Discussion in '2010 - 2014 Specific Tech' started by red05bullitgt, Jan 22, 2009.
did it have the 3:73's?
yes i think it did have 3:73's dosent the 05 run 0 to 60 in 5.4seconds i dont know but motortrend liked it
didnt the 99-04 run 5.4s?
When I was buying the 07 GT, I recall a Ford advertisement that said it ran 0-60 in 4.9 seconds based on a magazine test for a MY05 S197 GT.
If the 2010 GT w/ 3.73s only runs 4.9, I'm not that terribly impressed. I'd stick with the 3.31s for better fuel economy instead.
If it was an 05 GT that ran 0-60 in 4.9 seconds, then it was more than likely with 3:55's.. As all 2005-06 GT models with 5 speed manual trans. Were equipped with 3:55's as standard gears..
While those with Auto trans, were equipped with 3:31's as standard !
Wow! I am really excited about the direction Ford is heading. We have the improved 2010 Mustang that is going to only get better in 2011 with the coyote and twin turbo v6. I have had two twin turbo sixes (a Mitsu 3000GT VR-4 and an Audi A6 2.7T). From experience, these engines are a tuner's delight. Increasing the boost really adds big power, but with that comes the huge expense of replacing fried turbos. You have to either have deep pockets or some restraint on how much you mod and abuse these cars. The Taurus SHO will be popular as well. I like the Coyote! It sounds like Ford is stepping up to the plate to give the Mustang faithful a nice engine to take us into the next era of Ford vs. Chevy vs. Mopar.
I have to chuckle a bit at those of you whining about the inevitable price bump with the new powertrain. Come on! With all you spend on mods??? I'd rather spend a bit more up front for a killer engine. 2011 is looking good! (BTW- that puts me on pace for a new mustang every 10 years ).
Mazda has a lot of trouble keeping their turbos in the Mazdaspeed3 working properly. I read about a lot of seal failures early on (like right out of the showroom) causing black smoke to billow out of the exhaust. There's also issues with the motor/trans mounts giving away causing the motor/transaxle to fall out of place.
I don't trust Ford to deliver a high quality twin-turbo package. The initial quality may be great but I'm sure we're going to hear about major problems for the first 3-4 MY's of EcoBoost engines. Given that Ford can leave problems unresolved in 3-4MY's of the S197 (2005-2008) with small stuff like the gas tank and SJB, I don't have enough faith in them that the EcoBoost will be problem free. I'm sure we're going to hear about boost/vacuum leaks, headgasket failures, and a myriad of other things.
The new name of the game is 35 MPG average. It is unlikely they will keep pumping out cars like the GT500. I'm disappointed in the lack of powertrain changes for 2010 in the Mustang but I am not surprised given Ford is running out of money.
if its the turbo that is going bad that is due to poor manufacturing from the company supplying the turbos. ford doesn't build the turbos, and if a turbo seal goes bad it will billow white smoke from the oil being burnt not black.
i dont see why the quality wont be up to par in the turbo engine, we dont see people running around here with a bunch of issues with their roots blown cobras and GT500's.
the quality issues you will hear about are going to come from 2 groups of people- the ones who mod the hell out of the cars and then complain about stuff breaking when they are pushing big power and driving with a lead foot 24/7 and the other group who will buy a car and never have any routine maint. done and then they will call the cars crap because something that was supposed to be changed at 30k wasnt and now has failed at 60k.
I got the info from owners of stock vehicles. There are even reports of bad turbos right off the showroom floor. 2007-2009 Subaru WRX's are also blowing engines straight off the showroom floor. Subaru issued a stop sale in early 2008 but they stopped doing it for 2009 and there are many issues related to the engines. Transmissions are also going south on the 2008-2009 WRX/STIs.
Excessive fuel /rich conditions produce black smoke but burning engine oil typically produces a blue smoke, not white. Burning coolant/anti-freeze will result in white smoke.
Roots blowers have been a proven device and are often used by OEMs for over 40 years. From engines that propel insurgent killing machines to Grand Prix GTPs and Bonneville SSEi's, it's not just Ford using the Eaton. The bugs have been worked out by now and in almost every environment imaginable.
High performance turbocharged engines OTOH, aren't as common. Ford rarely gets anything right especially with parts sourced from their suppliers. Recall the 1998-2002 intake manifold fiasco that was resolved with a class action lawsuit (Supplier part defect).
Also be aware that the EcoBoost won't be cheap. The first EcoBoost equipped car is the 2010 Taurus SHO. With a starting price of $38k, that's essentially the price of a fully loaded 2010 Premium Mustang GT or within a few grand of a GT500. The EcoBoost V6 produces 365 hp but with the same or lower fuel economy than a V8. I get 25-27 MPG on the highway in my 07 GT and I'm sure I can muster 30 MPG with 2.73s instead of the stock 3.55s.
Also be aware that the turbos only carry a 10 year / 150k mile lifespan rating and the chances of a dealer voiding your warranty for "overdriving" the engine are quite high. The other major concern is transmission/clutch life that would probably not have warranty coverage if the dealer thinks the car was "overdriven"
Bottom line is I'd give Ford about 2-3 model years to fix the bugs from the turbocharged GDI engines assuming the company lasts that long. I'd be interested in an EcoBoost 4-banger for a C1 Focus w/ a manual gearbox but that's not likely to happen since the average buyer wants a rearview camera and their XM/Siirius.
Apples to Oranges. The Eaton blower is the staple of forced induction reliability for the industry. They may not knock out the horsepower figures that some of the others do, but that’s only because they were designed to meet strict reliability and noise requirements put forth by the OEM. The Eaton was designed with longevity in mind right from the get go.
the only advantage eaton blowers have is this: less stuff to go wrong. boost leaks aren't ever a problem and a coupler wont ever blow off.
two problems that won't occur in an oem format. okay, ten years down theline with 150 miles on the car, fine, but who the hell buys a car like this to put that many miles on it? furthermore turbo cars are soooooooooooooo much easier to upgrade and efficient than supercharged variants. the trade off is they are slightly more complicated as they depend on pressure equalization to maintain desired boost levels.
eaton blowers were cheaper to manufacture and install, again due to less parts overall.
There are no boost leaks because Eaton’s, unlike Turbo's or Twin Screw aren't compressors. They're basically glorified air pumps. All of the compression takes place in the manifold, after the blower.
Therefore, they aren't subject to seals being blown out because of excess pressure, or damage or deterioration because of excess heat or RPM. The only real way to damage an Eaton is to dramatically over spin it, which in turn creates excessive wear.
You gotta remember...an Eaton M112 spins somewhere in the 10,000-16,000RPM range (at the highest), where a Turbo will generally spin in the 40,000-80,000RPM range and even as high as 140,000RPM depending on the application. Even with a continuous supply of fresh oil, turbo's are more subject to wear than an Eaton.
Hell, I know guys with 200,000K on their Super Coupes that have NEVER changed their supercharger oil. You'll never see a Turbo hold up to that kind of neglect.
i dont disagree that they are having issues, but trust me oil being burned at 1550 degrees comes out white, blew the seals in a turbo eclipse i had a while back and it fogs the road out
know how much a turbo rebuild costs? a few hundred bucks. everyone knows blowers are more durable and to the guy that maintains his car properly... it doesn't matter all that much.
are you planning a 200k mile endurance race? blowers are cool, they have their purpose. turbos are cool too, they have their purpose. one is better for certain things than the other and vice versa.
blowers are more efficient than the best supercharger, the trade off is they are more complex and require a tiny tiny bit more care.
I get the impression that you think because turbo’s make more power, they’re the obvious choice, but if that were the case, why would anyone still bother with blowers.
Cool, I'll keep that in mind when you've had to remove, disassemble and rebuild your turbo 3-times before my Eaton even starts to show the first sign of wear.
Endurance race....no, but I know I can bolt my Eaton on and have it outlast the rest of the car....you can't really guarantee the same for a turbo. You're absolutely right though...they've each got their purpose as well as their high points and draw backs.
I think you meant to say turbo's, but either way....its not all about efficiency. Turbo's may consume the least horsepower to run, and make more power in the mid and upper ranges, but that's not to say they the most efficient, or move the most air at all RPM. A turbo, no matter how it’s sized or configured hasn't got a prayer against a positive displacement blower in the lower regions of the power curve.
If you think the need to constantly monitor oil lines, oil pumps, seals, fittings, couplers, exhaust leaks and on top of that the need to remove, disassemble and rebuild them every few years is only a “tiny, tiny bit more care” and no "big woop", then I'm happy for you.
Myself, I'll remain content with making simple, repeatable, consistent, maintenance free power for years to come. Making a little less power is a welcome trade off to the headaches and maintenance of staying on top of a turbo for the next several years.
they wouldn't, which is why i didn't say that.
which is probably why funny cars and rail dragsters usually run blowers.
you don't... unless its a crappy turbo setup or you've been really stupid with it.
cool, have fun with that.
The turbos that are used in extreme environments and have to last for a long time aren't pushed very hard. Think max boost of 5 psi.
i just think its hilarious that the mentallity of "superchargers are more durable" is pretty ironic seeing as how waaaaaaaaaaaay more production vehicles are equipped with turbochargers than superchargers.
And many of them suffer reliability issues unless the boost is limited to a pitiful level.
really? 7-20ishlbs is pitiful?