Dies when put into gear

Discussion in 'Classic Mustang Specific Tech' started by t_chelle16, May 16, 2007.

  1. SL 1993 R

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    carb would be my guess.. see if can find someone who has a similar setup, and see if you can borrow parts of their car for the day to try and figure out what is wrong with yours... lot of work, but it would be a way to avoid spending money on parts that did not need replacing. For the rust in the line suggestions, get a cheap glass in line filter, and you will be able to easily see if this is a problem..
     
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  2. t_chelle16

    t_chelle16 Keeper of the closet key
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    Actually, I've already bought the new carb & intake (they're so purdy! :D) and I'll be putting them on tomorrow (assuming it doesn't rain too much). It's been over a year since this problem started and I'm tired of fighting with it. It's worth $400 in new parts to not have to deal with it and keep trying different things only to find out it didn't work.

    Oh, and I have a glass fuel filter and it looks fine.

    -Chelle
     
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  3. t_chelle16

    t_chelle16 Keeper of the closet key
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    Got the new intake & carb on but in the process of taking off the old intake, I accidently forgot to mark where the rotor was pointed. So we pulled the #1 plug found top dead center, got everything back together, and now it will not run unless it's 60* before TDC. We've checked & rechecked the firing order about 5 times and it's correct.

    And incidently, when it was running it still died in gear.

    -Chelle
     
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  4. mlpdeals

    mlpdeals New Member

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    You say C4 auto tranny.
    1)Did you try disconnecting the vacuum line to the modulator?
    2)If you keep your foot on the gas can you always keep it from dying as you move the gear selector? (if not then you may have an electrical issue with the netrual safety switch, Ive seen one that had the insulation burned thru that caused a short in the ign sw)
    3)What about starting it in Neutral then moving to R or D, same situation? or different for D?
    4)with all the testing you have done in the vacuum area I would take another look at the torque converter/tranny.
     
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  5. bnickel

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    sounds like you have 180* out. pull the valve cover, turn the motor over until both valves on #1 cylinder are closed, right when the intake valve closes but before the exhaust valve opens. that's TDC on the compression stroke.
     
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  6. t_chelle16

    t_chelle16 Keeper of the closet key
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    I had my finger in the spark plug hole while my dad turned the engine and could physically feel the piston moving and the compression so I know it was TDC.

    We also pulled all the plugs and checked for compression/piston in all of the cylinders to double check that we had the right firing order.

    EDIT: Just to humor you, we tried it 180 out and that's definitely not it.

    -Chelle
     
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  7. t_chelle16

    t_chelle16 Keeper of the closet key
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    My immidiate concern right now is teh 60* thing, but to answer your questions:

    1 - Disconnecting the vacuum line to the modulator makes no difference.

    2 - Occasionally, keeping my foot on the gas will help, but generally not.

    3 - Starting from neutral and going into gear (either reverse or drive) from there makes absolutely no difference.

    4 - If it's still dieing (after we get this 60* thing figured out) with the new intake & carb, and if I haven't set the car on fire or beat it with a baseball bat by then, my next project will be rebuilding the tranny from my parts car and when I do that I'll get a new torque converter.

    -Chelle
     
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  8. rbohm

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    sounds like your outer balancer ring has slipped and you are not getting an accurate timing reading.
     
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  9. t_chelle16

    t_chelle16 Keeper of the closet key
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    It's a new balancer. I'll look at it tomorrow, but what are the odds of a new balancer doing that?

    -Chelle
     
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  10. rbohm

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    same as an old one.
     
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  11. t_chelle16

    t_chelle16 Keeper of the closet key
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    Well, it's not the balancer. When we were trying to set it at TDC, when I'd feel for the pison at the top of the cylinder, dad was watching the harmonic balancer and it was right at 0 when I'd feel the piston change from moving up to going back down.

    -Chelle
     
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  12. Rusty67

    Rusty67 Well-Known Member

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    If you can get yer hands on a manual trans bell housing and bolt that up with the trans not connected to the motor and see if it still does it that would provably tell you something. That being said I don't think you have those spare parts lying around like I do. Maybe you know someone locally you could borrow them from ?

    Edit:
    Just remembered you have a 2nd C4... maybe you could use the bellhousing off of that altho I think that means you have to take the thing 1/2 way apart to get it off.
     
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  13. bnickel

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    well Chelle, you either have the distributor 180 out or very damn close to it or you probably wired the dizzy backwards meaning you have the rotation of the firing order backwards or BOTH. but don't humor me, i'm only trying to help. i've built enough engines and screwed things up like that enough to know what a problem sounds like. if you don't like my advice then don't use it, but don't humor me!
     
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  14. t_chelle16

    t_chelle16 Keeper of the closet key
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    It is absolutely not 180 out and the firing order is not backwards. We've checked both of those things numerous times. I've had it 180 out before so I know what it does and when I set it 180 out it did exactly what it did the first time I had it 180 out (spit gas out the top of the carb and blew a cap off one of the vacuum ports). Plus I had my finger physically in the spark plug hole on the #1 cylinder, felt the air being pushed out the hole (so I know it was the compression stroke) and physically felt the piston at the top of the cylinder.

    And we checked the firing order at least 5 times using the shop manual, instructions that came with the intake, the firing order that I found off the internet, and previous pictures of the engine (all of which were the same). Plus Dad turned the engine and I stuck my fingers in each spark plug hole to check for the piston/compression on each cylinder just to quadruple check the firing order.

    Anyway, I ended up buying a new electronic ignition kit so I'm going to try replacing that and see if that does it.

    -Chelle
     
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  15. bnickel

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    which cylinder bank are you using for the number 1 plug? on a small ford it is the passenger side cylinder bank
     
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  16. 66Runt

    66Runt New Member

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  17. t_chelle16

    t_chelle16 Keeper of the closet key
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    Yes, #1 is the front one on the passenger side.

    Right now it has a Flamethrower kit that the previous owner installed. The new one I got is an Accel. I honestly don't know a whole lot about the different kinds of electronic ignitions, but Dad says this one is better than whats on there. And the choke is hooked up to the starter relay. And while we're replacing the ignition stuff I'll check the coil (I have a spare one laying around too).

    Thanks. Although lately I've been considering naming the car Satan. Actually I think this car curse is contageous. My dad's been having problems with his Jeep that he can't figure out and a girl at work started having problems with her car this morning. I think I started and epidemic. lol

    -Chelle
     
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  18. 66Runt

    66Runt New Member

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  19. t_chelle16

    t_chelle16 Keeper of the closet key
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    Yay! Solved the 60* problem. It was the ignition module. Put the new kit on and it fired right up.

    And the 1st time I dropped it in gear, it didn't run great, but it didn't die and after dad did a little tweeking on the carb (brand spankin new carb) the idle smoothed out. It did miss occasionally, but dad said it was a low RPM miss and should straighten out as the engine warms up. I'm still crossing my fingers on this problem until I've driven it at least a week w/o it dieing.

    Oh, and I've officially come up with a name for the car. It was originally new Sadie because I was going to use it as essentially a body transplant for my other 67, but that ended up not happening so my dad suggested Nellie after my great grandmother, but it's been too much of a PITA for that, plus mom & I decided it's more of a boy than a girl. So the new name is Murphy after Murphy's law (a little better than calling it Satan).

    -Chelle
     
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  20. NasaGT

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    Congratulations! Hopefully this will be then of your stalling problems. :nice:
     
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