351 balancer on a 302!

[HistoricMustang]

Who makes a tape to convert the 351 timing marks to a 302? Or, better yet, does any one here have the secret formula for converting the 351 unit to a 302. You know, go 17.57 millimeters from TDC on the 351 to TDC on the 302.

This one will bring out the hard core early model fanatics!

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

 

[dennis112]

Who makes a tape to convert the 351 timing marks to a 302? Or, better yet, does any one here have the secret formula for converting the 351 unit to a 302. You know, go 17.57 millimeters from TDC on the 351 to TDC on the 302.

This one will bring out the hard core early model fanatics!

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

I don't know if I fully understand your question or what you ultimately are trying to do. Are you doing a LH to RH timing conversion? Perhaps a little more info for direction is needed.

I'll offer this for you to think about:

The best way is to determine TDC buy using a piston stop and a degree wheel on the engine combination you are planning to use. Then you mark you balancer where it matchs your pointer at TDC. You should then be able to determine the degrees by measuring the marked area of that balancer. Use an engraver to remark the balancer, perhaps in increments of 5 degrees.

I had to do this with my original 351 because the marks did not line up with the late balancer and the early 289 timing cover. Later I bought a correctly marked balancer.

 

[HistoricMustang]

I don't know if I fully understand your question or what you ultimately are trying to do. Are you doing a LH to RH timing conversion? Perhaps a little more info for direction is needed.

I'll offer this for you to think about:

The best way is to determine TDC buy using a piston stop and a degree wheel on the engine combination you are planning to use. Then you mark you balancer where it matchs your pointer at TDC. You should then be able to determine the degrees by measuring the marked area of that balancer. Use an engraver to remark the balancer, perhaps in increments of 5 degrees.

I had to do this with my original 351 because the marks did not line up with the late balancer and the early 289 timing cover. Later I bought a correctly marked balancer.

Thanks Dennis.

Am doing an engine swap (another thread) and it turns out the balancer that was on the original engine was from a 351 which has different "timing marks" than a 302. Am looking for a simple way to mark the new balancer and thought that I remember seeing that a company offered a tape that could be "glued" to the 351 balancer to provide the 302 timing marks (of course any tape that I have used on a balancer last about one revolution before flying into God knows where).

If necessary I will "scribe" the 351 balancer with the 302 timing points.

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

 

[67coupe351w]

The tape you are refering to is made by Mr. Gasket and is called "Timing Tape". Order the correct tape for the diameter of balancer you have. It has large lettering and makes timing VERY easy (not only due to large visible markings but also allowing you to make a custom pointer location as you can stick the tape on anywhere you want)

Just find top dead center, line the tape up with your pointer and you are done.

It seems to stick just as well as the paint on the balancer.

 

[rbohm]

you can also buy a timing pointer for the engine that the balancer came off of and bolt it inplace on the current engine.

 

[bnickel]

Thanks Dennis.

Am doing an engine swap (another thread) and it turns out the balancer that was on the original engine was from a 351 which has different "timing marks" than a 302. Am looking for a simple way to mark the new balancer and thought that I remember seeing that a company offered a tape that could be "glued" to the 351 balancer to provide the 302 timing marks (of course any tape that I have used on a balancer last about one revolution before flying into God knows where).

If necessary I will "scribe" the 351 balancer with the 302 timing points.

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

Henry, no difference between the timing marks on a 302 vs 351. what you have there is a balancer for either left or right side pointer and the pointer for the other combo. all you really need is the correct pointer.

 

[HistoricMustang]

Henry, no difference between the timing marks on a 302 vs 351. what you have there is a balancer for either left or right side pointer and the pointer for the other combo. all you really need is the correct pointer.

Thanks, and lets dig deeper as new topics are sometimes hard to find.

This is telling us that perhaps the key-way is located in a different place on the 351 crank as opposed to the 289/302 crank?

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

 

[rbohm]

Henry, no difference between the timing marks on a 302 vs 351. what you have there is a balancer for either left or right side pointer and the pointer for the other combo. all you really need is the correct pointer.

actually there are three different timing mark locations on small block fords.

[/QUOTE]Thanks, and lets dig deeper as new topics are sometimes hard to find.

This is telling us that perhaps the key-way is located in a different place on the 351 crank as opposed to the 289/302 crank?[/QUOTE]

no the keyway is in the same location on all ford engines. however the opposing keyway in the dampner is in different locations. you can tell which you have if you set the #1 cyl at tdc, and then put the dampner roughly in place and and seeing where the timing marks line up. then just get the right pointer.

 

[jerry S]

Thanks, and lets dig deeper as new topics are sometimes hard to find.

This is telling us that perhaps the key-way is located in a different place on the 351 crank as opposed to the 289/302 crank?

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

351s have key-ways at either 11:00 (the B key) or at 10:00 (or the C key). You can also get timing covers that include the possibility to mount your timing pointer not only at those points but also at 2:00 (but I don't know what key-way that is. A? D?). I bought this fancy new SFI approved harmonic balancer from Summit for $260 and was assured that the $70 fancy Ford Racing billet timing pointer (B Key) would fit. It did not. So I bought the other one for $70 (C key) but it does not zero out to TDC either so I got 2 of those lying around collecting dust.

 

[dennis112]

actually there are three different timing mark locations on small block fords.

Thanks, and lets dig deeper as new topics are sometimes hard to find.

This is telling us that perhaps the key-way is located in a different place on the 351 crank as opposed to the 289/302 crank?[/QUOTE]

no the keyway is in the same location on all ford engines. however the opposing keyway in the dampner is in different locations. you can tell which you have if you set the #1 cyl at tdc, and then put the dampner roughly in place and and seeing where the timing marks line up. then just get the right pointer.[/QUOTE]


Yes, you can get pointers that will work on opposite sides, but one must also be concerned with the water pump hose inlet. If the balancer is one that is mis-matched with your water pump it will not be visible if the pointer is behind the inlet.

Case in point, when I first installed my 70' 351 in my 65', I used the original 70' balancer with 4 bolt pulleys, the 70' model timing cover which had the pointer on the passenger side, and needed a pre-70' small block water pump (289) so that the hoses would reach the passenger side radiator outlet. Had to time the darn thing by ear (or I could have found TDC as I mentioned above and marked the balance on the LH side.)

Because I wanted to maintain a original appearance, when I later rebuilt it I used 69' and earlier parts (289/302/351w) which matched my passenger side radiator. Specifically I swapped on a 289 timing chain cover, added a 289/302/351w 3 bolt balancer, a 289 3 bolt bottom pulley, and again used the 289 water pump. It all matched perfectly and I can properly see my pointer and timing marks.

 

[dennis112]

actually there are three different timing mark locations on small block fords.

the keyway is in the same location on all ford engines. however the opposing keyway in the dampner is in different locations. you can tell which you have if you set the #1 cyl at tdc, and then put the dampner roughly in place and and seeing where the timing marks line up. then just get the right pointer.

Yes, you can get pointers that will work on opposite sides, but one must also be concerned with the water pump hose inlet. If the balancer is one that is mis-matched with your water pump it will not be visible if the pointer is behind the inlet.

Case in point, when I first installed my 70' 351 in my 65', I used the original 70' balancer with 4 bolt pulleys, the 70' model timing cover which had the pointer on the passenger side, and needed a pre-70' small block water pump (289) so that the hoses would reach the passenger side radiator outlet. Had to time the darn thing by ear (or I could have found TDC as I mentioned above and marked the balance on the LH side.)

Because I wanted to maintain a original appearance, when I later rebuilt it I used 69' and earlier parts (289/302/351w) which matched my passenger side radiator. Specifically I swapped on a 289 timing chain cover, added a 289/302/351w 3 bolt balancer, a 289 3 bolt bottom pulley, and again used the 289 water pump. It all matched perfectly and I can properly see my pointer and timing marks.