300hp N/A v6, how to.

[fazm83]

Thats pretty good. But with that much power, you should be pullin on me in the quarter mile, not the other way around. Your 60' time is almost .2 better than me, yet, im finishing quicker in the quarter. I know a manual trans has a lot to do with that, but an extra 25hp would deifnately even things out.

Yours actually doesnt spike as bad as most of the ones i've seen. I remember some guy claiming his GT had 343rwhp or somin like that with just a tune. Dont think he ever posted a dyno chart, but im pretty sure it had a peak in it just like that.

 

[fazm83]

I did hear that the tune helps the auto more than the manual though because of the off the line acceleration. I've raced an 05 auto from a dead stop, and within 1st gear i was already over a car length ahead.

 

[j0nkatz]

Hmmm

Weather could play a part in it.
The track was 100degrees last night @ about 90% humidity.
That will kill a car's times.

 

[fazm83]

ya no kiddin it will. Im going to go tonight, track temp will be crazy since the air temp will be 106 lol. If i run high 15's ill be happy.

 

[Zodiac]

Yup, good luck hooking up fazm lol. Its probably going to be pushing upwards of 120 off the track and god help with that humidity. Dont run it to hard and give the tires a good burn out before you run. If you're having long waits in line be sure to let the car cool itself efficently and not run the accesories too hard.

Has anyone taken a GTech to the track yet to run it right next to the track timer?

 

[Jimp]

I got my GTech today from that Ebay link that MSP posted and it doesn't work. As in, won't even turn on. Guess that was too good to be true. I'll be getting my money back though.

 

[5-SpeedStallion]

I think the 2 valve head may be the biggest stumbling block on the road to a 6000+ rpm motor. Hog out the ports and install larger valves?? Aftermarket heads? Hmmmm.

The 2 valve head shouldn't keep you from doing anything... the Z06 has a 2-valve head, too. Of course, that's a totally different animal , but the NUMBER of valves is not what's important, it's the Volumetric flow of the valves. For instance, "Stock 4V heads flow 260 cfm intake and 201 cfm exhaust @ .550." That's pretty dang good for a stock head, but I just purchased a set a P&P heads for my 3.8L Pushrod V6 that flow 235 cfm intake @ the same lift. Not too shabby for a STOCK head w/ a little P&P. With these heads, the stiffer valve springs, new cam, and RR's that are all on the way or in my posession, my car will rev to 6000 w/ ease, so it is certainly doable to rev the 4.0 to 6000+ (I would have thought the redline was near that, anyway) especially being SOHC. Also, there are several companies that make much better flowing heads than that, too. I believe that some have eclipsed the 300 cfm mark, which is amazing. Of course, you have to shell out some money, but if Super Six Motorsports' (mentioned earlier to already have 4.0 parts) 3.8 can make 280whp N/A and they still say there's room to grow, I'm sure the 4.0 can do the same.

Anyway, just some encouragement to my V6 brethren. The 3.8 was in a similar situation not long ago w/ not much aftermarket support, but you guys have a decent amount already and its only going to get better. So good luck guys... and if I were serious about the 4.0, I'd give Super Six Motorsports a call. They certainly know what they're doing w/ the 3.8 so I press them to do even more w/ the 4.0. Again, good luck.

 

[fazm83]

Jimp, i thought the same thing bout mine when i got it. I just took it out completely, played with the switches, plugged it back into the car (make sure it REALLY gets pushed in there, its sensitive for me for some reason) and the flip the switch to the left.

 

[5-SpeedStallion]

You dont find it odd that your peak numbers come at a spike on your dyno chart? You usually have to ignore those spikes. I've seen more than 1 automatic spike at that rpm, they say it has something to do with the torque converter i believe.

If you ignore the spike, you are around 198, which is what most people are gettin after a tune.

Yeah, your torque converter locked up, so that is an artificial spike, but 198whp from a chip-only auto is pretty dang good. A chip-only auto 99-04 would make 160whp on a good day.

 

[fazm83]

Zodiac. Dealer just called me and my car wont be ready until monday, so it looks like no tracktime for me. I took my car in last thursday (so its already been 8 days) to get my a/c fixed, my seat recliner working, and the gas tank replaced. The evaporator is leaking, and they got sent the wrong one, blah blah blah. Im stuck in a lil POS corolla for now lol. Im going in tonight to see if they have anything better

 

[MSP]

Zodiac. Dealer just called me and my car wont be ready until monday, so it looks like no tracktime for me. I took my car in last thursday (so its already been 8 days) to get my a/c fixed, my seat recliner working, and the gas tank replaced. The evaporator is leaking, and they got sent the wrong one, blah blah blah. Im stuck in a lil POS corolla for now lol. Im going in tonight to see if they have anything better

Damn Fazm83, how many miles do you have on the car thus far? Sure seems like alot of things going wrong all at once.. Is this just one of those things, or are you perhaps being too abusive? LOL!!

The Corolla brings justice back into your life.. The Mustang is your baby, I know.. Bet you miss him huh?

 

[vb101]

I had a similar experience as fazm83 with my Mustang about a month ago when I took it in to get the strut TSB fix. They had my car two days and I was stuck with a Ford Taurus ZX4. I absolutely hated that thing! I couldn't wait to get back into my Mustang. The Taurus handled ok and acceleration was not bad for a four banger but a Mustang it was not. The interior felt extremely cheap and the stereo sucked. Getting back into my Mustang felt like stepping into a $40,000 car by comparison. I've been spoiled.

As for a 300 hp N/A six, I'm planning on replacing the heads at some point in the not too distant future with a set of P&P heads with larger valves and hopefully an under drive pulley, if one is out by then. That will put me close to 300 hp at the crank. Then when I get enough money to replace the transmission and rear end I will get new cams and intake, one should be out by then as well, which will put me close to if not over the 300 hp at the wheels. Finances permitting I will do all of this within the next two to three years. It will cost a lot but I think it's worth doing.

Some other suggestions are things I've seen for other cars before. An electric water pump if one could be found for our engines will free up 10-15 hp. Either a coil pack or complete electronic ignition replacement would add another 5-10 hp. I'm sure there are other things that can be done to increase the horses.

 

[Jimp]

Jimp, i thought the same thing bout mine when i got it. I just took it out completely, played with the switches, plugged it back into the car (make sure it REALLY gets pushed in there, its sensitive for me for some reason) and the flip the switch to the left.

Got an email from the seller, they gave me some tips to get it working. It's working now.

 

[fazm83]

MSP: The a/c wasnt working from the day i got it, i just serviced it myself because i was too busy to take it in. Also the seat recliner didnt work from the day i got it either. The gas tank thing only bugged me on road trips, because around town i know which pumps wont do it, but once i leave town, its a gamble.

 

[fazm83]

On a similar note, i went back to the dealer and they traded my econo box corolla for an 05 grand prix, much nicer ride, but still no power. But at least the a/c works well in it.

 

[Jenns01TA]

Well, it appears that after this small brainstorming process, we are back to MSPs S/C... It is much easier (albeight not as much fun ). Okay. Back to waiting for a two screw whipple for the 6 that costs less the $5,000.

Thread is dead - T.=Dead

Jenn

 

[NJstangpilot]

Jenn, the thread isn't dead, it just got WAYYY off track. That tends to happen occasionally, often when people don't know what else to say about the topic, but want to say *something*. Human nature. Plus, people don't know where to post the little "conversation-like" replies without starting a new thread. No biggie, but I agree that replies on how to pep-up the V6's power (naturally aspirated) is much more interesting (and on-topic).

5-speedstallion,

Welcome to the 4.0 forums amigo. Stick around, you seem to have some good knowledge and/or experience regarding the type of mods this thread is discussing. Thanks for including the data on head/valve airflow examples for comparison. I wasn't sure of the stock engines performance and limit at the high end of the rpm scale but the "redline" on my tach starts at 6000 rpm. For some reason I get the feeling that at 6000 rpm this engine starts gasping for air, I'm not sure it could even make it to 7000 rpms, let alone be making significant torque at that speed. But, I don't really know. I'm pretty sure that this mill could crank out a lot more ponies if it could breath better. I don't know about 300 rwhp ( *I* never said that) but 300 at the crank (same as GT) is doable, I believe.

How much does a typical port and polish job cost for an aluminum headed V6? I'm trying to get an idea of how much a complete N/A package would cost. I know what CAI, headers, exhaust, intake manifolds and cams typically cost, but no idea what a P+P job runs (on aluminum heads).

By the time my warranty expires (36,000 miles will probably come first) I should have a little cheddah saved up for some decent engine work (suspension comes first for me). My personal, long-range goal for this car is to get GT performance levels out of it. Having the same exact body means that I can install the GT's suspension, or even the GT500 Cobra's suspension!! As for the engine, I would never need (or want) more than 300 HP anyway. Heck, the stock V6 is quick enough for 100% of my current driving. In the end, all I want is a car as quick as a stock GT, that handles as well as a stock GT500 Cobra and has the insurance payment of a V6. The insurance payment is why I chose against the GT even though I could have gotten one for what I paid for my V6.

 

[vb101]

NJstangpilot, I also would be satisfied with 300 hp at the crank. When my car is completely paid off I may bump it up to 400 or more, finances permitting, but that would entail a lot more work and cash.

I don't know how much having the heads ported and polished would cost but I do know that P&P replacement heads run between 800-1200 dollars. For roughly the cost of a good supercharger the 4.0 V6 can get at least to 300 hp at the crank and probably more. As I've stated earlier in the thread for previous years 3.8L V6 I have seen heads, cams and intakes that together would add about 90-100 horses. Assuming that equivalent parts will be available for the 4.0L with equivalent hp gains that is all that would be needed to reach 300 hp at the crank. Throw in CAI, tune, under drive pulley, dual exhaust and headers and the engine is easily making over 300 hp.

There are other things that may or may not ever be produced for the engine which will add even more hp. An example is an electric water pump. I have seen those for previous year GT's though I don't know if one was ever developed for the 3.8L V6. Then there are things like larger injectors and ported throttle body.

I'm not a big fan of S/C or turbos. Yes, you can get huge power increases with them given enough boost but when the S/C or turbo goes out you're back to whatever horses you started out with. A naturally aspirated engine will either run with all it's horses or it won't run at all there really isn't much in the middle.

Just my own opinion. I do want to see other peoples opinions and information because I am going to beef up my car to 300 hp with the next couple of years, when my warranty expires.

 

[5-SpeedStallion]

5-speedstallion,

Welcome to the 4.0 forums amigo. Stick around, you seem to have some good knowledge and/or experience regarding the type of mods this thread is discussing. Thanks for including the data on head/valve airflow examples for comparison. I wasn't sure of the stock engines performance and limit at the high end of the rpm scale but the "redline" on my tach starts at 6000 rpm. For some reason I get the feeling that at 6000 rpm this engine starts gasping for air, I'm not sure it could even make it to 7000 rpms, let alone be making significant torque at that speed. But, I don't really know. I'm pretty sure that this mill could crank out a lot more ponies if it could breath better. I don't know about 300 rwhp ( *I* never said that) but 300 at the crank (same as GT) is doable, I believe.

How much does a typical port and polish job cost for an aluminum headed V6? I'm trying to get an idea of how much a complete N/A package would cost. I know what CAI, headers, exhaust, intake manifolds and cams typically cost, but no idea what a P+P job runs (on aluminum heads).

Thanks for the Welcome, NJstangpilot...

Here's the cataloge for Super Six Motorsports. I actually got my heads somewhere else, and there may be other places that have 4.0 P&P heads and such since the 4.0 has been out in other applications for a while. So here's the link...

SSX

Another way to go would be to determine if the heads on other 4.0's are the same, pick some used ones up cheap at a junkyard or online, and have a reputable independent shop do the P&P and all the valve-work. That way, your car is never down and it MAY end up being cheaper than ordering from someone like SSX, I'm not sure. I got mine second hand from an independent shop and ended up getting heads just as good as the $1250 Stage 2+ SSX Heads, for only $700. Of course, they are slightly used (guy had them on for a couple thousand miles or less, thought they were messed up so he bought new ones, then when he took them off realized it was something else), but I'm sure they were a lot cheaper than $1250 to begin with. That's just something people are going to have to research. Also, I can certainly see the 4.0 getting to 300hp @ the crank... but it won't be as easy as it sounds. I wouldn't EXPECT that a Head/Cam swap would necessarily do it. I realize that you guys have some displacement on us 3.8 guys and a significant rwhp advantage stock.... I just don't want everyone to get their hopes up and then not make their goal of ~265whp or whatever. I do, however, think it can be done. It may take a nice P&P job and a lot of supporting mods... but it'll be worth it when you're done. Definately a sleeper. Kinda what I'm going for now. I've actually got a Turbo and FMIC in my room, but decided to go N/A first, just because no one will be able to tell that I have anything more than CAI and exhaust. Should be fun. Good luck guys.

 

[onefastv6]

I would think we would be around 14 on the manual and like 17 on the auto.

so thats 349 at the flywheel for the manual and bout 361/362 for an auto.

That seems pretty extreme lol.

Lets make a list of what we know we can do to these.
P&P heads (30hp)
cams (15hp)
headers (10hp)
intake (8hp)
exhaust (9hp)
hi flo/no cats. (5-10hp)
tune (10hp)
boring cylinder (no clue, all depends on how much i guess, maybe 30?)
plugs, wires, possible MSD coil in future. (5-10hp)
stroker kit? (upwards of 30hp im sure)
larger injectors? (10hp)
throttle body (5-10hp)
cant do anything to the intake manifold i am assuming because it is plastic.

Do you think all of that is worth 130rwhp or more? (i get a max of 182)

I'm sure if you wanted to replace all of the internals too you could probably run some radical compression ratio.

and a set of pullies