emissions

Discussion in '1974 - 1978 Mustang II Talk & Tech' started by 1970impala, May 24, 2005.


  1. 1970impala

    1970impala Please God, somebody find me some WHITE CARGO PANE Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2002
    Messages:
    1,450
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Ok, here are a couple of questions for the professional die-hards on here. I am thinking of 77sleeper, Sal, Tim, Dave and a few others.

    Is it at all possible a 77, 302 Cobra did NOT come with a smog pump? Does anyone have an emissions diagram as to all the parts that belong with a smog pump? Mine did NOT have a smog pump when i bought it and I find it VERY difficult that the seller had taken it off when everything else was untouched. Original spark plug wires, cap, exhaust, etc. and so on...was still on there. I just don't get it. It was Michigan built and sent to Texas. Please help, :shrug: Anyone have a clue???? :(
    #1
  2. COBRAIIW

    COBRAIIW New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2003
    Messages:
    592
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I believe it to be possible, back in the late seventies not all the states had emissions laws,and if the car was going to be sold in a state without the laws,it would have been possible to have left it off from the factory.
    Or another theory, that the car was destined to be sold outside the USA.

    Theories only, rebuttalls welcome.
    #2
  3. 1970impala

    1970impala Please God, somebody find me some WHITE CARGO PANE Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2002
    Messages:
    1,450
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    thanks for the reply. I honestly have NO brackets, bolts, nothing to even tell me there was something on this motor as far as a smog pump. Not even an extra pulley. You are one for the "maybe not" vote....i hope you are right. Wondering what everyone else has to say. thanks.
    #3
  4. LXXVICOBRA

    LXXVICOBRA Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 1999
    Messages:
    506
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I could initially agree to the cars being shipped to Canada as being likely to not have the air pump and related emissions equiptment.

    This would be conceived in part, from information I had posted recently in another thread (according to my factory shop manuals) that some II's with the V8 were sold without converters... thus in turn, with what I would consider as a lack of need for an air pump.

    However, additional research from the same manual also states, that all cars are were equipted with the thermactor system. And, there were two different systems...one for cars with a catalytic converter, and one without.
    So, from this I would conclude that your equiptment was removed.

    Jon, do your current exhaust manifolds have the air supply tubing attached to them...or are they plugged? This might help answer your question. For the record, the stuff was easy to remove as I recall...having trashed it all way back in '77....LOL
    #4
  5. LXXVICOBRA

    LXXVICOBRA Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 1999
    Messages:
    506
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    A slight correction to my previous post...I meant tubing to the heads, as opposed to the exhaust manifolds.
    #5
  6. Blue Thunder

    Blue Thunder Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,059
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Emissions?? Smog pumps?? What IS this strange language in which you speak??
    haha.

    In all seriousness, I think it's possible to have a non-smog-pump equipped '77 car, but I'm not 100% sure.
    #6
  7. 77sleeper

    77sleeper GO BUCS! Founding Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 1999
    Messages:
    7,491
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    smog pumps are notorious for failing if the car sits for more than a month, what is connected to the crossover in the back of the heads?
    #7
  8. Wart

    Wart I'm Mad as HELL and I'M not Gonna Take it ANYMORE! Founding Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 1998
    Messages:
    3,121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    56
    The "thermicator"/ AIR system predates catalytic converters by ~ 9 years. They made their first appearance in '66.
    #8
  9. 77sleeper

    77sleeper GO BUCS! Founding Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 1999
    Messages:
    7,491
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    interesting thing is that the II used the smog pump in lieu of a spacer to hols the adjustment arm of the alternator bracket, at least on the AC cars. How is the adjustment arm of your alternator connected to the block?
    #9
  10. Vince

    Vince Vince the Fabricator Founding Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2000
    Messages:
    623
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    The smog pump is a bit of a mystery to me too. My King Cobra is a Canadian model and it had the smog pump. But I met a guy a few years back with another Canadian King Cobra with no smog pump (from the factory). My car is a 4 speed with no AC and his was auto with AC, if that makes a difference? Hey sleeper, my car still had a short spacer in addition to the smog pump.
    #10
  11. cobraii351

    cobraii351 Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2000
    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    37

    As for emmisions is concerned mainly CA had enforced emmisions laws. But the real requirements were mandated by the feds. Not the individual states. Looking at the 75, 76, 77, and 78 MVMA sheets they all call for a thermactor system.
    #11
  12. 1970impala

    1970impala Please God, somebody find me some WHITE CARGO PANE Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2002
    Messages:
    1,450
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    hi, i don't remember seeing any tubing on the back of the heads. Yes, it does have the EGR valve, though. I will have to check this weekend. I have another show on Sunday and will check then. If the tubing is missing, where is the tubing supposed to go in the head? does anyone have a pic?
    #12
  13. 1970impala

    1970impala Please God, somebody find me some WHITE CARGO PANE Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2002
    Messages:
    1,450
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    hmmmmm, well.....as far as i know, i have a regular alternator bracket. I honestly don't know what i am looking for. :shrug:

    I also can mention I have never replaced any brackets that were originally on the motor.
    #13
  14. 77sleeper

    77sleeper GO BUCS! Founding Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 1999
    Messages:
    7,491
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I do not have the original setup anymore, but the slotted arm on the alt bracket held the pumps top bolt (and a spacer), how is this setup on your car
    #14
  15. 1970impala

    1970impala Please God, somebody find me some WHITE CARGO PANE Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2002
    Messages:
    1,450
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    You definitely have my curiosity up now. I will check tonight. My guess is that I have the bracket and spacer for the alt and thats it. Where on the heads is this tube thinggy supposed to go into? What side? I can see I am going to have fun tonight..... :nonono: :bang:
    #15
  16. 1970impala

    1970impala Please God, somebody find me some WHITE CARGO PANE Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2002
    Messages:
    1,450
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I did win this a day or two ago only in the instance that i may need it. It does have a 77 code on it. This issue all started when Tim was helping me work on my car.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...d=1,1&item=7975204561&sspagename=STRK:MEWN:IT

    Please let me know if there is more Info that someone may have. I wonder what Sal has to say about this as well.

    Since I now have the pump, If anyone has the emission tubing, brackets, etc for a 302, please let me know as i am interested.....

    However.....

    I will only use this "stuff" if there is no doubt. :D
    #16
  17. Wart

    Wart I'm Mad as HELL and I'M not Gonna Take it ANYMORE! Founding Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 1998
    Messages:
    3,121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    56

    Do you have the DSO code?
    #17
  18. LXXVICOBRA

    LXXVICOBRA Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 1999
    Messages:
    506
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jon, the tubing screwed into the upper rear of both heads. I just thought you might check here to see if there is any sign of previous removal/tampering, and see what's currently being used to plug the holes.
    Anyone that would have gone to the trouble of removing the pump, would most likely have removed all the related plumbing/tubing too. I don't belive there is anything that's part of the thermactor sytem being directly attached to your EGR stuff. Seems to me if you had one system though, you probably had the other too.
    In any case, if it can't be proven one way or another, I wouldn't let some judge force me to have smog crap installed now....bad enough some states still push the issue with such old cars. I'd make them (judges) prove to you that is was there in the first place.

    Wart...that's a good point. I'd forgotten that many cars in the CA market had varients of that system dating back to the mid sixties.
    #18
  19. LXXVICOBRA

    LXXVICOBRA Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 1999
    Messages:
    506
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    But, someone else may have. Don't rule out the possibility too, that the heads themselves may have been changed. After de-smogging, that was something else I did.... back in the old days. :D
    #19
  20. Wart

    Wart I'm Mad as HELL and I'M not Gonna Take it ANYMORE! Founding Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 1998
    Messages:
    3,121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    56

    I agree so much that I wouldn't think of putting the system on hte car.

    Imp, being Imp, and since this isn't an issue like chalk marks and such, should first request, then demand, some form of verifiable proof before starting to collect parts. Let alone installing the system. Imp being so sure it as it was from the factory. Or dealer.

    Really.


    Thanks,

    I remember reading about thermacator and IMCO, then I heard something about cats being made manditory.

    My '67 manual gives '66 as the thermacator date but makes no mention of cats. .... later manuals (Motor and Chilton) mention thermacator and IMCO, and still later manuals mention thermacator pumps with cats .....

    And I thought it a pita just making and keeping IIs running.

    I wouldn't want the nightmare of a Judge who thinks they know everything about a II.
    #20

Share This Page