emissions
- Thread starter 1970impala
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Wart said:Hey, Impalla,
This is the Hell you've chosen.
Thanks. Someone has to preserve a stock II. I've found I can't.
True. True. I don't deny it.
Although, I think I will go around now and buy up the parts and have them on hand if and when the time comes. The way things are going, these MII parts have been/are getting scarce. I completely agree with you and LXXVICOBRA. I sincerely doubt this guy did anything. I looked at the back of my motor last night and there are no signs of any tubing at all. Just a thin metal tube for the tranny that I had seen briefly with a flashlight. Speaking about parts. I attended a car show this past Saturday. I was walking around and my wife and daughter stayed with the car. She said a large man went up to her and said the car was in beautiful condition and mentioned the time has arrived for these cars and they will increase in value considerably beacuse of the rarity..."just wait and see".
I did win 1st place in the mustang class. I took pictures and the store is developing them now. I get the prints and CD done at the same time so I will post when I get them back.
Thanks for all the help. You guys, gals are the greatest! If anyone has this emissions tubing, brakets, etc. Please let me know. I am interested. Thanks for everyone's help!
1970impala said:Ok, here are a couple of questions for the professional die-hards on here. I am thinking of 77sleeper, Sal, Tim, Dave and a few others.
Is it at all possible a 77, 302 Cobra did NOT come with a smog pump? Does anyone have an emissions diagram as to all the parts that belong with a smog pump? Mine did NOT have a smog pump when i bought it and I find it VERY difficult that the seller had taken it off when everything else was untouched. Original spark plug wires, cap, exhaust, etc. and so on...was still on there. I just don't get it. It was Michigan built and sent to Texas. Please help,Anyone have a clue????
Hey 70 Impala, I just pulled the 302 "smogged" engine from my 78KC and put a 351W in it. I have all of the parts, smog pump manifolds and hoses with digital pics of the set-up. I was thinking of listing it on e-bay. I have the manifolds,(look like new) smog pump, brackets, hoses and also a 2 1/2" complete stainless steel exhaust with muffler set-up for it. It is all sitting on a bench in my garge. As far as I know, it all worked when I pulled it. The engine had 58,000 miles on it and last time it passed emissions. Now's a different story.
Now the engine is sitting in a 71 stang convertible I am building for my wife.
If your interested, e-mail me @ [email protected]. I dont know what its worth (if anything). Let me know.
Jon,
If you have the correct smog heads and no tubing, there should currently be a plug on the upper rear of each. I'd expect you would find either a regular hexhead bolt or a square head bolt having been used to plug the holes the air injection tubes went into. If you have no such plugs or opening, I'd assume someone put pre-smog heads on in place of the originals.
BTW, way2fast78 has indicated that his setup for '78 has smog manifolds. I'm assuming that he means exhaust manifolds, that have similar tubing running into them. I guess this is why I'd thought earlier in this thread, that this may have been true, as I'm certain I've seen this kind of setup previously too. Perhaps '77 and '78 were this way...but, I'm almost positive '75 and '76 tubes went directly into the heads. Either way, the purpose was to inject cool air into the exhaust port of the exhaust valves to aid in combustion.
One last thing....if you car still has the "original" (not a repro) emission sticker on the valve cover, you might find some reference to a thermactor system here too.
If you have the correct smog heads and no tubing, there should currently be a plug on the upper rear of each. I'd expect you would find either a regular hexhead bolt or a square head bolt having been used to plug the holes the air injection tubes went into. If you have no such plugs or opening, I'd assume someone put pre-smog heads on in place of the originals.
BTW, way2fast78 has indicated that his setup for '78 has smog manifolds. I'm assuming that he means exhaust manifolds, that have similar tubing running into them. I guess this is why I'd thought earlier in this thread, that this may have been true, as I'm certain I've seen this kind of setup previously too. Perhaps '77 and '78 were this way...but, I'm almost positive '75 and '76 tubes went directly into the heads. Either way, the purpose was to inject cool air into the exhaust port of the exhaust valves to aid in combustion.
One last thing....if you car still has the "original" (not a repro) emission sticker on the valve cover, you might find some reference to a thermactor system here too.
Power Surge
Founding Member
Jon, I'm a little rusty in this info, however I did know the answers for sure back when I was doing my 76. From what I recall, smog pumps were NOT standard issue and many cars did not use them. If your engine sticker on the valve covers lists your car as "catylist", then I'd say with almost 100% certainty that your car had a smog pump. If you have a non-cat car, then you probably didn't have one. I can't recall all the parts off the top of my head, but there were quite a few components that went with that system. I'd be surprised if someone was able to remove all the associated parts without a trace. I can check my original service guides to see what those parts exactly were. I know my 76 didn't have the smog pump setup, although, like you, I started accumulating NOS parts of the system anyway.
Wart said:
Hi Wart, Actually i do not know what a soft plug is. Is it like a rubber plug?
Anyway, I will have to check on Sunday. I still swear that stuff was NOT on my car. I really, really mean that!!
Special thanks to Sleeper, and all of you. The strongest advice that i will follow out of all this was from LXXVICOBRA. If it comes down to it, i will need the proof from the Judges stating it is supposed to be on there. But for now, a collecting I will go.
Thanks Sal for your help, have any parts left????????
Also, if i am to have this stuff, am i supposed to have the tubing on the back of the heads or on the exhaust like the 78's have. Can anyone answer this?
Mstng2
Founding Member
As far as I know my 78 did not come with a smog pump. I was the second owner, the first being a school teacher (female) who kept it in stock form until I bought it in 91. The car was built and shipped/sold in Colorado. It did not have a smog pump nor was there a place for one. No left over brackets, no hoses, no hanging nada. It was a rallye package 302, auto trans. It did have a catylitic converter, and no air tube from it.
Wart...I originally thought a soft plug too was a possibility...but, I'm pretty sure the hole is threaded. My reference material states the original tubes were attached with "banjo nuts". I really don't remember what I did or used, but right now I have two hex bolt heads on the rear of mine, and I guess they are about 3/4 in in size.
Jon, a soft plug is an aluminum (I think) plug without threads that is installed in the sides of your engine block where the water passages are. Ocassionaly, they will blow out under severe overheating/pressure situations, resulting in major coolant loss.
77Sleeper...I don't know of any II's, other than export models, that would have been exempt from using unleaded fuel?
Sal...Pictures of emission control stickers that were affixed to the engine for 1975, show BOTH CA and 49 state (plus Canada) are catalyst systems.
CA version states engine family as: 302 CATALYST EGR/AIR (2CMF)
49 state version as: 302 "A" CATALYST EGR/AIR (1CMF)
Jon, you will need to get info about your '77 system from someone that has service manuals for that year. If 1978 is different from my 1976, perhaps your '77 is as well, but probably matches one of them.
As for the parts required...the components of the "catalytic" system are listed as follows:
Air bypass valve inlet hose,air bypass valve, air bypass valve bracket, vacuum differential valve, air check valve, and check valve inlet hose, air supply pump.
The Non-catalytic Thermactor system requires the following parts:
Air injection manifold (tubing), air supply check valve, air supply pump, check valve inlet hose, air bypass valve, air bypass valve inlet hose, air supply pump muffler.
Jon, a soft plug is an aluminum (I think) plug without threads that is installed in the sides of your engine block where the water passages are. Ocassionaly, they will blow out under severe overheating/pressure situations, resulting in major coolant loss.
77Sleeper...I don't know of any II's, other than export models, that would have been exempt from using unleaded fuel?
Sal...Pictures of emission control stickers that were affixed to the engine for 1975, show BOTH CA and 49 state (plus Canada) are catalyst systems.
CA version states engine family as: 302 CATALYST EGR/AIR (2CMF)
49 state version as: 302 "A" CATALYST EGR/AIR (1CMF)
Jon, you will need to get info about your '77 system from someone that has service manuals for that year. If 1978 is different from my 1976, perhaps your '77 is as well, but probably matches one of them.
As for the parts required...the components of the "catalytic" system are listed as follows:
Air bypass valve inlet hose,air bypass valve, air bypass valve bracket, vacuum differential valve, air check valve, and check valve inlet hose, air supply pump.
The Non-catalytic Thermactor system requires the following parts:
Air injection manifold (tubing), air supply check valve, air supply pump, check valve inlet hose, air bypass valve, air bypass valve inlet hose, air supply pump muffler.
The only 2 '77s that I can vouch for both were air pump equipped.
My white car lost all of it at about 40000 miles.
The wrecked black car I bought a couple years ago had it all. The only thing ever changed on the car was the oil filter. It even still had the D7ZE ink-stamped air cleaner element in it. It was a 302/4 speed car originally shipped to Houston. It all was swapped into the '78, and I presume is still there today.
I realize that this is GM, but I once owned 2 1978 Camaros at the same time. Both 305, both shipped to Iowa. The 4 speed car had no AIR pump, the auto did. So it would seem that certain engine/chassis package combinations might have different emissions systems.
I don't really think the thermactor system has any bearing on AIR pump status, because the thermactor system was designed to reduce emissions through more rapid engine warmup, while the AIR system was geared towards reducing emissions at operating temperature. If I understand it correctly.
Desmogging was all the rage in the mid-late 70's, it is quite possible that it was one of the many that were.
My white car lost all of it at about 40000 miles.
The wrecked black car I bought a couple years ago had it all. The only thing ever changed on the car was the oil filter. It even still had the D7ZE ink-stamped air cleaner element in it. It was a 302/4 speed car originally shipped to Houston. It all was swapped into the '78, and I presume is still there today.
I realize that this is GM, but I once owned 2 1978 Camaros at the same time. Both 305, both shipped to Iowa. The 4 speed car had no AIR pump, the auto did. So it would seem that certain engine/chassis package combinations might have different emissions systems.
I don't really think the thermactor system has any bearing on AIR pump status, because the thermactor system was designed to reduce emissions through more rapid engine warmup, while the AIR system was geared towards reducing emissions at operating temperature. If I understand it correctly.
Desmogging was all the rage in the mid-late 70's, it is quite possible that it was one of the many that were.
THE COBRAMAN said:
Thermacator is the AIR (air injection) system.
Wish I didn't burn up the scanner, the '79 Chilton manual is some interesting reading:
Thermacator: From 1974 on , some models are equiped with an air injection system ....
Converters: Starting in 1975 some Pintos, Bobcats, and Mustang IIs and all California cars , are equiped with catalytic converter units. All 1976 and later models have them. ....
Heat Riser: Starting in 1975 , some engines use ....
EGR: some models, starting 1974, utilize an Exhaust Gas Recirculation ....
They do pick up speed and they are largely uncontrollable.
Definitive
1970impala said:Also, if i am to have this stuff, am i supposed to have the tubing on the back of the heads or on the exhaust like the 78's have. Can anyone answer this?
The external tubing feeding into the exhaust manifolds was an earlier design before the heads were designed for air injection. Starting in 75 the 302 heads had internal air injection ports. So if your II is supposed to have a smog system, it would have the tubing feeding air into the back of each head.
My 1975 2+2 had banjo nuts and aluminum smog pipes coming from the rear of the heads. I don't know where they went, because they had been previously broken-off and crushed shut! If that engine could talk 13 years and 3 rebuilds, 3 Mustang II's later it lives on thirty over in the Mach. I don't think it I will bore it to forty so next rebuild it will be the end of an era
Wart said:
My mistake. For some reason I thought thermactor was the engine air inlet system (hot air tube and all that). Should have checked the manual before posting.
From the '77 shop manual, section 29-03, page 1:
"A Thermactor air injection system is installed on all vehicles"
Unfortunately, seems pretty cut and dried.
