F or B cam for my explorer motor

Discussion in 'Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech' started by stang2841, Oct 31, 2005.


  1. tjm73

    tjm73 Founding Member

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    Well I've cracked a half dozen of these powdered metal pedestals. And yeah they were installed to proper torque specs. They will never be used in another engine of mine againe.
    #41
  2. 18mustangs

    18mustangs New Member

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    Yeah, it's a custom cam for HIS combination, not the P heads! Either way good luck, just remember it's better to research and get what you want the first time instead of settling for what you don't want and end up tearing down your engine more times than you planned on (it gets expensive).
    #42
  3. thumper460

    thumper460 Founding Member

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    And just because the heads stop flowing at .500, the cam shaft can be larger to get the most of that .500 lift!! thus the +500 numbers on cams!! Most of the smaller roller cams are designed with the flow qualities for STOCK HEADS!! True on the cost of the TFS vs the FMS.. the power is SOOOoooo... close between the E and the TFS1 that IF cost is a consideration.. you WONT loose your butt by running the TFS cam, and the After it is in the engine MOST ALL guys cant tell the differance anyway!! Install the E cam in at 106* ICL and it will rock on STOCK Heads!!

    Budget.. there you have it!! the B will allow a little more power than the TFS1 ( just a bit more intake duration..) But the differance in power between any if these three isnt enough to bust balls on??!

    Just me............................

    Thumper
    #43
  4. stang2841

    stang2841 New Member

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    I'm not really trying to **** off anybody just get frustrated with getting a question answered other then what I asked if that makes sense..


    the custom cam was designed for P heads...


    I often get opinions from ppl who do what others do and what they have is the best because they have it.... its a bad cycle and its frustrating..


    l have never heard of the 1.7 crane rockers breaking... that kinda discredited this whole deal.. next time I'll bring it over to hardcore50 with real engine builders rather then a bunch of narrowminded followers.


    not directed towards thumper.
    #44
  5. tjm73

    tjm73 Founding Member

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    You ask a fairly narrow, directed question then claim we're narrow minded followers because, based on what you asked, most of our answers are the same or similar. :scratch: crapola

    See ya later :nice:
    #45
  6. thumper460

    thumper460 Founding Member

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    LOL.... :)

    "Custom cams are... Custom, not shelf cams.. and IF they are Custom, they will be totally to the combo.. car.. trans.. induction.. Head CC runners .. compression.. gears... blah blah... To say that P heads are for custom cams.. is limited at the least!! For 350.00 there are a lot of "custom cam grinders" that will fix you up!! ORRRrr.... the FMS series, or the TFS series will work KILLER!! Being. stock heads.. ported heads... GT40 heads... ect!! blah.. blah.. ( you wont, however, pull the full bennifit of the cam, unless other things are changed.. fuel/intake/ ect..)

    Rockers breaking?? the ONLY ones I have seen break are the Cheap Pro-fams!! the rollers come out/off/ !!

    "YES.. I installed this grind cam and the car flys!!" Or " I have changed to this intake and cam and the car flys" BUT.. who knows IF the car could be faster with different combo of cams.. intakes.. rockers...??? After a guy spends 350.00 on a "custom cam" 1500.00 on Alum heads and the assoc stuff to go with them, 500.00 on an intake.. ect, you bet he is going to say his IS the best combo " for him" !! Cool?? But there are a lot of FMS cammed, ported Stock heads and cheap intakes cars that are spanking the $$ !! And it is such a killer high when you open the hood and let the "Other Guy" see all Ford parts in the engine compartment!! dontcha think?? Gotta love Drag racing!! LOL

    Just me..........................

    Thumper
    #46
  7. 5.0ina66

    5.0ina66 Member

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    :stupid:
    And I will add, I am not a so called "follower"...my decision on the TFS#1 is based on 9 months of testing all the OTS cams I could on my 5.0 combo, as well as other common and/or similar 5.0 builds. And BTW, thumper speaks the truth...the custom cam is custom FOR THAT CAR, gears, trans, trans ratios, slick size, wieght and ect. ect. are all factored in to the cam ground FOR THAT car. 99.9% chance it will NEVER work as well on YOUR CAR. Good luck! :rolleyes:
    You, Sir,Mr Original Poster, are an opinionated aasshat.:nice:
    #47
  8. tjm73

    tjm73 Founding Member

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    I think he was referring to my rash of cracked Crane Cobra powdered metal pedestals. Not the rockers themselves. :shrug:
    #48
  9. stang2841

    stang2841 New Member

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    it was a narrow question asking which is better...


    F or B for this particular head.


    I got neither and the got the typical "TFS1" my buddy has.. blah blah.. TFS1 is a new grind.. blah blah blah FMS cams are 20 years old blah blah blah I spent almost 2500 in my engine and I'm running 13's still blah blah. TFS1 has better duration :rlaugh:

    I guarantee most of these posters are going with the flow and have no real life experiences with these.. just what they heard on the internet.. Internet mechanics..


    I ask a question between 2 cam then get referred a cam .. that I know I do not want ... then get told storys of how great it is.. even though its the only cam they've ever used and its what everybody else is doing/using. That is why I am frustrated..


    say I'm immature.. a know it all blah blah to young to understand yadda yadda ya


    but I've owned 2 cars that are probably faster then just about anybody in this thread.. probably the only person whos really BUILT a car too..

    I got timeslips, receipts, ppl I have raced.. pictures of myself/cars if there is any non believers.. this thread is why I have not been on this site the past year..

    I dont know off the top of my head but I believe the TFS cam is like 218/222 and .49x/.51x plainly I dont see it having enough duration to make the power I want off of these heads.. and it is a bit to mild for my powergoals and what I want to do with the car.. so there ya go.. that is my reasoning for not getting the TFS cam or wanting it. My buddy has it on his stock headed car with just a performer RPM intake and rockers and ran a 12.8 @ 106.. faster then some ppl over here at stangnet with 2k+ set ups ;-) so I know it can make power.

    TFS made the cam more with stockheads and there specific TW heads more then anything. GT40ps vary from stock heads and TW heads very much to say the least.. check out the flowcharts on a stock gt40p heads and you will see what I mean with the .500 lift.. anything over a .50x is waste with heavier valvesprings and more wear/tear on everything. The extra duration is to make up for the lack of flow and to gain a few up top...

    another real life example.. a motor I put THIS CUSTOM CAM into made 311rwhp on this cam with a performer RPM intake and bone stock GT40ps with the gt40p shortys.. not longtubes.. and I would say from how it did on the street would trap 110+ easy.. with some power left in it... (blowmasters, accesorys, pulleys,)


    I had the B and F in mind due to its close to .500 lift and over .223 duration on both sides..


    must I explain myself more?
    #49
  10. tjm73

    tjm73 Founding Member

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    Well, I brought up the TF1 for 2 reasons. First, the timing events are nearly identical to the B303 (which I have) that you asked about. Since it's almost the same cam, it'll have very similar traits. Second, the TF1 is consitently cheaper than the B303 and you said you were on a budget.

    Basically the same cam and less money. :shrug: I don't understand why you have dismissed it when it clearly meets your expressed wants. :shrug: Did you look at the timing events for both the the cams? I'm not trying to be a pain in your assssss about this. Just offering a very viable option that meets your goal of doing a budget build motor. :shrug:
    #50
  11. nosmatt

    nosmatt Founding Member

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    alotta flaming it seems.........


    anyway,
    your running long tubes, and a decent exhuast lets assume.

    out of the two cams you mentioned, and the two others thrown in that were not asked for, well./.. imho, mill those heads 30 thou.

    install the f cam. degree it in at a 107 icl.

    pass all the guys with the exact same combo running the ultracrap tfs cam.



    are there better cams, duh! of course!!!!!!!!

    of the ones being argued about, this is what i would do.
    #51
  12. nosmatt

    nosmatt Founding Member

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    R O F L




    this is wrong about 10 times over....mr thirteen five..........
    #52
  13. stang2841

    stang2841 New Member

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    this 13.5 is on my 3rd car..


    I used to own a 98 T/A M6... trapped at 113 w/bolt ons

    had a h/c/i T-5 fox throwing down 322rwhp off the sauce.. that was a bone stock AOD when I had it..

    talked to soon/


    I wasnt going to mill the heads before when I was debating F/B cams but given the size of this custom cam I will probably end up freshening up/millin them a tiny bit.. I dont know about 30thou though... probably a bit more :rolleyes: and flycut the exploder pistons a bit.







    EDIT: GO TO POST ON BOTTOM OF 2ND PAGE TO HEAR THE REASONSING BEHIND EVERYTHING
    #53
  14. nosmatt

    nosmatt Founding Member

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    OK, AND SINCE THE TFS ONE, AND THE B303 ARE ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME..SPLAIN THIS??



    b303:
    ADV DURATION @ .006" 284*
    IVO/EVO 5*btdc/39*atdc
    EVO/EVC 49*bbdc/5*btdc

    ZERO overlap



    TFS-1 cam:
    ADV DURATION 275 intake/279 exhaust @.006"
    IVO/EVO 3*BTDC/ 38* ABDC

    EVO/EVC 49* BBDC/ 4* degrees BTDC

    1 DEGREE OF OVERLAP

    now granted, as far as the events are concerned, they are fairly close. but 9* more seat duration on the intake, and less lift, the ramp rates on the b cam are far less aggressive.

    also need to take into consideration the quality of the cam cores being used. if your getting a hydro roller new for 140 bux, it's made from crap material, plain and simple!
    #54
  15. stang2841

    stang2841 New Member

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    btw... thank you nosmatt ... I thought I was losing my mind for a little bit with the B and TFS1 comment.


    seems this site goes with the "what I have is the best because I have it" and the "this cam is popular so it is obviously better" rules.
    #55
  16. nosmatt

    nosmatt Founding Member

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    bfd, i have had 15 stangs........15.
    the last 89 ran 17lbs of boost, with what most here would call stage three or four tw heads (300 @ .600, and 200 @ .600ex), c4, 4500 stall, 4.10's.....as for trapping.......start thinkin low 120's

    i could go on for hours about other cars.........i wont bore all of ya.

    anyway, does not really matter. you came asking for opinions, and i gave you an honest one, out of the cams being argued, and how to make it work best..............and more than 30 thou, you need shorter pushrods, and to align mill the intake to fit the heads, and all this costs money.


    good luck to ya.
    #56
  17. nosmatt

    nosmatt Founding Member

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    not a problem. i hope i did not light anyones drawers on fire, thats not the intent. i just try to keep my long winded posts real short, and i come off as rude.

    anyhoo, last time....good luck!
    #57
  18. STANGateURlilSS

    STANGateURlilSS Founding Member

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    the only reason to go E woudl be to keep smog.. in cali.. but if you going all out power.. none of the 303 cams are where you will find power.. i know the original post was between the b or f.. but then others offered there ideas of a better designed cam.. that works so much better the any of the 303 cams.. i go agree whent he 303 cams cam out they were alot better then the stock ho cam.. but today they are crap.. the tfs1 cam is alot better of a cam for that combo.. imo..
    :SNSign: ford 303 camscrapola
    #58
  19. 18mustangs

    18mustangs New Member

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    No the custom cam was designed for the guy’s total combination and not just the heads (contrary to what he probably told you in order to convince you to buy the cam from him). A custom cam designer takes the toal engine package, the owner’s power production goals, driveability, streetability goals and so on when designing a cam shaft, not just what set of heads he is or wants to run.

    It’s called experience. In case you missed the sig, I run one of the cams you’re dead set on running, the B303, and I’ve had experience with my brother’s TFS stage 1 cam and have known a lot of people running F cams.

    :ZipIt: You’ll get the same reception there as here is you disregard good advice and act like you know everything. And judging from your post count you didn’t have any issues with the information on Stangnet until it conflicted with what you thought you knew.
    #59
  20. stang2841

    stang2841 New Member

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    nobody talked me into buying the cam.. I know how a custom cam is made.. probably more so then you do.


    just forget it.. I went through an elaborate reasoning of why I did not WANT a TFS1 cam.. then explained that the cam is made for the heads that are on YOUR CAR and how it is better suited for them.


    but forget it
    #60

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