89 Fox Running so rich will Smoke Like BBQ PLEASE HELP

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by Scott Braatz, Feb 7, 2012.


  1. Scott Braatz

    Scott Braatz New Member

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    Ok, so my car now, I have gone back to it as a daily driver due to money, the car is running so rich my air/fuel ratio gauge will not come out of the green. Its is a stock block, with stock crank, forged pistons, x-303 ford racing cam, trick flow upper and lower, GT40P heads (yes they suck), 70mm throttle body, 75 maf, MSD disturbor, MSD 6al box, 30 lb injectors, 155 lph fuel pump, automatic with 4:10 gears, I had a custom chip burned back in 2005 (265hp to the wheels), it has run good ever since, now when it first starts up the idle is a little high (1000 rpm) and after approx 2 mins, the idle jumps around and it will die, all while running super rich. The motor has around 20,000 miles on it, it went in the car in 2001, I just changed the throttle position sensor and egr evp sensor and no change, I have a code reader and it passes the engine off test, and the only codes it produces when running it 13R (RPM idle out of range to low) and 42R & 92R (HEGO HO2S sensor voltage high/system rich). Please point me in the right direction, this is very fustrating!!!!

    Thank you
    Scott
    #1
  2. Noobz347

    Noobz347 Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor Admin Dude

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    Try cleaning the IAC
    Try cleaning the MAF sensor (carefully). You may even be able to see dirt on the sensor wire.
    Check for vac leaks
    Check timing and ensure that it's not moved
    Check fuel pressure
    Do a cylinder balance test (to see if there's a malfunctioning injector)
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    2vNotch likes this.
  3. Scott Braatz

    Scott Braatz New Member

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  4. Scott Braatz

    Scott Braatz New Member

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    I have cleaned the IAC, I can not find a vacume leak either, the fuel pressure shows it right at 38 pounds with chip in, 40 with it out, I have checked the timing which is still correct and even did a test and the computer is able to ajust the timing as well. I will clean the MAF, i know I can but a cleaner for it, but how do I do a cylinder balance test?
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  5. Noobz347

    Noobz347 Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor Admin Dude

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  6. Scott Braatz

    Scott Braatz New Member

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    Ok so I cleaned the MAF with no changes happening. I ran the cylinder balance test with my code reader and it came back with cylinder's 6, 3 & 2 not functioning correctly. Now could that mean the injectors are bad and that is the reason my car is running so rich with a bad idle? Is my computer having problems controling those certain cylinder's? Or is my motor taking a crap and am I in big trouble? Thank you for your contiuned help.

    Scott
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  7. Noobz347

    Noobz347 Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor Admin Dude

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    A couple of things come to mind.

    You could have bad injectors. The easiest way to tell would be to swap injectors 6, 3, and 2 into different locations and run the balance test again. Keep track of where you put them.

    If the problems don't follow the suspected bad injectors to their new locations then it's time to do a compression and leak down test on those cylinders.

    That should tell you the story.
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  8. Scott Braatz

    Scott Braatz New Member

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    Thank you very much, that will be tomorrows task at hand and I will let you know, thank you again for the guidance.

    Scott
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  9. Scott Braatz

    Scott Braatz New Member

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    Ok so I moved the injectors into cylinders 4, 7 & 8, hooked up my code reader, did the engine off test again and now it is telling me the EVP sensor is voltage is low, this is the one I already changed, however I press on and started the car and start the test with the engine on, the code reader now will on read the car as having a 6 cylinder engine (I tried three different times to see if it would read it correctly), and when I tried the cylinder balance test again (I dont know why), it came back with cylinders 6 & 3 being bad, however I dont know if it really tested all eight or just six of the eight. Is it crazy to think that my computer is taking a crap?
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  10. Noobz347

    Noobz347 Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor Admin Dude

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    Too soon to tell. Disconnect your battery for 15 or so minutes and depress the brake pedal a couple times. Reconnect the battery and try again.
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  11. Scott Braatz

    Scott Braatz New Member

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    Ok so the battery trick worked and I re-plugged in my egr connection and it passed the engine off test. When ran with the engine on, it came back still with cylinders 6 & 3, 2 is not showing up anymore. I also noticed that while warming up the car to do the test, it seems like it was missing until my air/fuel ratio got to the rich side, and then kinda of went away. Should I do the commpression test on the two cylinders? And is it bad to drive in this condition as I am running low on fuel due to this, just to get gas and head back home?
    #11
  12. Noobz347

    Noobz347 Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor Admin Dude

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    jrichker : calling in reinforcements to help with troubleshooting.

    When you say that
    are you saying that the ECU just doesn't see those cylinders or that it's failing those cylinders? If you're getting failed cylinders and they're the same ones that failed before even with the injectors moved to new locations, then yes... It's time to do a compression check on ALL cylinders and see what's going on in that area.
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  13. Scott Braatz

    Scott Braatz New Member

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    Well it is still failing cylinders 6 & 3, however now with injectors moved it is not failing cylinder 2 anymore. Which is weird to me that one all of a sudden it is not a problem.
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  14. Noobz347

    Noobz347 Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor Admin Dude

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    Nto so weird... Sometimes removing and reinstalling a component will bring it back to life.
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  15. jrichker

    jrichker StangNet's favorite TOOL SN Certified Technician Founding Member

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    Until you fix the code 13 idle speed problem, the cylinder balance test will continue to give randomized results. You'll get different cylinders almost every time you run the test. To get the cylinder balance test to run properly the IAC/IAB must be able to get the engine RPM up to 14-1600 RPM. Screwing the idle speed up to that range won't work reliably either.

    Code 42 & 92 (engine running) System rich - Fuel control or (memory) System was rich for 15 seconds or more (no HO2S switching) - Fuel control. Look for leaking injectors, fuel pressure too high, cylinder(s) not firing due to bad ignition. Pull the vacuum line off the fuel pressure regulator and inspect it for evidence of fuel in the vacuum line. If you find fuel, the fuel pressure regulator diaphragm has failed: this will cause and overly rich condition.
    Code 42 is the RH side sensor,
    Code 92 is the LH side sensor.

    Testing the O2 sensors
    Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear. The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a dark green/pink wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a dark blue/pink wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.

    There is a fuse link for the O2 sensor heater power. According to Ranchero50, it is in the wiring near the passenger side hood hinge. Measuring the voltages will give a clue if it has shorted to the O2 sensor signal lead. The O2 sensor voltage should switch between .2-.9 volt at idle.

    IAC & idle speeed problems:
    IAC doesn't work: look for +12 volts at the IAC red wire. Then check for continuity between the white/lt blue wire and pin 21 on the computer. The IAC connector contacts will sometimes corrode and make the IAC not work. The red wire on the IAC is always hot with the engine in run mode. The computer provides a ground for the current for the IAC. It switches the ground on and off, making a square wave with a varying duty cycle. A normal square wave would be on for 50% of the time and off for 50% of the time. When the idle speed is low, the duty cycle increases more than 50% to open the IAC more. When the engine speed is high, it decreases the duty cycle to less than 50% to close the IAC. An old-fashioned dwell meter can be used to check the change: I haven’t tried it personally, but it should work. In theory, it should read ½ scale of whatever range you set it on with a 50% duty cycle. An Oscilloscope is even better if you can find someone who has one and will help.

    [​IMG]

    Recommended procedure for cleaning the IAC/IAB:
    Conventional cleaning methods like throttle body cleaner aren’t very effective. The best method is a soak type cleaner used for carburetors. If you are into fixing motorcycles, jet skis, snowmobiles or anything else with a small carburetor, you probably have used the one gallon soak cleaners like Gunk or Berryman. One of the two should be available at your local auto parts store for $22-$29. Take the solenoid off the body and set it aside: the carb cleaner will damages some types of plastic parts. Soak the metal body in the carb cleaner overnight. There is a basket to set the parts in while they are soaking. When you finish soaking overnight, twist the stem of the IAB/IAC that sticks out while the blocker valve is seated. This removes any leftover deposits from the blocker valve seat. Rinse the part off with water and blow it dry with compressed air. The IAC/IAB should seal up nicely now. Once it has dried, try blowing through the bottom hole and it should block the air flow. Reassemble and reinstall to check it out.

    Gunk Dip type carb & parts soaker:
    [​IMG]

    Setting the base idle speed:
    First of all, the idle needs to be adjusted to where the speed is at or below 600 RPM with the IAC disconnected. Then the electrical signal through the IAC can vary the airflow through it under computer control. Remember that the IAC can only add air to increase the base idle speed set by the mechanical adjustment. The 600 RPM base idle speed is what you have after the mechanical adjustment. The IAC increases that speed by supplying more air under computer control to raise the RPM’s to 650-725 RPM’s

    Remember that changing the mechanical idle speed adjustment changes the TPS setting too.

    This isn't the method Ford uses, but it does work. Do not attempt to set the idle speed until you have fixed all the codes and are sure that there are no vacuum leaks.

    Disconnect the battery negative terminal and turn the headlights on. Leave the battery negative terminal disconnected for 5 minutes or so. Then turn the headlights off and reconnect the battery. This erases the computer settings that may affect idle performance.

    Warm the engine up to operating temperature, place the transmission in neutral, and set the parking brake. Turn off lights, A/C, all unnecessary electrical loads. Disconnect the IAC electrical connector. Remove the SPOUT plug. This will lock the ignition timing so that the computer won't change the spark advance, which changes the idle speed. Note the engine RPM: use the mechanical adjustment screw under the throttle body to raise or lower the RPM until you get the 600 RPM mark +/- 25 RPM. Changing the mechanical adjustment changes the TPS, so you will need to set it.

    When you are satisfied with the results, turn off the engine, and re-install the SPOUT and reconnect the IAC. The engine should idle with the range of 650-750 RPM without the A/C on or extra electrical loads.
    #15
  16. Scott Braatz

    Scott Braatz New Member

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    Ok well after all this time I have finally have it running good again, what it came down to was I found a vacum leak at the break buster, my fuel pressure regulator was bad and I repleaced that and I also just bit the bullet and replaced the IAC and now it is back to running like a champ. Thank you for all your help.

    Scott
    #16
  17. 7991LXnSHO

    7991LXnSHO Active Member

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    What is the break buster where you had a vac leak? Brake booster or did I miss something besides "leaks suck"?
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  18. Scott Braatz

    Scott Braatz New Member

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    Yes it was a very big leak at the brake booster, main hose running to the top of the booster, did not know it was leaking and after it was fixed, my throttle responce was much better.
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  19. 7991LXnSHO

    7991LXnSHO Active Member

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    I bet the breaks work better too!
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