my 02 gt has 2" performance lowering springs, struts and caster camber plates... anyone got any ideas to stiffen up the rear a bit, it feels like its rolling a lot more than the front is. im on a budget though... what about control arms, i heard there a little overkill? what do they help with
Any handling suggestions???
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Rickey_Bobby
New Member
Ditch the front springs for coil overs.
They let you run a softer spring while still having reduced dive during braking and lean while cornering due to the fact that they are located farther outboard than the stock ones.
The UPR front kit is under $200. Well, It was when I got it a few months ago.
Also, get wider rims, They make a world of differance.
They let you run a softer spring while still having reduced dive during braking and lean while cornering due to the fact that they are located farther outboard than the stock ones.
The UPR front kit is under $200. Well, It was when I got it a few months ago.
Also, get wider rims, They make a world of differance.
What application are you trying to set your car up for? If your setting it up for road racing (and no, i don't mean street racing) then that size is a good size, but the stock tires are crap. If your looking at drag racing w/supporting mod's you'll have to get more meat on the ground.
Size matters for both applications, tread pattern matters even more....would you try climbing a mountain in a pair of dress shoes?
Since you are on a budget, i'd first focus on tires then go from there...just be careful not to get too aggressive of a tread for your application.
Size matters for both applications, tread pattern matters even more....would you try climbing a mountain in a pair of dress shoes?
Since you are on a budget, i'd first focus on tires then go from there...just be careful not to get too aggressive of a tread for your application.
Rickey_Bobby
New Member
Stiff = less traction. ESPECIALLY ON THE REAR!
Little suspension schooling:
Chassis lean is your "perception" of your cars handeling. Don't get me wrong, excessive leaning hampers good handeling, but it does not "cause" poor handeling.
A stock mustang is one of the poorist handeling sports cars out there. However, with a little tweeking, they can be made to stick upwards of 1G very cheaply.
Here are some things to keep in mind:
1. Don't lower your car too much!!! (mustangs limit for good handeling is about 1.5-1.75") Why? Because aftermarket springs are stiffer because they have less travel available to soak up a bump. Why this is bad... small bumps in the road make the wheel bounce, reducing tire contact with the road, thus, less traction.
2. Shocks. Lower your car, you HAVE TO HAVE good shocks. I would suggest the KYB AGX's because they are cheap, rugged, and adjustable. They will allow you to tune out some of your rear chassis leanand understeer as well. (note, rear pinion snubber needs to be trimmed 1" on a lowered car)
3.Wheels. Wider is better. 17x9 sounds fine unless your running over 400RWHP. A place called OE wheels on ebay sells nice rims. They are here in my town and have a nice product. Its like $400 for a full set of rims. check them out.
4. Tires. A good tire on a narrow rim, gives the same handeling as a ****ty tire on a wide rim. So do the rims first and save $$ in the long run. Kuhmo ecsta MX's are about the best I have found for the front to use for daily driving and auto x. This is just my opnion, but then again, I have had over 20 different brands of tires on my car and race every weekend. they are cheap too. Run a 275/45/17 up front on the 9" rims.
5. rear tire/rim. For a few extra $$, you can get the 10.5" wide rear rims. They look sexy, and are great. Do them if you can. also, Sumutimo makes a 315/35/17 tire that is only $95. They grip great for cars under 450RWHP and look great too.
6. Sway bars. You need an adjustable rear sway bar. Either an add on one, or stiffer one. I prefer add on, because it is easier to fine tune.
7. Bushings. Dont bother with lower control arms, not worth the $$. But do invest in some poly bushings for them and your steering rack. much quicker turn in and less understeer. More road noise though. as for the rear, get some good lower control arms and watts link or something simmilar. When you corner, the rear axle moves side to side up to 2 inches!!!! this will eliminate this. DO NOT get upper control bushings!!! touching anything up there will hurt handeling!!! Unless your looking to only go straight.
What I would do: get the front coilovers. get taller and softer rear springs. (cut 1 coil of stock springs) this will drop car 1-1.5". more than an inch of drop in the rear kills weight transfer making it impossible to hook at launch. Then start at #1 up top and work your way down. By #4 you will have a very fun car. By #6 you can get a .90G sideforce.
Little suspension schooling:
Chassis lean is your "perception" of your cars handeling. Don't get me wrong, excessive leaning hampers good handeling, but it does not "cause" poor handeling.
A stock mustang is one of the poorist handeling sports cars out there. However, with a little tweeking, they can be made to stick upwards of 1G very cheaply.
Here are some things to keep in mind:
1. Don't lower your car too much!!! (mustangs limit for good handeling is about 1.5-1.75") Why? Because aftermarket springs are stiffer because they have less travel available to soak up a bump. Why this is bad... small bumps in the road make the wheel bounce, reducing tire contact with the road, thus, less traction.
2. Shocks. Lower your car, you HAVE TO HAVE good shocks. I would suggest the KYB AGX's because they are cheap, rugged, and adjustable. They will allow you to tune out some of your rear chassis leanand understeer as well. (note, rear pinion snubber needs to be trimmed 1" on a lowered car)
3.Wheels. Wider is better. 17x9 sounds fine unless your running over 400RWHP. A place called OE wheels on ebay sells nice rims. They are here in my town and have a nice product. Its like $400 for a full set of rims. check them out.
4. Tires. A good tire on a narrow rim, gives the same handeling as a ****ty tire on a wide rim. So do the rims first and save $$ in the long run. Kuhmo ecsta MX's are about the best I have found for the front to use for daily driving and auto x. This is just my opnion, but then again, I have had over 20 different brands of tires on my car and race every weekend. they are cheap too. Run a 275/45/17 up front on the 9" rims.
5. rear tire/rim. For a few extra $$, you can get the 10.5" wide rear rims. They look sexy, and are great. Do them if you can. also, Sumutimo makes a 315/35/17 tire that is only $95. They grip great for cars under 450RWHP and look great too.
6. Sway bars. You need an adjustable rear sway bar. Either an add on one, or stiffer one. I prefer add on, because it is easier to fine tune.
7. Bushings. Dont bother with lower control arms, not worth the $$. But do invest in some poly bushings for them and your steering rack. much quicker turn in and less understeer. More road noise though. as for the rear, get some good lower control arms and watts link or something simmilar. When you corner, the rear axle moves side to side up to 2 inches!!!! this will eliminate this. DO NOT get upper control bushings!!! touching anything up there will hurt handeling!!! Unless your looking to only go straight.
What I would do: get the front coilovers. get taller and softer rear springs. (cut 1 coil of stock springs) this will drop car 1-1.5". more than an inch of drop in the rear kills weight transfer making it impossible to hook at launch. Then start at #1 up top and work your way down. By #4 you will have a very fun car. By #6 you can get a .90G sideforce.
No offense but that's some terrible advice.
The inherent problem with the 4 link suspension is the rear, not the front. Don't believe me?.... call MM and ask them.
Here's what they tell you to do:
1. Good LCA's, spherical bearing and 3 piece poly bushing. I run their standard LCA.
2. PHB. Got theirs too.
3. Springs, shocks/struts (regular or C/O). I'm using H&R SS and Bilsteins with 4 bolt CC plates.
4. T/A. I'm considering this, even though I don't auto-x.
You will most likely be content with #'s 1-3. If you're serious about auto-x, then #4 is something to also be considered.
BennyBlown2v
New Member
QFT
I don't know why nobody has picked you up for not having SFCs yet. Here's what you do: Go to MM, get full length subs and the rear grip kit. Done.
The feeling you're describing sounds like the lateral motion of the rear axle that has already been described here. If you're flopping your car through autocross courses, it can be very noticable.
I'd say go 9 inch rims front and back. If you're autocrossing your problem is going to be understeer. A wider rim in the back will just affect the handling balance that much more. Once you've done the rear grip kit you'll probably start noticing just how bad the Mustang understeers. That's when you go to coil-overs up front and start tweaking the front suspension.
Since you've already got CC plates, one thing you can do for a bit more front grip is to put 2 marks on them: A street alignment and an autocross alignment. Up the camber for autocross, then put it back for the street.
The feeling you're describing sounds like the lateral motion of the rear axle that has already been described here. If you're flopping your car through autocross courses, it can be very noticable.
I'd say go 9 inch rims front and back. If you're autocrossing your problem is going to be understeer. A wider rim in the back will just affect the handling balance that much more. Once you've done the rear grip kit you'll probably start noticing just how bad the Mustang understeers. That's when you go to coil-overs up front and start tweaking the front suspension.
Since you've already got CC plates, one thing you can do for a bit more front grip is to put 2 marks on them: A street alignment and an autocross alignment. Up the camber for autocross, then put it back for the street.
Thanks for the addition. That should go in #1 in my post above (was late and I was tired).
I was going to suggest the installation of a Panhard Bar and moving the battery from the under hood area, to the trunk. That should tighten things up in the back end without adversely affecting drag racing capability or breaking the bank.
Rickey_Bobby
New Member
I never stated that the front was a problem and the rear is not.
If you dont auto x, then how do you know that your setup is superior.
You can read anywhere online that putting stiffer rear upper bushings is considered a "drag only" mod and hurts handeling.
Coil overs reduce brake dive and allow you to run softer rates which in turn keeps your wheels from bouncing over small bumps and reducing traction. Why? see my first post.
And I'm astonished that you consider wider rims poor advice.
As for rims, I specified that running the 10.5" rims would only benifit one with over about 450HP, as you naturally need more rubber.
And lastly, you recomend a panhard bar.
...My #7 I suggest a watt's link or something similar (which is a panhard bar)
..and your still talking about saving "drag race ability"
He asked for handeling advice and wanted to corner better. There are obviously different mods for drag vs. auto x. You clearly drag mostly. Which is fine and dandy, but your advice is skewed toward "your" setup, rather than His desired setup, being cornering power.
I did leave out the CC plates though. Kind of a no brainer, but they are needed alot. get the 4 bolt ones if you have coil overs, 3 bolt w/ coil overs may pop through your hood with a good bump.
That kit is not designed for road race/auto x applications, nor is any other upr product
I know you're new in the mustang world so input what the experenced ones like san~man, bdcardnial, squares98, benny, (damnit forgetting others) and I have to say when it comes to mustang handling.
You know the main ingredient of an auto-x is not a good handling car? It's about two main things: good tires and good brakes, they should be the main focus, then you can concentrate on the handling aspects like: LCA's, Springs, and Subframes as a starter
Rickey_Bobby
New Member
Are you for real? You must be joking....
UPR? For auto-x.
Get out of town. Go on CC.com and recommend UPR for auto-x and see how fast the door slams on your ass. They'll chew you up and spit you out faster than a pinch of Skoal.
So you're saying run C/O up front, and standard spring in the rear?
No one said a wider rim isn't good, but if you can't make use of the extra grip, what's the sense?
I stand by what I said. I'll take my MM gear I installed versus your UPR, KYB, and whatever else you run and I'd be willing to wager that, would you and I race on the same track, that you'd lose.
What I recommended is for auto-x, not drag race. If you thought that was a drag racing recommended setup, you pretty much put the noose around your own neck and hung yourself out to dry.
No offense, but go back to Mustang World or somewhere where they might actually believe you for a minute.
Now, you're recommending a drag racing suspension by getting into weight transfer. He asked for auto-x recommendations, and now you're talking about weight transfer. You even confuse yourself.
UPR? For auto-x.
Get out of town. Go on CC.com and recommend UPR for auto-x and see how fast the door slams on your ass. They'll chew you up and spit you out faster than a pinch of Skoal.Rickey_Bobby said:
So you're saying run C/O up front, and standard spring in the rear?
No one said a wider rim isn't good, but if you can't make use of the extra grip, what's the sense?
I stand by what I said. I'll take my MM gear I installed versus your UPR, KYB, and whatever else you run and I'd be willing to wager that, would you and I race on the same track, that you'd lose.
Rickey_Bobby said:
What I recommended is for auto-x, not drag race. If you thought that was a drag racing recommended setup, you pretty much put the noose around your own neck and hung yourself out to dry.
No offense, but go back to Mustang World or somewhere where they might actually believe you for a minute.
Rickey_Bobby said:
Now, you're recommending a drag racing suspension by getting into weight transfer. He asked for auto-x recommendations, and now you're talking about weight transfer. You even confuse yourself.
Gotta agree with Tom... if it's purely better times in auto-x you're looking for, tires and brakes. Tires will save you money in the long run too. Get a set of Kuhmo V710's on some 03 Cobra rims and save your street tires! If you want better overall street/auto-x handling, as well as better times go to the MM site. They won't start fights about who know more than who and can give you advise based on your budget and overall goals.
Disagree with the 'main' ingredient in auto-x though... driver, driver, driver.
Forgot about the battery to the trunk too... for a quick, cheap mod you'd be surprised how much of a difference it makes.
Disagree with the 'main' ingredient in auto-x though... driver, driver, driver.
Forgot about the battery to the trunk too... for a quick, cheap mod you'd be surprised how much of a difference it makes.
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