No harm in swapping the firing order but the EEC will have hell as it’s expecting an HO firing order with the injection and spark.
Resolved Cranks but still doesn’t start. Ran through the checklist and still doesn’t start.
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Here’s where are today. MAJOR discovery. This is that “likely something stupid” that may have been the issue.
I read about these engines being notorious intake vacuum leakers so I grabbed my ratchet, extension and 1/2” socket to check the intake bolts. Sure enough, every single one was loose. “Torqued” to maybe 10#. I could have sworn I torqued them to 25# on the stand but maybe not because the stand wanted to move around. I got out the ole 3/8” torque wrench and torqued to 25#. It still won’t start but I’ll take to heart what has been said about the plugs probably being fouled and put some new ones in this afternoon. ($2 each for Autolites. No sense in “fighting” with cleaning fouled plugs at this point.) I’ll keep the old ones as spares, after torching the crud off of them.
I’ll report back this afternoon.
Edit for afternoon update: No bueno. Still doesn’t start. Does exactly the same thing.
I read about these engines being notorious intake vacuum leakers so I grabbed my ratchet, extension and 1/2” socket to check the intake bolts. Sure enough, every single one was loose. “Torqued” to maybe 10#. I could have sworn I torqued them to 25# on the stand but maybe not because the stand wanted to move around. I got out the ole 3/8” torque wrench and torqued to 25#. It still won’t start but I’ll take to heart what has been said about the plugs probably being fouled and put some new ones in this afternoon. ($2 each for Autolites. No sense in “fighting” with cleaning fouled plugs at this point.) I’ll keep the old ones as spares, after torching the crud off of them.
I’ll report back this afternoon.
Edit for afternoon update: No bueno. Still doesn’t start. Does exactly the same thing.
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manicmechanic007
5 Year Member
If you installed the cam 180 degrees out when you put the chain on, you will have no compression.
It happens
It happens
I have about 120 psi of compression on each cylinder. Rings are not seated so I don’t think I should have the normal 160 psi.
And younhave eyes on, the distributor is turning with the engine? If you have 120 psi compression, and a spark somewhere between 24 degrees before or after TDC, the starting fluid will ignite (it doesn’t burn).
Try this, take out spark plug #1, spray a generous amount of starter fluid, quickly reinstall and try starting it. If it doesn’t fire, and you still have 120 psi, the ignition timing isn’t even close; it can’t be.
Try this, take out spark plug #1, spray a generous amount of starter fluid, quickly reinstall and try starting it. If it doesn’t fire, and you still have 120 psi, the ignition timing isn’t even close; it can’t be.
Well, I don’t know what to tell you. Because it doesn’t start. I’ve had the distributor all over. I’ve seen it well within the timing that you referenced and it doesn’t start. I try to not turn it over too much to avoid flooding and washing down the cylinders with fuel.
manicmechanic007
5 Year Member
The distributor all over is a problem
Rough time it once right and be done with that part
I got a feeling your spark is either intermittent or timed wrong
You should have backfire or run if the big 3 is there
Rough time it once right and be done with that part
I got a feeling your spark is either intermittent or timed wrong
You should have backfire or run if the big 3 is there
I mean I’ve moved it all over. Not that the timing is all over the place.
I have reset the distributor many, many times with the exact same result. It is “rough timed” right now. I have seen my mark very close to the “correct” time.
What would cause intermittent spark? I’ve checked the coil, by the book it tests good. I’ve swapped the TFI with a known good one. All of the voltages are correct. Where do I go next? Replace the coil? Replace the cap and rotor?
Ok, I guess I’m confused. Did the car run ever? Is it starting still or what changed from your first message to now? I mean, what did you change that might have caused the bow, current, won’t even backfire, trying to start? I think if we know what it did before this post, it might help. Since we’re grasping at straws . . .
Hot Stang
Member
That's why you go old school. I'm using the original V6 body harness and computer. I'm powering my hei distributor and signal for fuel pump through it. I bought a cooling fan kit to wire up.
This build took some work including swapping out the subframe. As you know a '97 never came with a 5.0L.
If I was you I would check for power at different places. Does your fuel pump come on? How much fuel pressure do you have? Are you getting power at distributor? You have all your grounds hooked up? Many sensors us a common ground.
This build took some work including swapping out the subframe. As you know a '97 never came with a 5.0L.
If I was you I would check for power at different places. Does your fuel pump come on? How much fuel pressure do you have? Are you getting power at distributor? You have all your grounds hooked up? Many sensors us a common ground.
Attachments
Didn’t read the whole thread?
The engine has never really run at all. The swap was done in February and I’ve been trying to start it ever since. Back in the first post, I needed to work the gas pedal to keep it running. It has never idled or really even run for more than 5 seconds.
No one is grasping at straws. I have systematically eliminated nearly every issue that could cause it to not run. There are references to several different checklists that I’ve gone though.
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That's not why you go 'old school'.
that ruins the value of the car, makes it nearly impossible to register and drive in most states, you can say you don't care and you're never gonna sell it all day, it is your car and you can do whatever with it, I won't go any farther 'cept to say 'don't do it'.
This is my opinion,
This is a transplanted 5.0 in a European version of the Taurus SHO with an aftermarket harness so something is off. This thing should start or at least pop and wheeze.
The bad part is this is a new engine and there is a real danger of 'cylinder wash'.
I’m trying really hard to not kill this thing before I even get to take it around the block.
They were certainly as ubiquitous as the Taurus in Europe.
Have you checked to make sure the pins in the painless harness are correct? By this I mean that the harness is wired into the EEC connector properly.
In a roundabout kind of way, yes. All of the sensors have the correct voltages and are providing the correct information back to the computer.
Today I installed a new NAPA coil and throttle position sensor. No change.
At this point it’s either a wiring problem hence the need to verify the pinout on the Painless harness is the same as what the EEC-IV is expecting.
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds:
Or you have a timing issue either in the camshaft or distributor. The exhaust stroke and the compression stroke will both blow air out of the spark plug hole. 100% verification is watching the #1 intake rocker arm come up and then fall all the way down. This is when the piston is at or near TDC on the compression stroke.
This is when you can confirm if the balancer is good as it should read 0 on the pointer at true TDC.
I built a piston stop and detailed it here and how I go about using it. For me with a new motor or balancer I do this to make sure things are lining up.
stangnet.com
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds:
Or you have a timing issue either in the camshaft or distributor. The exhaust stroke and the compression stroke will both blow air out of the spark plug hole. 100% verification is watching the #1 intake rocker arm come up and then fall all the way down. This is when the piston is at or near TDC on the compression stroke.
This is when you can confirm if the balancer is good as it should read 0 on the pointer at true TDC.
I built a piston stop and detailed it here and how I go about using it. For me with a new motor or balancer I do this to make sure things are lining up.
Engine - Can't get the motor to fire.
Pretty much anytime someone has the distributor out, does internal engine work that involves rotating the engine, and then it won’t start when all back together is because the distributor is 180* out. Ask me how I know lol.
stangnet.com
At this point it’s either a wiring problem hence the need to verify the pinout on the Painless harness is the same as what the EEC-IV is expecting.
Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds:
Or you have a timing issue either in the camshaft or distributor. The exhaust stroke and the compression stroke will both blow air out of the spark plug hole. 100% verification is watching the #1 intake rocker arm come up and then fall all the way down. This is when the piston is at or near TDC on the compression stroke.
This is when you can confirm if the balancer is good as it should read 0 on the pointer at true TDC.
I’m pretty sure I checked that when I was installing the pushrods and rockers. Turned the crank to the next cylinder in the firing order to set them up. I will definitely check it again. Will need to pull the valve cover on that side. At least it doesn’t have the plenum hanging over that side. Lol.
At this point, I’m seriously considering taking the front end of the engine off to make sure it’s all set up properly. (I do wish I had taken a pic of the timing chain when I assembled it. I’m not really one to do pics like that though.)
manicmechanic007
5 Year Member
If it runs for a few seconds? The wiring is most likely correct
I think you are missing something like spark or possibly fuel pressure after the initial start
For the next start attempt, have 2 spark testers on the car and a fuel pressure gauge
I got a sneaky feeling the stator in your distributor if failing or the TFI module is no good, even if replaced
Use the two spark testers
I think you are missing something like spark or possibly fuel pressure after the initial start
For the next start attempt, have 2 spark testers on the car and a fuel pressure gauge
I got a sneaky feeling the stator in your distributor if failing or the TFI module is no good, even if replaced
Use the two spark testers
I only have one spark tester. It produces produces pulsed spark, as it should. Plugs are getting spark. I have to figure out a way to verify the sparks are happening when they're supposed to without killing the cylinder walls.
In other news, I pulled the valve cover to make sure the distributor isn't 180 degrees out. I have the HB on "-0-" the rockers on #1 both have slack (base circle) and the rotor is pointing directly at the #1 post on the cap.
In other, other news, since the VC is off, I checked the oil for gas smell. Yup. The oil has a "faint" odor of gasoline. I guess I'm shooting oil in each cylinder and changing the oil before I do much else, in hopes of saving the pistons and cylinder walls. There's a couple thousand bucks in that bottom end that I can't afford to do again.
So this is just after when the #1 cylinder intake rocker came up and then back down? Just making sure as the cam goes on the base circle twice per combustion cycle per cylinder. Once after the intake valve cycles and once after the exhaust valve cycles.
I am honestly not trying to be a pain in the rear just wanted to completely verify that the timing is mechanically correct.
I am honestly not trying to be a pain in the rear just wanted to completely verify that the timing is mechanically correct.
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