Are My Lifters Bad?

[FoxMustangLvr]

I have FRPP roller lifters. Today I removed my lower intake and pulled all of my lifters out. As I pulled them out I pushed on the tops of them where the push rod would be in contact. A couple of them had give in them and the tops were springy. Most other, maybe a dozen had no play in them on the top. How are they supposed to be? Spring like or stiff on top when you push with your finger? My engine has been removed from my Mustang for about 18 months.

Thanks for you help!

-Matt

 

[FoxMustangLvr]

@Noobz347 @Gearbanger 101

Sorry, this thread should be in tech. Move me please.

 

[Noobz347]

@Noobz347 @Gearbanger 101

Sorry, this thread should be in tech. Move me please.

 

[jrichker]

After sitting for 18 months, there is a high degree of probability that the lifters leaked most of the oil out of them. Soak then overnight in motor oil and see if that helps. According to Comp Cams this is advisable but not necessary with roller cam lifters.

See http://www.compcams.com/Instructions/Files/COMP4-115.pdf or http://www.cranecams.com/uploads/instructions/568e_.pdf for more information.

 

[FoxMustangLvr]

I'll try soaking them in oil to see if it will unlock the frozen lifters. From a little more research the tops where the push rod makes contact should spring up and down about 3/16". Most of mine are frozen.

@jrichker I've heard and read a lot of different ways to set up the rocker arms. Some (like the info you provided) will suggest getting to zero lash then going 1/8 turn. I have pedestal RR's, will this work for this type or should I stick to 18-20 ft pounds of torque within 1/4-1 turn? I don't want valve train noise nor valve float on high rpms.

One thing I know for sure is I can't achieve zero lash on most of my pushrods with the lifter on base circle without my lifters being pumped up. It's clear to me now that I do NOT want to pump up my lifters, only oil them for lubrication. I did the math, I need 6.3" pushrods which I'll order along with shims this next week. I'm really hating valve train right now, I really want to avoid wasting money so it's very important to order things right the first time.

Thanks for the help and If I've missed something please chime in.

 

[Dave2000GT]

I think your lifters are OK. It's normal for some to be more spongy than others because as the motor sits there doing nothing, some lifters have the spring pressure sitting on them forcing oil to slowly bleed out while others (most) will be on the cam base circle and not bleed out. That's why most will seem 'frozen' while there might be some that move a bit, because they have had the oil bled down. When adjusting, they should be left to sit un-sprung (base circle or loosened rocker) for a bit (I think I've head like 5 minutes ??) to allow the internal spring to push them back up. I think it happens pretty quick once they are on the base circle, but everyone says paranoid stuff so I think that's where the 5 mins comes from.

The 18-20lb ft torque is REQUIRED to hold the rockers in place, for pedestal mounts it's a matter of getting the correct shims in place to get the desired preload. 1/4-1 turn is the factory recommended amount to ensure longevity, but most research I've done leads me to believe the less the better, with some experienced builders recommnded close to zero preload, or like 1/8 to 1/4 turn at most. With aluminum heads I think 1/4 turn is minimum because they expand differnt than iron, which can go less preload than that. I personally experienced a big power gain by going from 3/4-1 turn preload down to 1/4 - 1/2 turn. I'd like to go less but need more precise shims to be able to do so.

 

[jrichker]

Michael Yount’s valve adjustment procedure

Here's an easy way to determine this. Start with the #1 cylinder. Rotate the engine with a ratchet on the crank bolt clockwise. Watch the #1 pushrods. First the exhaust pushrod will rise and fall signaling what would be the exhaust valve opening and closing if the rocker were on. As it closes the intake pushrod will rise -- keep rotating clockwise until the intake pushrod falls and is level with the exhaust pushrod - both at the same height. Both lifters are now on the base circle of the cam - both valves would be closed if the rockers were on.

Now, install both rockers. Tighten the bolts with one hand while rocking the rocker with the other hand - continue until you reach the point where you can't 'rock' the rocker any more because there's no gap on the valve stem end or the pushrod end. You are at zero lash - i.e. - no gaps. Stop tightening just as you reach this point.

Now, put your torque wrench on the bolt and tighten it to 18-20 ft-lbs while counting the number of turns it takes to reach the torque. You should hit the torque within 1/4 to 1 turn of the bolt. If it takes more than 1 turn, use a shim to raise the rocker -- each .030" shim will reduce the number of turns to torque by about 1/4 turn. If you reach the torque in less than a 1/4 turn, or you have trouble reaching zero lash even at full torque, then you'll either need longer pushrods, or to CAREFULLY remove some material from the bottom of the rocker fulcrum. Using the procedure described above, you will work through the remaining 7 pairs of rockers. If you follow the firing order, it will minimize the manual cranking you have to do to get the lifters on the base circle of the cam prior to installation of the next pair.

When I first went through mine, 13 of them took no shims; 3 of them took 1 .030" shim. Upon cranking it up, one or two of them sounded a bit noisier than I thought was right, so with the engine hot, I pulled the upper off, and the valve covers, and went through the installation procedure again. That time, 11 of them took no shims; 4 of them took one .030", and one of them took one .060" shim. And they were very quiet running.

Good luck with it.
__________________
Michael Yount - K'ville,TN 82 Volvo 242w/5.0L; 2000 Suzuki Bandit 1200

 

[FoxMustangLvr]

Thanks for the input @jrichker @Dave2000GT

This install info seems consistent and correct and is the way I'm doing it now. I ordered new lifter which will be in on Friday. My old lifters were about 10 years old and have been sitting a while so I think it's best to just replace with new especially since my push rods and RR's are new too.

Once I get the new lifters i'll measure my push rod lengths again and then order them along with shims. I will add 0.03" to the length for lifter preload. I will try to achieve 18-20 ft lbs in less than a 1/2 turn after zero lash.

So far my lengths for zero lash (plus preload) are as follows:
cyl #1
int- 6.2375" +.03"= 6.2675"
ex- 6.275" +.03"= 6.305"

cyl #4
int- 6.25" +.03"= 6.30"
ex- 6.275" +.03"= 6.305"

cyl #5
int- 6.23125" +.03"= 6.26125"
ex- 6.25625" +.03"= 6.28625"

cyl #8
int- 6.225" +.03"= 6.255"
ex- 6.25" +.03"= 6.30"

So I'm thinking (if nothing changes with new lifters) that 6.30" push rods are what I need and some rockers will need shims. Opinions are welcome, I'm no whiz with this stuff. I used the Comp Cams adjustable push rod tool where every turn equals .05".