Dies when put into gear

Discussion in 'Classic Mustang Specific Tech' started by t_chelle16, May 16, 2007.


  1. t_chelle16

    t_chelle16 Keeper of the closet key Founding Member

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    So far so good. Did a little more adjusting on the carb, and then took it for a test drive (it'll get up to 55 real quick, but it accelerates a lot smoother than it did before). Then after about 5 hours I went back out, fired it up and put it in gear just to check and it was still fine. I'll start driving it to work again tomorrow.

    -Chelle
     
    #61
  2. 66Runt

    66Runt New Member

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  3. Rusty67

    Rusty67 Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to jinx you but it sounds like you got it worked out. Good job and happy driving =-)
     
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  4. StangDreamin'

    StangDreamin' Founding Member

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    Yay, Chelle!

    Somehow I missed the whole "electronic ignition" part; else I'd have jumped in back then. Solid state components+heat+varying battery voltages usually = trouble.
    I'm gonna put my "post-mortem" hat on and take an "educated WAG". Electrolytic capacitor drying out in the ignition module; requires a lot of voltage to charge up; and the voltage is very likely dropping at idle (alternator not spinning quite as fast). Doesn't even have to be in the "charge-discharge circuit"; in fact, I'd bet it wasn't. More likely in the power supply circuit for the whole box; if it was in the charge-discharge circuit; it would have died long ago.

    I'm guessing electrolytic because a tantalum cap succumbs to heat a lot sooner, as well as being quite a bit more ex$pensive (and you said this was a cheapie).
    Oh yeah, when they finally stops messing with you and dies it's with a loud BANG. Have a few scars in my left underarm from working on a two-way radio, and reaching across the chassis to tweak the bench power supply about the time a tantalum cap let go. Sounded like a .38; felt like a .410 shotgun shell :eek:
     
    #64
  5. SoCalCruising

    SoCalCruising Founding Member

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    Yeah, the tantalum cap.
     
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  6. t_chelle16

    t_chelle16 Keeper of the closet key Founding Member

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    It died today after work. Dad doesn't want to mess with it any more so I'm going to see if the Nissan dealership will look at it. I ****in hate this car.

    EDIT: went out and tried it again and now it's fine. Idling where it should be and went into gear just fine, but it's also fully warmed up. We're going to go pick the brain of our mechanic friend at the dealership and see if he can think of anything and I'll also try it again tomorrow when the engine is cold again and see what it does.

    I still ****in hate this car, though.

    -Chelle
     
    #66
  7. Capt Dan

    Capt Dan New Member

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  8. pabear89

    pabear89 Active Member

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    Have you checked the breaker plate for movement?
    from your discreptions it sounds like the bushings are bad or it needs to be lubed.

    It will make it run poorly and stall when it can't advance or retard the timing with the vac advance control.

    Could be why you were having that 60* problem.

    PB
     
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  9. BlackGMC

    BlackGMC New Member

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    I think you had several problems going on all at once, the alternator, bad ignition, etc. But it seems that you still have a few problems left. This is the joy of owning a classic...... Believe me I had seen them all at least once.

    On a cold start up how long do you let it idle before putting it into gear? Do you just start it up and drop it into gear then it dies????

    You may not have your choke setup up properly now. I had the same carb you do, and at cold start up the choke would make it idle roughly 1000rpm, then after a min or two I would reve the motor and it would come down to ~700rpm. Does yours do this?
     
    #69
  10. t_chelle16

    t_chelle16 Keeper of the closet key Founding Member

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    No AC. Just my windows, cowl/underdash vent and 65 mph.

    The 60* problem was fixed by replacing all the electronic ignition stuff.


    I always let it warm up for at least 30 sec - 1 minute (today I let it warm up through 1/2 of Let it Be by the Beatles :p) . And when it was getting really bad (back in my 7-attempts-just-to-get-out-of-the-parking-lot days), I'd even let it warm up a full two minutes/until the needle came off the "C" on the temp gauge.

    Actually, I think the choke (sort of) was part of the problem today. I don't think I tapped the gas before starting it up so the choke didn't engage and it was idling really low (around 700 rpm - but yes, it normally idles higher then after a little while if I tap the gas, the idle drops down - it didn't do it this afternoon, though) so when I put it in gear, the idle dropped even lower. We did a little more tweeking with the carb and I'm going to make a conscious effort to make sure I stomp the gas before starting it up (I generally do anyway, but this was just one of those oddball days) and let it warm up a full minute before putting it in gear.

    That said, something still isn't right. There's still too much of a difference between the idle in park/neutral and when I put it in gear. To get it to idle around 700 - 800 in gear, the idle is around 1500 - 1600 in park/neutral. There's practically nothing left on the engine to replace/fix so it's got to be something in the tranny. I've already got the tranny rebuild kit already and I have 3 days off next weekend so we're going to try to get the tranny out of my parts car and start rebuilding it then.
    And I'm still really hating this car right now.

    -Chelle
     
    #70
  11. t_chelle16

    t_chelle16 Keeper of the closet key Founding Member

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    Double post
     
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  12. BlackGMC

    BlackGMC New Member

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    I still think it is a choke problem. For example, when my choke was engaged it idled up high like it was setup to to do, but if I dropped it into gear with the choke still engaged the RPM would drop like yours. For starters I would adjust the fast idle down to like 1000 rpm with the choke engaged and in park. The rpms can drop a pretty good amount due to your converter. In my car I just kept reving it in park until the idle came down, when I mean rev, I am talking 3000+.

    What all have you adjusted on the choke side of the carb? Are you sure the choke is grounded to a good spot and where are you getting the 12v source?

    Hang in there man, it will work it self out!!
     
    #72
  13. t_chelle16

    t_chelle16 Keeper of the closet key Founding Member

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    I actually let my dad do all the carb adjusting (about the only thing I'll just let him do w/o me having a hand in it - I suck at carb tuning) so I'll have to ask him what all he's done. But it's grounded to one of the bolts on the top of the carb (I guess I can try grounding it to the block somewhere) and the power is coming from the starter relay.

    -Chelle
     
    #73
  14. BlackGMC

    BlackGMC New Member

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    Here is an couple of article that might help. It is for an edlebrock but carter and edlebrock are pretty much the same. I don't know exactly which one your using from the picture put it should be the same either way.

    http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2005/08/EdelbrockCarburetor/


    Can you take a picture of the carb on the car? And if you can take a pic from each side.
     
    #74
  15. BlackGMC

    BlackGMC New Member

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    A couple of other things, do you have the vacuum hose from the distributor pluged into the small vacuum port on the passenger side? Do you have the PVC hose pluged into the middle vacuum port (the big one)? Do you have the small vacuum port on the drivers side pluged off? Like the attached pic? Have you tried a new PVC valve? or just capping it off at the carb temporarly?
     

    Attached Files:

    #75
  16. t_chelle16

    t_chelle16 Keeper of the closet key Founding Member

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    Sorry it took a while to get back, I've been really busy that last couple of days.

    Here's the pics of the carb:
    http://chelle.mine.nu/sadie/sadie2/engine/carb01.jpg
    http://chelle.mine.nu/sadie/sadie2/engine/carb02.jpg
    http://chelle.mine.nu/sadie/sadie2/engine/carb03.jpg
    http://chelle.mine.nu/sadie/sadie2/engine/carb04.jpg

    It's been running kind of so-so the last few days. I've been making sure to let it warm up at least 1 full minute, sometimes 2. Sometimes when I start it up, it will idle at 1000 - 1200 then drop down to 800 in gear and idle a bit rough (and it died once today at work). Other times it will idle at 2000, then after a minute, I'll tap the gas and it will drop down to 800 - 1000 and sometimes it will do okay when I put it in gear (night before last, it ran absolutely perfectly) and other times it will idle rough and try to die. And today I was at a stop light (just missed the green so I had to sit for a while) and it started idling rough so I threw it into neutral until the light changed (this was about a mile or two from work so it was close to being fully warmed up). So it's kind of hit or miss how it runs (or starts out because once it gets going, it does really well) but it's not bad enough that I can't drive it . . . yet.

    EDIT: Oh, and I don't have a PCV valve on the car at the moment, but I did have one on it before I changed the engine. Right now there's a breather cap on the pass. side valve cover and on the driver's side cover the cap is supposed to have a hose on it that goes up to a connector on the base of the air filter, but right now, I don't have a hose on it (gotta dig though my garage and find a chunk of hose that will fit).

    -Chelle
     
    #76
  17. bnickel

    bnickel Founding Member

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    putting the pcv valve on might help some but i doubt it will cure the problem. another thing to check is the wear in the distributor shaft. pull the cap and wiggle the rotor if there is any more than just slight interference movement the shaft bushing is worn out and you should get a rebuilt dizzy. did you swap the spare coil on yet? if not i'd try that too just to see if that fixes it, i've had coils do funny stuff when they get hot. my old 70 cougar would die in the middle of nowhere after it had been running for 45 minutes to an hour but it didn't do it all the time and every single time it happened i was way out in BFE.
     
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  18. bnickel

    bnickel Founding Member

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    you should probably put your throttle return spring somewhere besides on teh throttle linkage too, that is not a safe place fo it. i doubt it will fix your stalling problem but it might help, that is very possibly the reason the idle is fluctuating so much. it needs to attached to something that doesn't move, like an intake bolt or one even one of those wire holddown clamps you have on the valve cover bolts.
     
    #78
  19. t_chelle16

    t_chelle16 Keeper of the closet key Founding Member

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    LOL. Yeah, it was causing the car to idle at around 3000 rpm the other day. That thingie (sorry, don't know the name) between it and the carb was getting stuck. I'll try to get it moved tomorrow. And I have a 3 day weekend coming up so I plan on getting some other stuff (like swapping out the coil) done then.

    -Chelle
     
    #79
  20. t_chelle16

    t_chelle16 Keeper of the closet key Founding Member

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    I haven't had a chance to work on it yet, but here's a little update.

    It's kind of settled in to idling at around 1000 in park and around 800 in gear and I've found that if I start moving as soon as I put it into gear, it does perfectly, ven if I only let it warm up for 30 seconds or so. It hasn't died since the last time I posted about. If we can't get it any better than this, I can totally live with it (I'd like it to be perfect, but the way it is now, really isn't that bad and with it being temperamental, that just means it will be harder to steal. ;) ).

    It does still do the rough idle/missing after sitting a while at a red light so I'm going to try bumping the idle up just a little (maybe get it to idle around1100 - 1200 in park and 900 - 1000 in gear). That may very well be all it needs.

    But having said that, I'm still going to rebuild Sadie's tranny because I need to anyway. This tranny slips going into 3rd and I still need to learn about trannys so I need the experience. And I'm going to relocate that throttle spring.
     
    #80

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