ALL UPR triple hook quadrant owners, come inside, SERIOUS discussion!!

[v8only]

What's up all?!!

I wanted to start off by saying that I have a tremendous amount of experience in the area of clutch quadrants, and adjustments, etc. For some time I have been using and advocating the use of the upr triple hook quadrant.

My bro has one on both of his fox mustangs. However, on my vert, I'm running a very old setup which I used very early on. I have the ford racing single hook quadrant with a steeda firewall adjuster.

My stang has been down for some time, so I didn't notice the differnce between clutch pedal feeling until I finally drove my vert again.

With the clutch in my vert adjusted properly, it sits just BARELY in height above the brake pedal. The clutch grabs a couple of inches or so off the floor, or just less than halfway which is perfect.

Both of my brothers cars have brand new clutches and brand new trannies. One has a tremec 3550 with a new kc clutch, and the other mustang has a new t5 with a brand new centerforce df clutch.

with him using that triple hook quadrant, cable on second hook his clutch pedal when adjusted properly sits a good 2 inches or so above the brake pedal. This makes the clutch a bitch to operate, as it seems to have WAY too much up and down movement. Not only that, with these quadrants, his clutch does not grab until three quarters end of travel, so in other words, he's got to let way, way out on the clutch till the car starts going.

I know for a fact the clutches are good, and it does the exact same thing on both cars.

I've come to the conclusion that the upr quadrants place an unnatural curve in the cable dynamics and placement, and for that reason cause a higher clutch pedal, and a very high engagement point. I told him to order a single hook quadrant to see if I can test out my theory, since my stang has a single hook and none of these issues. he ordered the MM single hook unit, but they've been backordered forever.

My question, with all of you running this upr piece, and cable placement on the second hook, who has a very high sitting clutch pedal and very high engagement point???

please no statements "works fine for me"

I'm trying to get in depth opinions so I can fine tune my knoweledge here, adjust my tech article accordingly, and get my brothers clutch feel up to par so it doesn't feel like ****

 

[Asha'man]

I have the UPR triple-pickup setup and a stock cable, and without actually going out and driving it to notice specifically, it grabs about halfway through the pedal travel. I definitely don't have to let most of the way up before it engages - I hate cars that do that. I think mine is okay.

Ash

 

[v8only]

I think our engagement point is halfway, or a little more, however, it's the very high point that the clutch pedal sits at that causes the pedal to have to be let out so far.

Next time you get in your car, take note to how high the clutch pedal sits above the brake pedal. In my single hook quadrant setup on my vert, literally, it's just slightly higher.

 

[blk92stangg]

Well, when I changed my quadrant to a quick release, and then to a 3 hook, the position of the clutch was the same, although the engagement was different. I would agree that the shape of the quadrant will affect where the clutch engages. I don't think the quadrant affects the height of the clutch pedal, but rather is affected by the play in the cable. Assuming you have little to no play, the clutch cable would be slightly higher than the brake. I think Stangbear mentioned a device that allowed you to adjust the clutch cable height independant of cable preload...maybe you are lucky enough to have one on yours? If you think about it, the cable comes over the quadrant and attached in back. Maybe your quadrant has some kind of tongue or tang that somehow acts like a stop. The clutch is above my brake pedal, but not 2 inches! That is a pretty big difference.

 

[88mustangGT]

i orderd my mm clutch quadrant and cable last week and it just got shipped out. mine grabs right now right off the floor and is a little higher but not 2 inches. will i feel a big diffrance with the new cable and adjuster?

 

[v8only]

i orderd my mm clutch quadrant and cable last week and it just got shipped out. mine grabs right now right off the floor and is a little higher but not 2 inches. will i feel a big diffrance with the new cable and adjuster?

you'll have much more adjustability and it should be much smoother. Just be sure you adjust it right, and it should feel worlds better.

black92stang, you must be talking about the kit they sell on the mm site which will lower the height of your clutch pedal down to the height of your brake pedal?? I don't have one of those installed on my vert.

However,......Picture this. In fact, i'm going to attach a picture of a pedal assembly and quadrant. (yes I just happen to have a spare clutch pedal assmbly )

the quadrant assmbly is directly attached to a long shaft which is directly attached to the clutch pedal. THe oem quadrant has that plastic hook which is designed to operate at a certain angle. Placing an aftermarket quadrant on it with multiple hooks will therefore pivot the clutch pedal up more which each subsequent hook, therefore, the more hooks it has, the higher up you place the cable, the more the clutch pedal pivots up. I know this to be the fact, because I put the cable on the third hook once, and the clutch pedal was probably 4 inches above the gas pedal!!!

anyhow, i've finally talked myself into the conclusion, unless anyone agrees that a single hook quadrant should retain the oem cable grab location such as the mm unit, which should keep the clutch pedal at a minimum height, therefore causing the clutch to grab closer to the floor when adjusted properly.

I'll give a final update whenever his damn quadrant ships out and we rip the upr piece off and put the mm piece on.

If anyone else has comments/suggestions, please chime in!!! thanks all who have replied.

If what I'm doing fixes what I want fixed, imo it's going to render the upr triple hook quadrant as junk. Sure it works, but believe me, it really tweaks with the clutch disengagement/engagement position and makes it super uncomfortable to drive. One would NEVER know this unless you drive a car with a different setup, such as what happened with me. Will keep everyone updated.

 

[04sleeper]

Subscribing. I have a single on my car with a new stock cable and a firewall adjuster. Also converted over to 5 speed with pedal assembly out of a 4 cylinder. It makes sense as to what you are saying. I would like to know what you come up with.

 

[tmoss]

My UPR single "fast rate" quadrant and UPR cowl adjustor with the stock cable leave the pedals close together with engagement a few inches off the floor - like yours.

 

[tjm73]

I have the tripple unit in my 90 Vert. "works fine for me."....j/k

Seriously though, I have it and my clutch pedal is even with my brake pedal. I have it set up so it's engaged/disengaged at 1/2 pedal throw. Works great. It's supposed to reduce pedal pressure and my FRPP King Cobra clutch is also supposed to reduce pedal effort while increasing holding ability. I've had zero issues in 2.5 years and about 20,000 miles.

But it doesn't sit high like you're asking about.

 

[89MustangGX]

I prefer to have my pedal up higher (that's how I've adjusted them) -- but they need to pick up higher as well. It doesn't sound like the triple hook does that very well (I've never used anything other than a single hook).

I am interested in the quick-ramp quadrants though -- info on those???

 

[stangbear427]

I have the UPR triple hook, had it long before the pedal relocation kit from MM, never had a problem with it and have run it on the third hook exclusively. It never sat more than 1" above the brake pedal, and always engaged/disengaged right where I tuned it too. Now, relocated, it sits dead even with the brake- right where I want it. Any higher, and I can't get my knee under the steering wheel. It has about a half inch of play before it starts disengaging with factory preload on the fork, also just what I want. This is at least the 30th linkage variation I've used in my car, (not to mention my wife's car, friends, and myriad's of customers) and it's the only one I'm happy with. I did use the MM quadrant, FWA, and cable- and while I worship the ground they walk (anybody seen under my car?) I have to admit I wasn't impressed with it, couldn't use it, and sent it all back. BTW, When my MM and UPR quadrants were both out of the car, I overlaid them. The ramp is the same. MM sticks you with the second pickup whether it will work in your application or not, and in mine, it didn't. Ironically, it was their pedal relocation kit that made it so I couldn't use it and I'm not about to drive without it, especially when my UPR piece continues to function just stellar. As a side note, in the face of common conventional wisdom, I also run an FRPP adjustable cable. It has served for many, many thousands of miles and survived even more thousands of speed shifts, power launches, and clutch dumps and I have tightened it only once since installing it, about half a turn on the firewall. The same cable is in my wife's car, over two years and 30,000 miles, she drives it as hard as I would and I've never touched it. That's a product unfairly labeled as crap, and I'd encourage you not to add the same stigma to the UPR quadrant, whose design was pirated from some of the most respected in the business. You have influence in that, as you have written a well done and highly regarded article on the matter. It is by far the best and most complete I've seen, but it isn't perfect, and your knowledge on this subject isn't either- or you wouldn't have posted this thread or considered revising your article. You have a very black and white approach to diagnosing clutch theory, and there are just too many variables for that. Telling someone how their car should shift with one quadrant or pickup over another is like trying to tell someone how their car will sound with different mufflers. You can try, but they may not find that what you said is so for them. Now that you have encountered this new situation, imagine the possibilities of how many more you haven't encountered yet? Right wrong or otherwise though, many people in here think yours is the final voice on the matter and site your article with Biblical certainty. So, you have a certain amount of sway over public opinion in here with it, and thus the responsibility to those trusting your advice (as well as to those whose reputations as good parts makers you can tarnish) to not close the book on anything just because you couldn't make it work. You may put the MM piece in your brothers car and it may feel better, but I doubt it- except in that they provide for positive location of the quadrant just like the stock piece, a practice I haven't observed you supporting. Even if it does fix it, that doesn't mean you have any right condemning the UPR one, as thousands of people are perfectly happy with it. It didn't become one of the most popular ones on the market by forcing people to drive with their left knee buried in their chin, etc. There are hundreds of situations left undiscussed, and dealing with them can only be done effectively on a case-sensitive, car by car basis. There are just too many variables in this subject to blackball any combination until you have worked on the car firsthand- and even then, remember that there is probably someone else out there who has made it work on theirs with no trouble. Me, for example... happily trouble free on UPR pickup 3.

 

[v8only]

I sincerly and honestly thank you for your advice. The entire reason for this post is to continue learning, and to adapt to new things that I learn. To date, I've adjusted my clutch adjustment article 3 times already, as I always learn something new. I'm about to do another major revision on it, as I now have a few different opionions on how to adjust your clutch optimally for different conditions, etc, and I want to go more into discussion about the quadrants.

I am def very, very far from all knowing. I do have a good amount of experience in this subject, but I find constantly that there is always someone who has done more, been further. ha, hell ask me about building an engine,...I haven't done that yet.

As said, I've got more to add to that article. I've used a bunch of different combos, but sounds like you've tried even more, I would be thrilled to discuss this with via pm's or email, and cite you in my article if you would like, as I personally found out starting off that this was a big weakeness with mustang tech and I could never find an ample amount of information on this subject.

I started this thread to find more about the upr quadrant, but haven't condemmed it quite yet.

After analyzing the quadrant more, what I had been doing is trying to dial out all that slack such as you have done and leave .5 to one inch tops slack on it. However, by doing that, the more I tightened up the cable , the more it made the clutch engage higher, until it was grabbing much too high for comfort. When I got in my convertible, I have a different setup, my clutch pedal physically sat lower, I have the same non adjustable oem cable, but a single hook quadrant, not a triple. I had all the slack out to my preference, and the clutch still grabbed within a couple inches of travel or so off the floor. It fealt great. the very reason the clutch would grab higher is because I'm nearly certain the second hook is at a different location than the hook from the oem location. this will physically rotate the clutch pedal assembly an inch or two higher, which is enough to make a huge difference. IMO, if the quadrant does this, I dont' think I should have to buy a kit to counteract that, when I can just buy a quadrant that has the hook in a more natural position, rotating the clutch pedal back down, so that when adjusted properly, it doesn't engage as high.

At the drag strip last weekend, I loosened up his clutch adjustment quite a bit. It now grabs much better, it grabs within a couple inches of the floor, which makes launch much easier. I am still fully disengaging, I just changed the points. Results: the clutch pedal doesn't seem to change height with adjustment. It sits 1.5-2" above the brake pedal, which is a little too high. I still think that is because of the upr multiple hooks, in fact, I'm positive of that. That can be corrected with the height adjustment kit offered by mm, but I was simply trying to duplicate the setup in my convertible. I'm convinced I can get the brake pedal lower in height than where the upr quadrant puts it without that adjustment kit. The only thing I want to know is why don't I have all that excessive slack in my setup, yet my bro has excessive slack with both of his setups?? I've deduced the only thing common to them is the upr setup.

You have yours dialed in to work. I still respectively disagree with the adjustable clutch cables. While it is common to run across those like you with no problems, the vast majority of people, including myself have had horrible experience with those adjustable cables.

If I was to install the pedal height adjuster from mm, AND an adjustable cable, I could not only lower the brake pedal height, but also dial out all the slack, yet get it to still grab closer to the floor. HOWEVER, this was not my goal, as I still feel that the upr quadrant may do a few things to the setup that causes my complaints. I'll be honest, it sucks to be upside down under that dash messing with this. In fact, I've never found someone who enjoyed it. For this reason, most people want to install a quadrant and be done with it. I love the idea behind the upr setup, but I'm not convinced it's functionally designed right. If I install something, i shouldnt have to add another kit to counteract what the first has done.

Anyhow, it's just all a quest to find the truth

unfortunetly, I attempted to install the mm unit at the races, but just didn't have enough time. Do you have pictures of the two quadrants overlayed??? this is exactly what I wanted to do.

*as a side note, i still don't condemn upr, not at all. I'm personally trying to find the best setup for a heavily street driven car with your average setup.

 

[stangbear427]

Damn. I musta been having a real bad day when I made that last post, I'm reading it now and I didn't show a very good attitude. (I had a horrible attitude and a crappy day too cause it, but at the time I didn't realise it was going into my post) My apologies for sounding like an jerk (which I am, but I do attempt to not sound like it). Unfortunately, I didn't take any pics of the overlay, it didn't even occur to me at the time. I was just pissed that after spending an hour under the dash on the cellphone with the MM tech who designed the kit, that we couldn't make it work. All I wanted to do was get the car working again and go home. I will say that the ramp is almost dead on the same though, I do remember that. They were blaming my brand new SPEC clutch, saying that they had no experience with them which I find hard to believe given the popularity of Star Performance in the stangworld, but I know they do use McCloud stuff almost exclusively and that's the assembly they used to prototype the linkage kit. Incidentally, the pedal relocation kit is adjustable, and doesn't tighten down very well so I found I was stuck with the lowest setting. It was the one I wanted, it just didn't give me enough throw to disengage completely without bottoming out. I don't know how I'd ever have made it work with my old King Cobra, that thing grabbed right off the floor as it was. Regardless- as you said there isn't a great wealth of info on this subject- and I think that the reason is as I said. There are just too many variables involved to have many things to say that are set in stone. It is a great way for people who really know a lot about it to find themselves looking stupid when what they say doesn't happen... so you won't find many of us putting our signature on any theories.