$2500 to spend part II

[steede302]

after my last thread and some wise words from Grady , I feel I need to start over . I tried to keep my first post short, but I soon realized that I was gonna get better advice and ideas if I told the whole story and plan for my car. My car is curently a daily driver, not of neccesity but because of the love I have for driving it.

My future plans for the car is to have a well manered 400-450 hp/tq street car that I can drive the 7 mile round trip to work and make the occasionl FFW or NMRA event in my state. Im not trying to build an all out strip car, but something that I can enjoy on a regular basis.

Im good with renches and can do most all the work myself and with the help of my friend( he has a sub 10sec rx7, ill get some pics soon). I have a lot of contacts in the area and with the help of all of them and the great people on :SNSign: I believe I can acheive my goals.

Ive broken my project into 4 phases with each phase taking about a year to complete( due to finances) each year around march I get a 3000$ bonus that I will be using to fund my project, plus about 150- 200 a month at least 8 months out of the year. The bonus allows me to accumulate a lot of parts at once and then use the monthly to fill in the gaps.

Phase one- purchase car and ensure its dependable: my budget was $5000. After months of looking at pos and teenaged abused rags around here I found one 107 miles away with no picture on autotrader for 3600 bucks. I called the seller and asked some questions and was pretty excited but apprehensive about what he told me about the car. I decided to take a chance and go see it cause everything around here in my price range was junk. he told me I wouldnt be dissapointed, bring cash, and if I didnt buy it he would give me $20 for gas for the drive. When I got there I was amazed to see the car was EXACTLY the way he described on the phone. After a quick test drive, and realizing I wasnt going to make it home on the tires it had on it, and the ac was busted I talked him down to $3000 and I purchased a one owner, non molested, senior citizen owned( he was 55 when he bought it new) 101k miles on it, completely stock right down to the original plugs. the ac was shot and it needed tires badly( it sat for 1yr before he sold it, the tires were dry rotted and u should have seen the coolant) I think I got it for dam good price. Left there and drove the 1/2 mile to tires plus and dropped 400 on some decent tires and then went home.
With the 1600 I had left I installed a new ac system( comp, condensor, dryer and new lines) did a complete tune up, flushed the coolant, had a fuel injection service done, Changed all belts and hoses, thermostat, and overhauled the brakes. And over the rest of the year I got the windows tinted, installed a stereo, white face gauges, cut the cats off, yanked the emissions crap, and installed flowmaster( the car still had the stock mufflers on it).
Phase one is complete and so is this year. On to phase two

Phase two: suspension, exhaust, paint

Phase three: tko, clutch, gears and supporting items for phase 4

phase four: motor( this is where it gets interesting) possibly a 331 or 351 H/C/I with ( dont laugh ) a homebuilt turbo system running 8- 14 psi ( hopefully as low as possible to achieve my goal). People have done this before, and I have no reason to think I cant.



Parts list for phase two $2500 budget
Tokico hp shocks,struts and springs
new bushings in the front
frpp uca's
steeda lca's
fms alum driveshaft( will this work with the tko)
bbk shorties( I can also modify these for use in the turbo setup)
steeda tri ax shifter
3.55 gears ( im going to go ahead and purchase the gears and see if I can get them installed in 08, will these be good with a turbo setup or should i get 3.73?)
thats about 1500 in parts with the rest going for paint.

Sorry for such a long post but I felt it neccessary in order to get the proper feed back. If anyone sees anything wrong with the parts ive chosen please dont hesitate to speak up.

Thanks

James

 

[BlownFiveLiter]

I don't see any reason you couldn't have a very streetable 351 based engine in your desired power level with no forced induction of any sort. If you do decide to turbo, stick with 3.08-3.27 gears. You'll already blow the tires off when you make boost, so you don't need a lower gear to aid in killing your traction. That will help you stay in your powerband longer with each gear, as well.

 

[steede302]

Parts list update:

forget the headers
im gonna do a m5400-a bullitt suspension( only $59 more than the hp kit but comes with f/r sway bars. probably the best way to go for me.)
and I forgot the sub-frame conectors.

Are the steeda lca's and the frpp uca's good enough to support 400-450 hp/tq?

Thanks all

 

[final5-0]

I think the things Matt said makes a lot of sense

This last post makes me want to change some things I said based upon what
you wanna do.

I have thought long and hard in the past about a home built turbo just as you
speak about here.

I gotta tell you ... I think you can do all you want ...and more ... with less effort
and expense

Boost from a blower is one thing ... its like
but
Boost from a turbo ... its all that and more ... its like

I won't go into all the details but I spent a lot of time on a forum in the Yahoo
Groups that was based upon home built ... junkyard C A R B turbos.

What those guys have done is unbelievable
but
Even more unbelievable is ... What they did with so little

RWHP solidly in the 400's with stock OEM parts
Turbos from the junk yard
Intercoolers from the junk yard
Piping from where ever they found it

I mean ... some of these guys only have $1000 to $1500 in their combo

With a turbo ... you need NO stroker to make block splitting power

Above ... I said less effort and expense ... based upon ........
400 to 450 rwhp and a Street Car with stock or close to stock drivability

My thoughts are along these three lines

1) Do up a home built turbo with a stock block

2 Do up a blower on a stock block

Both of these PA combos will give you your power goal
without
The expense of a fancy and expensive stroker block
yet
It will be reliable with a good tune

As for an all motor combo

3) 347 Stroker with reasonable parts

Forged this and that are not really ... must have items

Now ... this combo will lope a bit at lights so a sleeper it won't be

For 400 or a bit better to the wheels

Why the need for B O T H forced induction AND stroker
Why the need for a Windsor that will cause issues a 347 will not

Just some more thoughts with a focus on ... simplicity and budget
You know ... Most bang for the least buck spent

Not saying you shouldn't spend money on Dart Blocks and the like
Just saying you can reach your goal without all that ... thats all

O Yeah ... About the gear ratio with turbos

Less steep gears help it spool up quicker cause they place more
of a load on the motor

Of Course ... The bottle would be the least effort and expense
Well ... To get it installed ... You do have to pay for each and every bottle fill
so
You really do need to think about ........
the added cost that keeps growing over time with its use

In all fairness it should be considered as it will make good power as well

Grady

 

[Killercanary]

Before I would purchase any suspension pieces I'd rethink things here for a minute. In my opinion, with the added weight of a turbo and/or a 351 based block up front, I'd want to drop as much weight as possible there. I'd be looking into a tubular K member with coil overs up front. You really can't beat coil-overs IMO. They move the pivot point of the front suspension outward which in iteself makes for a better handling car, you can control the ride height, and coil over springs are cheap and easy enough to change that if you want to experiment with different rates its fairly easy to do. You will lose roughly 60+lbs off of the nose of the car as well. For the rear, a good set of LCA's will help a lot now, and can be used with a panhard bar and torque arm later if you so desire. I'm running a similar suspension on my car right now with a tubular k member and coil overs up front and LCA's with bullitt springs in the rear.

 

[steede302]

Excellent advice by all, im sure we can discuss more motor options in the future, right now I am just wanting to focus on suspension and supporting hardware.

KC although coil-overs and k-member sound really good, I think I would like to keep the majority of the parts FMS ( just my preference) and I have heard many people rave about the bullitt suspension kit.

I know im gonna get the 5400 susp. kit
03 cobra A-arms ( these seem to be recomended with 5400 susp kit)
the fms alum driveshaft is a no-brainer( Will this work with a TKO?????)
fms uca's( everyone seems to recommend these)
steeda lca's ( or would a set of say mac uppers and lowers handle my hp requirments?)
sub connectors( dont know which ones yet, but def weld in with cross brace)
new bushings in the front

Are c/c plates a requirement with a 1" drop?

I know there is alot that can be discussed here, but I hope to focus on phase two until I have it figured out, and then move forward with the others.

Thanks everyone for all the feedback
you guys are great.

 

[Zero_chance]

I think you have a relatively good thought process and at least a general idea of where you want to go. Im still thinking about hwere I want to go and usually have different ideas every week. One simple suggestion about paint in stage 2... Ive found its usually better to wait and save the paint for last just in case you decide to add a different hood (usually necessary if you go 351) or different body pieces that way everythings sprayed at the same time and looks uniform. Then theres always the case of dropping something on the fenders etc and scratching up the car during engine removal or install. If it was me, paint would be the final touch.

 

[Car Nut]

Probably won't need c/c plates, but that will be determined when you get an alignment done with the new parts.

For K-memeber purposes, you might want to consider MMs K member brace. Can't remember the price, but it will strengthen the stock setup. I thought it was a good mod, as it sharpened the steering input pretty well. Took like 15 minutes to install.

Just about any sub will do, as long as it has the cross brace for the seat bolts.

 

[Pokageek]

Two schools of thought..you can go big c.i. power but I agree with Grady on staying with the smallblock or 347 or under and going HUGE Ass turbo. It will cost less and still rock.

Personally, I went big C.I. because I wanted N/A after dealing with turbo "issues" and tuning once b4. Plus, I wanted just raw c.i. power and always wanted a huge ass motor. My cam is too big though..I wish I would have gone less cam now because it rocks and rolls too much. I want smoother running operation. I may or may not change that. BUT I can tell yo uthat changing over from 5.0 base to 351 based engine is a PIA.

 

[94fordmustanggt]

honestly man maybe it's just me but I would stay away from the MAC lca's. Haven't had good luck with the bushings in mine.

 

[final5-0]

My cam is too big though..I wish I would have gone less cam now because it rocks and rolls too much. I want smoother running operation. I may or may not change that.

Hey Keith

A thought or two for you my friend

I can tell you there is a good chance a smoother idle could be found with some
pcm value optimization.

With my sig combo's low 109 lsa cam ...
it was really rough at first

I found some help after I fooled around with the more commonly known major
things like better inj values and a bit of spark manipulation

I then found a MUCH smoother and more stable idle when I started working
with my inj timing values

Of all the improvement I made with the idle ........

I would say i got about 40% with the simple stuff
and
The other 60% was with the inj timing table

Bottom line is .......

The various drivability issues that can and most likely will crop up with a
serious combo just takes a bit more effort with research and trial & error.

It is in this part of tuning where a basic grasp of how the pcm works helps
one in SO many ways. The better one has learned the basics here ... the less
effort one will need to spend with the trial & error kinda thing

This is where I feel the Tweecer is king

One has hard data to tell them what is going on that is hosed up

Hard data that verifys their tweecs are on the right track and tells
them a bit more or less of a change is needed.

And the most important benefit of self tuning ... As I see it

One has the ability to fine tune things to their satisfaction
NO MATTER HOW LONG IT TAKES :Word:

When someone else does the tuning ...
I always wonder the about the following things

Do they really understand the 94-95 pcm
Did they even deal with parameters that would help a particular issue
Did they just get a bit closer .......
to what things really should be

A shop is a business ..........
They can only spend so much time with a tune before they loose money

anyway

Some work with the tune might help
and
Seems it would be easier than a cam change to me

Stay after it Keith
It can take a bit of time to make a nice combo like that bug free

Grady

 

[Pokageek]

Thanks alot Grady!! I will look into this. On my 306 they tuned it out! by pulling fuel below 2400. But I lost low end! So this time Iwas afraid to have them do it. Oh and BTW my starting issue was solved by YOU! They changed the startup tables and FIXED!!!

 

[final5-0]

Thanks alot Grady!! I will look into this. On my 306 they tuned it out! by pulling fuel below 2400. But I lost low end! So this time Iwas afraid to have them do it. Oh and BTW my starting issue was solved by YOU! They changed the startup tables and FIXED!!!

See there Keith

A self tuner type of guy would have put things back to like they were
when he noticed the loss of low end torque and went to plan "B" to
fix that problem

I just can't stress how for me ... it always boils down to this fact :Word:

self tuning give one the MOST possible options
and
the ability to control ALL of them

I'm glad I could help with your start up issues

Hey James

I know you wanted to stay focused upon Phase 1

I gotta say to you ... I'm sorry about two things

1) I did not stay focused and hijacked your thread
2) I'm afraid I might have exposed Phase 5 to your plans

Grady

 

[steede302]

No problem Grady.
I can see that a tweecer is in my future.

I have finalyzed my list of suspension components, let me know what you guys think.

bullitt susp kit m 5400-a
03 cobra a-arms
end link kit
m/m rack bushings
strut bushings
subframe connectors m/m
lca's pro3
uca's frpp
driveshaft frpp

Around $1200-$1300. That should about do it for the susp.

All that and I still have $1200 left to spend.
What to do what to do.

 

[Car Nut]

No problem Grady.
I can see that a tweecer is in my future.

I have finalyzed my list of suspension components, let me know what you guys think.

bullitt susp kit m 5400-a
03 cobra a-arms
end link kit
m/m rack bushings
strut bushings
subframe connectors m/m
lca's pro3
uca's frpp
driveshaft frpp

Around $1200-$1300. That should about do it for the susp.

All that and I still have $1200 left to spend.
What to do what to do.

Honestly, I would stick with what you've listed above and enjoy the new ride quality and performance/handling gains. After a while, you'll have an idea if you want more handling capability and what parts to consider.

Good luck and enjoy!

 

[AznStanger3v]

nitrous.. what?! where am i?

anyways, tubular k member is a MUST for any bad ass suspension setup. Paul (killercanary) is definently no noob when it comes to know his shieza.