Can't Make Up My Mind What I Want To Do

Discussion in '1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-' started by 5.0Torx, Jul 9, 2013.

  1. 5.0 Ford Guy

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    Yeah I saw that. I won't be able to drop that much cash all at once. It sure would be nice though. I will be buying one piece at a time. I think it would actually be better so that I can tell what each part is doing. Add a part, drive it for awhile, add a part, etc.

    So, have you ever used the Griggs full frame kit? I am wondering how much it protrudes into the interior and how much of a pain it is to deal with. Because the rails extend up above the floorboard enough that you have to modify the driver side rail for the power seat.


    Sorry 5.0Torx. Did not mean to hijack your thread :ot: . It's just a cozy place to talk about suspension LOL.
     
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  2. Husky44

    Husky44 Active Member

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    Haven't used any Griggs stuff yet, looking at it for my 67. I used MM stuff on my 95. I really liked their products as well- well made, good instructions and product support, and really improved the handling. They don't make anything for the first Gen cars though,.
     
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  3. 5.0Torx

    5.0Torx Active Member

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    Ha no problem. Suspension is a big weak point on these cars. I put ss brake lines on the front of my 94, along with dot4 fluid and hawk hps brake pads all around in preparation for my autocross day and came to find that was overkill. The suspension was the biggest setback. I did also change my shocks with oe replacements from oreilleys because it was beating the crap out if me. I wanted to go with co-ready bilsteins but decided not to. Either way, that 4 link...its pretty bad imo. I really want an irs.
     
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  4. 5.0 Ford Guy

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    You would be really surprised what these cars can do with just springs and shocks. Drop some Ford C springs on there along with some Koni Sport Yellow adjustable struts and shocks. It will handle like a go-cart with a V8. Add a couple sway bars and the Vettes will be respecting you. These cars sitting at stock ride height are just ridiculous. Slam it!
     
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  5. 5.0Torx

    5.0Torx Active Member

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    None of that fixes the inherent issues with the geometry. The rear 4 link binds up, the front suspension doesnt do much in the way of adding camber in a corner, and on top of all that we dont have the stiffest chassis in the world. All that adds up to a car that is tuned from the factory to understeer enough to overcome its affinity for snap oversteer. Throwing stiff springs and shocks at it is the second step, imo, not the first. Ever tried accelerating HARD over bumps? Our cars will buck like crazy while the vettes simply hook and go. Not all racetracks or roads are smooth.

    Fwiw, I'm not bashing our cars, as a 1994 corvette is hardly a rocket ship either by todays standards. Really, ford just took way too long to give the mustang what it deserved. Imo, there isnt a mustang GT im crazy about from 1996 to 2009. I might rock an 08 bullitt or a 2010 GT, but the 11+s are the mustang GT s long awaited deliverance from the ages of being too cheap to be a serious competitor to other mid level sports cars. Thats to say nothing of the specialty cars and cobras, however, they all have suspension issues when it comes to handling because most guys just cruise or drag race with them. its too bad, because they can be made into a good track car. But if you've got $100, you need to spend $99 of it on suspension...maybe im just the lunatic who likes mustangs too much to get something else, but I do like road racing and I love my stang!
     
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  6. 5.0 Ford Guy

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    I agree with you. They don't handle worth a crap. The chassis are flimsy tuna cans. Turn into a corner at speed and you can feel the entire car flop from side to side like it has a fat lady in the trunk rolling around. But they can be made to handle very well even with the live rear axle. It just takes a few modifications and some money. But, consider this... Back in the day when these cars came out you could spend $20k on a Stang and throw $10k worth of suspension at it and blow away a $30k Vette with EASE. I did it with my '90 with far less.

    It's us die hard Mustang fans that are to blame that the Mustang doesn't handle well, because we are the ones trying to race these Vettes and BMW's. That's not what Ford intended these cars to do. So in my opinion Ford did it right all along. They built a cheap muscle car and left it up to the customer to make it the car THEY wanted it to be. I believe that has been a big plus to the Mustang's appeal all along. Take a look at every 'Stang on the road. Every one of them is different. Some go to the drag strip. Some go Autocrossing. Some are driven by 18 year old kids, and some by little old ladies. Bullitt on here is from Saudi Arabia. Then there is Ivan from Russia. This simply amazes me that these cars are being modified all around the world, by every walk of human life. Name another single car on the planet like it?

    My wife is very finicky about the cars she buys. She won't buy one with a dent, dirty interior, or that is more than 5 years old. She won't buy one that makes any engine noise or one that has too many miles. She knows just about as much about cars as I do. I let her drive my '94 vert home from the dealership where I bought it so she could see if she liked driving a convertible. This was three weeks ago. Three days ago she bought a yellow 2001 V6 Mustang that has a dent or ding on every single panel on the car. The interior has pieces broken and has dirt everywhere. And when you start it the lifters tick for the first minute or so. To top it off it has nearly 190k miles on it. The Mustang put a spell on her just as it did me 27 years ago when I bought my '65. Believe me when I say I cannot figure out what driving my car did to my wife. But I like it.

    You are correct that suspension should come second. Chassis stiffening should be the very first thing done to any Mustang. I was just saying the ride height of the Mustang kills it in the corners. The Mustang sits way too high. In my opinion, the biggest difference you are going to notice is swapping out the springs and shocks and getting the ride height down. All of the other things will make a difference. But none will be felt as much as springs and shocks.

    Here is the order I plan to install everything (my car came with a strut tower and k-member brace and Ford C springs and Tokico shocks and struts)...

    1. Sub-frame connectors
    2. Rear shock tower brace
    3. Sway bars
    4. Koni struts and shocks and coil-overs all around
    5. Rear control arms and panhard bar
    6. Tubular K-member and front control arms

    Then I might strat on the engine mods, if I ever do.
     
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  7. 5.0Torx

    5.0Torx Active Member

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    Good post 5.0 ford guy.

    Chassis stiffening is crucial indeed, but, to clarify, what I meant when I said springs and shocks should come second was that ditching the 4 link should come first. If you simply drop the ride height youre going to get the roll centers way too low front and rear and youll need roll bars the size of sewer pipes to compensate. I know figuring roll centers isnt at the top of most stang owners' to do list but it does make a huge impact on handling. It isnt discussed too much and is often neglected because its not as appealing as a set of flowmasters lol. But that is the big difference between the maximum motorsports $4500 kit and some $300 springs. All the big names in suspension fix the issues you can't easily see. theyre crazy expensive because they reengineered the car, basically, not to mention are providing totally new components.
     
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  8. creektrack

    creektrack Member

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    Hey Torx, I sent you a message...
     
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  9. 5.0Torx

    5.0Torx Active Member

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    [​IMG]


    Here's a pic of the interior at night. I'm pretty proud of this. Sorry for the image quality. This was taken with my cell phone.
     
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  10. 5.0 Ford Guy

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    That looks very good. Can you tell me which bulbs you used? I want mine to be blue just like that with the red needles. I already have the needles. I am going to order 7 bulbs so I have enough to do the heater controls as well.
     
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  11. 5.0Torx

    5.0Torx Active Member

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