real-world example to back it up. Feel free to obsess further and argue just for the sake of argument if you like but my point has been made and I'm done with you.
BULLITT5228
Member
Really?
! I guess that explains your boost spikes! 
Seriously, you're going to argue with me about what a wastegate does?
Unless you're going to argue semantics and say that exhaust isn't air, then you have no leg to stand on, because diverting exhaust from before the turbine to after the turbine without actually going through the turbine is precisely what they do. I suppose you can divert your air to the atmosphere but 99% of street cars don't. What did you think they do?
That's not the point. In fact, I stated exactly that. Get lost man...I'm not interested in arguing about this, either. Obviously, a small turbo is not more dangerous or likely to spike than a large one. If you agree with that point, then there's nothing to argue about, anyway. Spooling faster is a good thing, not a bad one.
Whether intentional or not, the way you've phrased this leads other to believe they should go with a large turbo that spools more slowly instead of a small one, which isn't necessarily right. With the wrong components/construction, any turbo can boost spike. With an appropriately sized W/G installed in the right place, no turbo, regardless of size, will boost spike.
Minimizing spool time vs. maximizing the turbo's efficiency with your combination is how to correctly size a turbo.
trinity_gt
10 Year Member
Really?
Seriously, you're going to argue with me about what a wastegate does?
Unless you're going to argue semantics and say that exhaust isn't air, then you have no leg to stand on, because diverting exhaust from before the turbine to after the turbine without actually going through the turbine is precisely what they do. I suppose you can divert your air to the atmosphere but 99% of street cars don't. What did you think they do?
It's not semantics. There are devices on the compressor side that do divert "air": A blow-off valve, for instance, prevents compressor surge by venting to the atmosphere. A diverter or recirculating valve does basically the same thing except instead of venting to the atmosphere it bridges the compressor outlet to the inlet to maintain intake air volume and reduce noise.
But the point is you said "air." Exhaust is not "air" and it's egregious to lazily interchange the terms (especially in a thread about turbos where half the turbo does indeed deal with air) in a thread where people are trying to learn something, moreso when the person doing it is coming off, intentionally or not, as some sort of arrogant know-it-all picking the fly**** out of the pepper in other people's posts.
I thought you were done with me. You're wrong for the 4th time in this thread (1. 400rwhp, 2. smaller turbo's are more likely to damage a motor than big ones, 3. 340rwhp, 4. Sematics). You are arguing semantics, in this case the meaning of the word air...
Semantics:
1. The branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning.
2. The meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text: "such quibbling over semantics may seem petty stuff"
I call exhaust "air" and an engine a "motor," and people will continue to understand my meaning. Thanks. When someone corrects someone else for saying "naws," I don't consider them enlightened, I consider them a douche-bag, even though I don't say "naws" myself. I use the work "kleenex" when what I mean is a tissue. I guess that's all pretty "egregious" to you. I don't care.
Here are some points for the OP:
- roughly 300 rwhp at 8psi bone stock (not 340 or 400). Use the rule of thumb: (NA hp * boost/14.5) + NA power to get your good approximation of the power your motor is going to make. This works with both rwhp and hp, and it's fairly accurate, but never exact. Really well built turbo combinations can actually result in more power than this formula gives, though it's rare. Non-intercooled combos almost never do, and turbos outside of their efficiency range never do either. For your combo, pick a compressor size between 60mm and 70mm to ensure the combination of quick spool, plenty of power, and excellent affordability. I'm personally a big fan of the MP T70s.
- Small turbos and big turbos both boost spike when not correctly plumbed - get a big enough waste gate and the rules of thumb for wastegates are: Closer to the turbo flange = better, put the wastegate after the collector to ensure you're venting from both banks if you can, plumb it so it's at 45* so that exhaust exits the general direction it's already moving. Plumb to the outside of a bend in an exhaust pipe. None of those rules are hard and fast, they all just make the wastegate's job easier. Other rules of thumb: running less boost or a bigger engine with the same turbo = bigger wastegate. A smaller turbine (exhaust side of a turbo) will require a bigger wastegate given the same compressor (intake side of a turbo).
- The only thing you're paying all that extra money for when you buy a Hellion, HP, or other kit is the comfort of knowing exactly what you're going to get... that an a stamp with their company's name on it. With a custom kit, it's only as good as the person you're hiring... buyer beware. Still, find someone who does know what he's doing, and save thousands in the process. If you don't get a turbo with the kit, HP, Hellion, etc... will still charge you thousands, and the components don't add up to kit price if purchased seperately.
- If you're interested enough to read, and have an ambition to do things right, don't shy away from a turbo. The finished product is superior to any other type of power adder. It's worth the effort. Take a look at Rio 95's numbers. That's just so impressive to me. Explorer heads, a super mild cam, and a basic intake through a stock throttle body no less! + a 12 psi turbo and he's putting down 472 at the wheels, and a bone-crushing 580 ft-lbs of torque. That's a super-simple super cost-effective way to make that much power. That combo is about 260 rwhp n/a, give or take a few. I'd like to see a blower or nitroused car that makes power as reliably as it does
If you look at how flat that hp curve is, there's really no reason to push it higher than 5500 rpm or so. I'll bet that combo lives a long time as long as he keeps the RPM down. Hell, he actually states in his post that he's been running it that way for the past 5 years.
My twin combo was very similar. I had GT40X heads, a GT40 intake, and a stock cam and made 420rwhp at 10 psi, which is pretty consistent with the number's he's pushing considering he has a more efficicient turbo at 2 extra psi, and more aggressive cam. Running a blower at the same boost levels would cost a little power on the top and a hell of a lot more torque. The other way to make that kind of power is with a 200 shot of nitrous, which can probably be done, but I wouldn't do it on a stock block and internals.
Semantics:
1. The branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning.
2. The meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text: "such quibbling over semantics may seem petty stuff"
I call exhaust "air" and an engine a "motor," and people will continue to understand my meaning. Thanks. When someone corrects someone else for saying "naws," I don't consider them enlightened, I consider them a douche-bag, even though I don't say "naws" myself. I use the work "kleenex" when what I mean is a tissue. I guess that's all pretty "egregious" to you. I don't care.
Here are some points for the OP:
- roughly 300 rwhp at 8psi bone stock (not 340 or 400). Use the rule of thumb: (NA hp * boost/14.5) + NA power to get your good approximation of the power your motor is going to make. This works with both rwhp and hp, and it's fairly accurate, but never exact. Really well built turbo combinations can actually result in more power than this formula gives, though it's rare. Non-intercooled combos almost never do, and turbos outside of their efficiency range never do either. For your combo, pick a compressor size between 60mm and 70mm to ensure the combination of quick spool, plenty of power, and excellent affordability. I'm personally a big fan of the MP T70s.
- Small turbos and big turbos both boost spike when not correctly plumbed - get a big enough waste gate and the rules of thumb for wastegates are: Closer to the turbo flange = better, put the wastegate after the collector to ensure you're venting from both banks if you can, plumb it so it's at 45* so that exhaust exits the general direction it's already moving. Plumb to the outside of a bend in an exhaust pipe. None of those rules are hard and fast, they all just make the wastegate's job easier. Other rules of thumb: running less boost or a bigger engine with the same turbo = bigger wastegate. A smaller turbine (exhaust side of a turbo) will require a bigger wastegate given the same compressor (intake side of a turbo).
- The only thing you're paying all that extra money for when you buy a Hellion, HP, or other kit is the comfort of knowing exactly what you're going to get... that an a stamp with their company's name on it. With a custom kit, it's only as good as the person you're hiring... buyer beware. Still, find someone who does know what he's doing, and save thousands in the process. If you don't get a turbo with the kit, HP, Hellion, etc... will still charge you thousands, and the components don't add up to kit price if purchased seperately.
- If you're interested enough to read, and have an ambition to do things right, don't shy away from a turbo. The finished product is superior to any other type of power adder. It's worth the effort. Take a look at Rio 95's numbers. That's just so impressive to me. Explorer heads, a super mild cam, and a basic intake through a stock throttle body no less! + a 12 psi turbo and he's putting down 472 at the wheels, and a bone-crushing 580 ft-lbs of torque. That's a super-simple super cost-effective way to make that much power. That combo is about 260 rwhp n/a, give or take a few. I'd like to see a blower or nitroused car that makes power as reliably as it does
If you look at how flat that hp curve is, there's really no reason to push it higher than 5500 rpm or so. I'll bet that combo lives a long time as long as he keeps the RPM down. Hell, he actually states in his post that he's been running it that way for the past 5 years.
My twin combo was very similar. I had GT40X heads, a GT40 intake, and a stock cam and made 420rwhp at 10 psi, which is pretty consistent with the number's he's pushing considering he has a more efficicient turbo at 2 extra psi, and more aggressive cam. Running a blower at the same boost levels would cost a little power on the top and a hell of a lot more torque. The other way to make that kind of power is with a 200 shot of nitrous, which can probably be done, but I wouldn't do it on a stock block and internals.
hehe. Ash, you started this show - you still watching?
opcorn:
I don't think I was mentioned as being wrong by anyone yet and am feeling a little left out. I still concede that turbos are more efficient but still prefer a supercharger. Much easier and I hate dealing with exhaust bolts..
Picking the best turbo for an application is far more science. The size does matter but you also have to consider the exhaust size, engine size, etc. The same amount of exhaust gas passing through a smaller pipe will move at a higher velocity which will spool up a turbo faster but decrease top end because it cannot breathe. That being said, you cannot go to Holland and spin a windmill with any amount of velocity through a soda straw. The exhaust has to fall in a clear sized range for the impeller for a given application. Otherwise you are rolling the dice and will sacrifice something.
I would not consider an intercooler optional on a turbo set up though. Hotter air will take you that much closer to detonation and cooler air is denser meaning more power. If you are going to go through all the headache of installing a turbo, put in an intercooler. I would also make sure that your cooling system is up to par since we are going to take the hot exhaust gas and heat trace the engine compartment with it.
opcorn:I don't think I was mentioned as being wrong by anyone yet and am feeling a little left out. I still concede that turbos are more efficient but still prefer a supercharger. Much easier and I hate dealing with exhaust bolts..
Picking the best turbo for an application is far more science. The size does matter but you also have to consider the exhaust size, engine size, etc. The same amount of exhaust gas passing through a smaller pipe will move at a higher velocity which will spool up a turbo faster but decrease top end because it cannot breathe. That being said, you cannot go to Holland and spin a windmill with any amount of velocity through a soda straw. The exhaust has to fall in a clear sized range for the impeller for a given application. Otherwise you are rolling the dice and will sacrifice something.
I would not consider an intercooler optional on a turbo set up though. Hotter air will take you that much closer to detonation and cooler air is denser meaning more power. If you are going to go through all the headache of installing a turbo, put in an intercooler. I would also make sure that your cooling system is up to par since we are going to take the hot exhaust gas and heat trace the engine compartment with it.
Not that you need me to corroborate your explanations, but that's all pretty good advice, Lugnuts. That must be why no one said you were wrong.
Chris
Chris