help asap - repairs

Discussion in '2.3L (N/A & Turbo) Tech' started by meltmanbob, Jun 17, 2009.


  1. meltmanbob

    meltmanbob Member

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    hey guys i have a lot to ask and very very little time to get done as much as i can to my car. it's a 90 stang 4cyl hatch manual and it means a lot to me. i'll try to keep this short but bear with me.

    major repairs - replace clutch, fix or replace rear axle
    minor repairs - get new lock on driver door, fix power windows, mirrors, and locks, get a/c working, possibly replace passenger door (severe rust), fix sagging driver door.

    here's the deal, i have a driveway to use for major repairs but only till this friday. i need to get as much done as possible before i drive from california to mississippi.

    the car - can't park on inclines because the clutch slips and the e brake disengages randomly hence the clutch replacement and rear end. the car was broken into hence the need for a new lock. those are the most important things.

    me - i know a bit about what i'm asking, i've researched this stuff before but i don't remember everything and i barely have time to do the work let alone figure everything out. right now i'm in a low point in my life, lost my job, truck was repossessed, have no place to live in california anymore and have very little money to get the car working so i can get to my dads and try to get on my feet.

    i'm not asking for anyone to hold my hand, if i needed that then i have no business doing these repairs. i'm asking for pointers and guidance, just things that will save me some time so i can focus more on doing the work.

    example - tell me what clutch kits are worth getting, tell me little tips or tricks. i'm very capable and i can do all these repairs without help but it would take me a lot longer completely on my own so all i'm asking for is the info that will take a lot of the guess work or trial and error out of these repairs. i hope that makes sense and doesn't come across the wrong way.

    thanks in advance for any help from anyone that can find it in them to go the extra mile and help me.

    right now the immediate things that would be helpful are:
    clutch kit recommendations
    good places to buy these parts for any of these repairs
    inexpensive alternatives for parts, procedures etc.
    approximately how much i should be paying for any of this stuff so i have an idea to figure out if i'm getting a good deal or not.
     
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  2. slayr281

    slayr281 The poster formerly known as slayr420 Founding Member

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    hello from sunny san diego :nice:

    if you're on a limited budget, as far as a clutch goes, it's hard to go wrong with a very cost effective Fidanza disc or king cobra clutch disc, assuming your clutch cable, pressure plate and throwout bearing are fine. give us a ring and we'll see what we can do to help you along :)
     
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  3. robbo1987*2.3*

    robbo1987*2.3* Founding Member

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    hey hey

    if you have just a stock 4 banger then the advance auto clutch kit will do just fine.
    you can swap the rear byyourself but ios much easier with a helping hand

    the clutch doesnt slip when your car is parked on an incline they can only slip when driving underpower

    what is happening is that the weight of the car is making the motor turn over when you park it on an incline and try to use the gears as a parking break

    i could b wrong but im pretty sure on that

    as far as the other stuff its fairly straight foward


    good luck man just try and make some lemonaid with the lemons life has given you lata

    robbo
     
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  4. meltmanbob

    meltmanbob Member

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    slayr - where is the best most common place to buy those clutch's?

    robbo - same question

    so far you guys have recommended 3, would you guys be in agreement that one of those 3 would be the better choice? i have no idea what condition my pressure plate, throw out bearing etc are in but i was planning on getting a clutch kit that would replace all of that. what would be a good estimation of how much i should spend on just a clutch should cost and also how much a kit should cost.

    i talked to a mechanic today who told me that if i ever go with the turbo swap i will have to replace the clutch etc because they are not transferable. if this is the case i would like to stay as inexpensive as possible. the stock clutch etc has lasted almost 20 years so i figure a stock replacement or something very close will get me at least another 5 years which is perfect for me.

    the rear axle is being more difficult than i would like but i knew that going into this. no luck on the TC rear so at this point i would have to piece it together.

    what pieces would have to get from what vehicles in order to get the 8.8 rear with discs? from what i understand an 8.8 rear from a TC or 5.0/gt or sn95 94-98 will work, at least the axle housing. then if i am correct i would need the axles from at TC or fox stang with an 8.8 that way i can use my current stock wheels and tires since i can't afford to replace them at the moment plus they have brand new tires on. next if i want discs i would need the disc apparatus from the TC otherwise i would need different wheels and tires.

    so, since i can't find the TC rear can i accomplish the same thing with any of the above mentioned rear axle housings with the axles from a TC or 8.8 rear fox? the thing i'm least sure about is if i get the axle housing from an 8.8 fox or sn95 can i bolt the disc brake parts from a TC onto the housing? once i figure out for sure how to piece it together then i will start price checking to see if it is a repair i can do now or if i should wait for a TC rear and i do expect piecing it together to be a bit more expensive since i will probably have to purchase some of the parts (disc brake apparatus) brand new/aftermarket.

    thanks again guys i really appreciate taking out some of the guess work!!:nice::nice:
     
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  5. Red_LX

    Red_LX I’m not much help unless you’re looking for porn! Mod Dude Founding Member

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    OK #1, did you not ask me about clutch kits a month or two ago and I recommended you just pick up a clutch kit from the parts store? And I told you that it will cost around $100.

    #2, you will HAVE to get the flywheel turned. Expect to spend around $40 on that.

    #3, if the e-brake is not working properly...look at your rear brakes and look at the e-brake cables. Something needs replaced between those two (probably the cables, but something could be screwed up with the adjuster on the shoes). It would be a hell of a lot easier than trying to swap to rear disc in 3 days.
     
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  6. slayr281

    slayr281 The poster formerly known as slayr420 Founding Member

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    Actually, I'm pretty much with Garrett on both the e-brake and clutch. You could just go to a Napa/Kragen/Autozone and grab a clutch kit, if you're paying more than $150, you're overpaying.

    Another option to you is that you could also try hitting up Ecology junk yards, the best one is in Chula Vista. Depending on when you go, they are usually loaded suitable donor cars, if not a bunch of foxes, you'll find t-birds and the like. If you've got some tools and friends, you could go down and look for some cars to tear into.
     
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  7. meltmanbob

    meltmanbob Member

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    !!!!!!!!!!!! - TC rear FOUND

    ok guys my friends mechanic just called me and told me he found an 87 TC at the junkyard with the rear still on there.

    what all do i need to grab from the TC for the rear swap? obviously the rear axle housing and everything attached to it but what about things like the e brake and the brake lines.

    also it's coming from an automatic so i'm guessing that means the gears in the rear are going to be higher (larger number like 3.73 instead of 3.55) is this correct?

    red - yea we did talk and i apologize for not remembering everything you told me 100%, i just wanted to double check again since i am very short on time but yes i did recall being told by not just you that a stock replacement from the auto store would work which is why i mentioned the NAPA kit since i was told that NAPA had the best deal/kit compared to say pep boys or auto zone etc. you said i would have to get the flywheel turned which should cost about $40, thats definitely doable and i'm sure i've asked before but is it better to just pay the $40 to get it turned than to buy a new one? approx how long should it take from me handing the flywheel over till it would be ready to hand back to me?

    when i had the tires put on the car a while ago they told me that at least one of my rear brakes was frozen closed.

    anyway i know it's a lot of work to do but thankfully my friends mechanic is pulling through for me so i should have some good help and guidance but i still want your guy's oppinions since you guys prolly know certain things for these cars that he doesn't.

    as for the clutch the mechanic found me some heavy duty one but it was 200 and i told him that was a bit more than i wanted to spend especially if that is something i will have to replace when/if i do the turbo swap.


    thanks a bunch guys i really appreciate it!! red i'm sorry if it looks like i didn't listen to what you've told me, it's not that, i just want to make sure one last time since i'm going to try and do as much of this as possible with very little time. also i wanted to let you guys know that i know this is a lot of work especially for someone like me but i'm probably going to have the mechanic help me or do most of it for me and i'll just be the extra set of hands since he would know what he's doing and can do it faster.
     
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  8. meltmanbob

    meltmanbob Member

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    TC rear update

    ok so here's the deal, i have 3 days left to do the work. my friends mechanic said he will help me all day tomorrow to do the rear end swap but he doesn't want to waste his time meaning i need to have all the steps down, all the parts ready etc so that he and i know we can complete it from start to finish.

    so if you guys can double check any info i gather on the swap that would be great. i am going off of the upgrade page in the sticky tech articles 87-93 Mustang 5.0 Brake upgrade pages. Improve your 60-0 times!

    is the parts list and procedures on that web site 100% complete? where is the best place to order the ford motor sport parts that are on the list, we have a summit racing in san diego so i will prolly check there but again any pointers are welcome.

    thanks again guys for helping!!!!
     
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  9. Red_LX

    Red_LX I’m not much help unless you’re looking for porn! Mod Dude Founding Member

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    The only place I can think of that you might run into problems swapping the TC rear is with the brake lines, but a little extra hardline or some bending of the existing line should fix that.

    As far as what to grab...just get everything attached to the axle except for the shocks, control arms, and driveshaft. You will need the e-brake cables but you'll have some extra length on them to deal with.

    Also the rear will be a 3.73 if it's from an auto car.

    And, you would have to find a shop that turns flywheels (I think most places that turn brakes can also turn flywheels) and ask them what they charge and how long it takes. If it's close to the same price for a new flywheel, you might be as well off to just buy the new one.
     
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  10. j and v

    j and v Member

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    #1) Resist the urge to cut the rubber brake line at the rear end that connects the axle hardlines to the body mounted hardline. They are not available new anymore. You'll also need a 7/16 to 3/8 brass adapter to mate the TC rubber line to you hardline on the body.
    #2) TC style calipers are known for having finicky e-brake setups. The internal parts like to freeze when they get old. You really need to test the calipers before you pull the rear at the yard. If the e-brake sticks, walk away and let it go. Rebuilt calipers are VERY pricey, and it doesn't sound like you'll have the time to rebuild them yourself.
    #3) To use the TC rear with the e-brake setup you'll need new e-brake cables. Figure about $30 to $40 each.
     
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  11. meltmanbob

    meltmanbob Member

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    j and v - you're saying that i should take the rubber brake lines fully intact and i'm assuming you're suggesting to modify my stang hard lines to accommodate the TC rubber lines?

    is there an easy way to test the calipers? obviously if it's still a complete system i could just pull the e brake then put it down and check to see if the calipers are stuck like it's on but what if pieces are missing from the TC?

    why would i need new e brake cables? in red's post he said to grab the (i'm assuming) TC e brake cables but it would be a bit long and i'm assuming it's not too hard to shorten them. please correct me if i'm wrong.

    red - along with everything attached minus what you said specifically do you know if i should just follow that thread i linked in terms of the brake stuff like MC, prop valve etc?

    i'm sure i can get the flywheel redone but a new one here is about $75 so i'm not sure what i'll do yet. if i can pull this off tomorrow i can buy the rear for 235+tax and pay 25 to have them pull it for me while i stand by and tell them what specifically to take off and make sure they don't cut/damage things.

    if that thread i linked is good to follow can you guys recommend a good place to get FMS parts since that thread has a few on the parts list.

    thanks again guys!! hopefully i can pull this off but i just got done spending 4 hours replacing the ignition cylinder on my brothers bmw... thank god my car isn't that difficult. somehow it required a sawzall with special blades and using large channel locks while using a thick 3" C clamp to tighten the handles on the channel locks...
     
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  12. meltmanbob

    meltmanbob Member

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    this info was pulled from the site i linked, sorry i kept referring to it as a thread.
    Rear Disc Parts list:

    4 Lug 93 Cobra/Turbo Coupe setup with Cobra/TC axles

    * 2 x 10" 4 lug vented rotors
    * 2 x rear calipers
    * 2 x rear caliper brackets
    * 2 x Axles (They are 3/4" wider than the stock '87-93 units).
    * 2 x soft brake lines (93 cobra/87-88 TC/94-95 V6 Mustang all work)
    * (2)FMS M-2809-A ebrake cables for '87-92 cars, '93 Cobra units for '93 year cars
    * (1) FMS M-2810-A center Ebrake cable
    * FMS M2450-A proportioning valve solid end cap
    * Adjustable proportioning valve
    * new 2 port 4 wheel disc master cylinder (1" bore)
    * 3-2 port master cylinder conversion. Click here to Order
    * 2 x adapter fittings to use the stock drum brake hardline with the softlines - Click here to Order



    ok so it looks like if i get that TC rear i can get the first 5 items crossed off the list. i'm going to check at summit tomorrow for the FMS parts so hopefully that takes care of the next 3 items.

    first off does that list seem complete?

    second - does anyone have an alternative to ordering the 3-2 conversion? i don't think that will be an option considering time unless i can find another place to work on the car for longer.

    third - same thing for the adapter fittings

    for the moment i have some time to research so i am and i will be looking for answers to my own questions posted. i just have to have this down step by step and all the parts as best i can before i can get that mechanic to help me.
     
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  13. n8rsk8r

    n8rsk8r New Member

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    junkyard is your friend. Rears go for little to $125.00 and EXTREMELY easy to swap out, make sure you get one from a manual otherwise the gearing will be different oh and the 7.5" rear.. And clutches can be got there too.. not the actual clutch, but flywheels would be okay to get from the salvage yard.
     
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  14. Red_LX

    Red_LX I’m not much help unless you’re looking for porn! Mod Dude Founding Member

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    If you don't have time to do the master cylinder swap, I wouldn't recommend doing the rear disc swap. I just don't think your brakes will work properly if you don't. The stock master cylinder is marginal at best, and will be pretty bad with the addition of rear disc (calipers take a lot more fluid to move the piston than a drum brake cylinder does)

    Honestly...as tight of a schedule as you claim to be on, I don't really understand why you aren't just doing the minimum you need to do to get the car driveable.

    BTW unless you have a local dealership/establishment that sells motorsport parts, that stuff usually has to be mail ordered.
     
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  15. meltmanbob

    meltmanbob Member

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    yea unfortunately i dont think i'll get to do the rear end swap today but i am still trying to find another place to work on my car. hopefully i can find someones house that will give me a few days which would give me some more time to figure out all the details.

    i emailed stinger cause i saw on his web site that he was coming up with a cheaper alternative for the ebrake part of the swap and this is what he said:

    "The cheap/easy way to deal with the ebrake cables is to just buy a few cable locks (look like little miniature u bolts with two nuts) that allow you to clamp the two ebrake cables together (mustang front and tc rear cables)."

    also this

    "No clue on the cost, you don't "have to" do the prop valve, master cylinder, etc. Just the brake lines. Then it will "work" but just not work quite as good as it would with the proper master and prop."

    so if this is the case then what i could is swap the rear and do the master cylinder stuff at my nanas. well i gotta get back to moving and figuring out these details. thanks again guys!
     
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  16. meltmanbob

    meltmanbob Member

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    progress

    ok so far here's what i have done to it in the past couple weeks and today:

    flushed radiator x2 with new fluid and a flushing agent

    changed oil x2, still need to change it once more and put the new filter on

    changed fuel filter today

    new autolite plugs gapped to .044 - done today

    new wires - lifetime warranty from napa, inexpensive $35 but i think they gave me an upgrade because they were supposed to be the 7mm and these are 8mm. they are not custom wires in terms of length, they were all within 1.5" of each other and something odd to me was that one of the boots was longer than the rest.

    new fram air filter

    .... sorry went out to start the car and wahoo not only did it just take a couple try's after a completely dead battery but i was able to shut it off and start it right back up on the first try which it wouldn't do before. also it would die after about 5 min of running and so far it's been on for about 20. i'll report back when i get some more done, next is the clutch hopefully.
     
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  17. meltmanbob

    meltmanbob Member

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    off topic - clutch

    i didn't want to start another thread cause i already have one about my clutch situation.

    here's the thing, getting the stock flywheel resurfaced (correct term??) is about $40 and a new one is about $75 but from what i can find on the net, mostly at 4m.net (something like that) they are saying that a flywheel from an 80's escort gt 1.9l will bolt right up and is about 5lbs lighter.

    i'm considering this because from what i've read you just need the escort flywheel and bolts and a couple thick washers since the flywheel is just slightly thinner but the catch is i can get a brand new one for about $50.

    anyway i just wanted to put that out there in case any one has some additional info. i'll edit this post in a moment and add a link to the thread i started on the clutch topic in case anyone wants to check it out.

    edit - here is a link to all threads started by me, the second one on the list is about the clutch and has info on the escort flywheel from the last time i started researching.

    http://forums.stangnet.com/search.php?searchid=2760636

    if that doesn't work let me know and i can post the individual link. i put the link on here that i did more for my own easy reference from now on.
     
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  18. meltmanbob

    meltmanbob Member

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    well the car runs, finally took it for a test drive and it runs pretty much how i remember. had to replace the plugs i put in yesterday because i checked them and they were pretty fouled up for only being run for about 40 min. so i went back to napa and a couple other places and finally settled on getting the next hottest plug the 2546 autolites instead of the 2545. seems to have helped and taking it out on the road a bit seemed to help a lot.

    the check engine light is still on but it doesn't always stay on so i'm guessing that it's an intermittent code. i used my analog multimeter to try and get the codes and if i did it correctly it read 33 then 77 then 33 then 77 again. i don't remember exactly what the codes were but i think one was something to do with the egr not closing fully and the other had to do with the bp/map sensor being out of range.

    anyway i still haven't been able to even start on the clutch or rear thanks to spending my time trying to help everyone get moved out of the house but i do have temp tags and got the insurance on it tonight so i can drive it legally. i'll be moving it to my grandma's for the next couple weeks and i'm trying to get another place to work on the car.
     
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  19. meltmanbob

    meltmanbob Member

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    TC rear axle

    hey guys i had them pull the axle but i wanted to see if you guys had anything specific i should check. i know JandV said to check the brakes, the guy who pulled it said they work good and the ebrake was fine but i don't want to take his word for it so is there a way for me to check those things since it's off the car?

    the guy who pulled it showed me the softlines, i specifically asked him to disconnect them from the body hard lines instead of cutting them and it looks like he did what i asked. i have to pick it up tomorrow since it was closing time but he still needs to grab the ebrake cables for me.

    also i'm dropping the tranny tonight and going to take the flywheel in tomorrow and hopefully wrap those 2 projects up by tomorrow night. fortunately my nana said i could do the work at her apartment even though i'm not supposed to, she said the managers won't be in till tuesday!! thanks again guys!
     
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  20. meltmanbob

    meltmanbob Member

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    update on rear swap

    ok so it's been slow going. i had to completely take apart the drums to release the ebrake cables and i have 3 out of the 4 drive shaft bolts out. i had to go get a bolt extractor cause the last bolt is stripped.

    the starter is also removed for the clutch swap but that's for after the axle swap.

    i know it's not much, i've had a lot going on. i'll post more results as they come.
     
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