I need a good radar detector

Discussion in 'SVT Tech Forum' started by 1slicksnake, Jun 24, 2004.


  1. 1slicksnake

    1slicksnake New Member

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    I need a really good radar detector. I live in Virginia so i also need one that is completely undetectable. I have been leaning towards the escort pasport 8500 x50. i was wondering if some of you that have these really nice radar detectors could give me some feedback on them. thank you very much.
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  2. droptopsnake01

    droptopsnake01 New Member

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    Valentine One. Hands Down the best! Nothing more for me to explain. Check it out for yourself.
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  3. The Factor

    The Factor New Member

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    Valentine,is a kick a.. radar detector.But for about a 100 dollars less you can have a 8500 passport,I have the last years model and it works great plus you can run a laser type jammer made by passport "if its legal in your state.Its never let me down and has saved me alot of tickets knock on would :bang: ......the only thing thats i like a little more about the valentine is that it will tell you were threat is coming from left ,right,back or front with arrows.But I figure when you get a warning no matter what direction your gonna slow down.The 8500 still will warn you from any direction.Good luck with your choice,I think either one you cant go wrong :flag:
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  4. droptopsnake01

    droptopsnake01 New Member

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    The Valentine actually has 2 lasers one that shoots out the fron and one that shoots out the back. Also has a bogey counter, and a threat level. U really need to go to their website to understang what I'm talking about. It also has a "Concealed Display" so those cops in you lovely state wont see that detector.

    http://www.valentine1.com/
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  5. Uncle Meat

    Uncle Meat Banned

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    Hands down, V1! Worth it's weight in gold.

    [​IMG]

    U.M.
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  6. Screwed2V

    Screwed2V New Member

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    I could never do without my arrows lol. V1.
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  7. Lawman85

    Lawman85 Founding Member

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    lol... finally, a thread right up my alley....

    I'll shed some light on the way radars and lasers work. I am a radar and laser instructor here in Georgia, and to be honest, detectors are a waist of money. There are easier ways to avoid tickets. Since I know how they radars work and what conditions are needed for them, I have never been stopped for speeding while off duty.

    Radars have had a feature called "instant on" for the past 15 years or so. This means that the radar gun has a trigger to activate it only when the officer wants to use it. If your traveling down the road alone, and your detector gets a strong hit, pull over, you've been nailed. Radars do not work if you are in a group of cars where you can ride in someone else's "shadow" and never be detected. Also, if you are next to large trucks, they will be picked up and you never will be. I have written many a ticket to guys with radar detectors... I love those. I actually stopped on guy and left my radar on so his detector went crazy the entire time i wrote his ticket, he pulled it off the dash and smashed it.


    Now for lasers. I have run my own tests where I can shoot a car and never set off it's laser detector. At 300 - 500 ft a laser beam is only a couple feet wide/square. It is possible to shoot certain parts of a car and never alert the detector, and that is where I train people to shoot. If someone shoots the hood, too high on the grill, or to high on the back of the car, part of the beam will strike the detector and set it off. If you live in a state with a front license plate.....sorry... best spot. Now jammers.. A laser jammer will ONLY work if the laser gun is pointed right at the jammer, i.e. the windshield or where ever it's mounted. It WILL NOT work if it is mounted in the windshield and I shoot your rear license plate. If it does jam the laser, we are trained to pick another spot on the car and re-shoot, it always works.

    Now for a little math. The best radar detector on the market can receive a signal, translate it through it's filters, and give you an alert in about .8 seconds. Our laser guns can emit a beam, receive it, and display a speed in .5 seconds. Translation is, I will see your speed .3 seconds before you detector goes off. :spot:


    I hope that sheds some light on radars and lasers. It is very possible to get tickets even if you have detectors, I write them all the time. Smart driving and knowing how not to get caught is cheaper than a detector.

    Have fun.
    #7
  8. Traveler

    Traveler Founding Member

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    Arrows that point out up to 9 different radar sources and sensitivity to the rear that equals frontal sensitivity. I can see no reason not to pony up a bit extra for the Valentine and have the extra peace of mind.
    #8
  9. az_r2d1

    az_r2d1 New Member

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    The new passport 8200 X50 is awesome. Just as good as the V1 and cheaper. I've used both, and bought the 8500 for myself.
    Lidatek just came out with a new laser jammer, le-30. It's supposed to beat everything out there and catch the laser no matter where you get tagged on the front or rear. (depending on size of the car you need 1 or 2 sensors.)

    Other thing you might want to consider is a scanner.
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  10. Cobracide

    Cobracide Founding Member

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    I'm not convinced the passport 8200 is as good as the V1.
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  11. Uncle Meat

    Uncle Meat Banned

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    Everything you posted is correct, but lets keep in mind here that a radar detector is nothing more than a tool. People need to know how to use this tool to their advantage. Anyone who thinks they can roll down the highway all by themselves or leading the pack at 90MPH and expect their detector is gonna save 'em is a fool. I've been driving with a radar detector in my car for 20+ years. I used to own one of the original FuzzBusters!! Never had a ticket in my life for speeding. Then again, I'm smart enough to use my detector as a warning device...

    Remember these anyone?

    [​IMG]

    U.M.
    #11
  12. 91_4ourBanger

    91_4ourBanger New Member

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    ^^damn that thing is huge.
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  13. Uncle Meat

    Uncle Meat Banned

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    Yeah... Nothing like driving around with a toaster oven on your dash!

    U.M.
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  14. Lawman85

    Lawman85 Founding Member

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    Those picked up the old K bands I believe. They probably worked better then than the new ones due because there was less interference. Now there are so many signals in the air that the detectors can go crazy on false alarms.

    And you are right. It is HOW you drive more than what toys you have in there. Someone who knows how radar works and how to work traffic without being noticed will never get stopped. Thank god for everyone else that can't do that!!! lol
    #14
  15. GrayCobra

    GrayCobra New Member

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    Radar Detectors are great if you...

    IMHO, Radar Guns do not help you avoid traffic tickets. They might help you avoid a really bad wreck up ahead.

    I will try to interpret for those of you who don't possess a PhD in the electronics realm. My experience as a Training Instructor in Radar Repair and Calibration for the Military tells me this...In general I agree with you, Lawman85. And thanks for passing on that information! :nice: However, I'd like to pick a bone with your experience.

    This is where I differ from your message.
    Uncle Meat, I've had one...all right several different devices designed to overpower Radar Guns. Always thinking I was getting by. Until I learned my lesson(s) in the military.

    Radar and Radar Jamming are both a function of sending a powerful stream, of electronic energy in a certain bandwidth (k, ka...ect.) from one known point to another, then return that beam of energy to the guns receiver where a microprocessor calculates the speed with which the target is heading. Most basic law enforcement Radar Guns will perform this function far faster than a human being can blink their eye. (In the millisecond range) Which is much faster than you can hit the brakes, shut off their own radar detector, or turn around and run away. You cannot outrun a radar gun. What you can do is prepare yourself for a ticket!

    Jammers…What we as automotive enthusiasts should accept is that Radar ‘Jammers’ can only work if the Jamming equipment can focus a beam of energy that is roughly 10 times the power of the Radar Gun that is being ‘fired’ at a moving car, plane or whatever. So, the jammer must be powered up, pointed in the direction of the suspected radar tracking equipment and you must have some extremely fast reflexes. The fast reflexes are for the second and third times the officer shoots at your moving vehicle. With each attempt the radar gun has a larger possible chance of boring through the beam of energy from the ‘Jammer.’ What is so funny here is ‘Jammers’ typically don’t function with enough power to flood the Receiver of these highly efficient Radar Guns.

    Lawan85, you hit the nail on the head when you wrote about the large trucks giving a sort of cover or shield. That is an effect known as Doppler. You may have heard of Doppler Radar, because it picks up the clouds for weather radar purposes. In this case those large trucks have a large signature and force more return energy waves back to the radard guns receiver. Shadows are neat things, but you have to be fairly close to one of our bigger friends to get the benefits of that shadow effect.

    Please excuse me if I sound like some kind of freaky expert, but it goes with my chosen territory.

    :shrug: Face it guy’s Radar guns are there to let you know one of two things. Either you are about to talk with a law enforcement official, or that kind officer left his radar gun on to warn you of a bad accident up ahead. :bang:

    :rolleyes: Should you buy a radar detector? Sure, if you want to avoid wrecks or avoid those officers who leave their radar guns in an active status. :nice:

    P.S. Lawman85, do yo guy's still use those tuning forks to check your r-guns?
    #15
  16. Ernad

    Ernad celibate sans pants

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    I got an Escort 7500. I am not an electronic expert, but it works in certain situations. Those include picking off police coming towards me on a two way street (4 lane city street for example) from more than a half mile. Right there it pays off because I know there is a cop around and therefore I might not perform an illegal turn or other such act. I'm pretty sure you can get caugh with a radar, but it is help. If you want to drive fast be ready to face the consequences.
    #16
  17. Lawman85

    Lawman85 Founding Member

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    Yes, we still use tuning forks to test the calibration. Each manufacture provides the forks with each unit depending on their frequency.

    You know your stuff GrayCobra, but now I have to volley back to you..lol.... The shadow effect of riding next to a large truck is called the doppler "shadow" effect. Doppler is the type of radar that is used. Here is the difference between a "radar" gun and a "laser" gun.

    Radar measures a target's speed based on Doppler shift. It sends out a beam with a set beam width. The beam bounces off of the target and returns to the receive. The receiver measures how much the beam width compresses (target moving toward you) or expands (target moving away from you), to determine the target's speed. The beam travels at the same speed as light 186,000 miles per sec. The difference between all of the bands, K, Ka, X, is how many waves per sec. are sent out. The more waves per sec. the more accurate and faster the reading. The radar will only measure the beam that returns the most strength. If a mustang is next to an 18 wheeler, you will always get the speed of the truck because it has a larger "signature" like GrayCobra said. There are other errors such as "batching" and the "cosine effect" which can mess with radar readings. To be radar certified in Georgia requires a 2 day school and 16 hours of practice.

    Now laser works on the "time/distance" principle. It shoots a beam out and times how long it takes to get back. It then shoots a second beam and does the same function. It then determines how far the object moved in the time between the two beams and calculates a speed. In reality the beam is so quick that a car traveling 60+mph will only move an inch or two in the fractions of a second between the two beams. Laser, while appearing to be "higher tech" is actually a simpler technology and much easier to use. It cannot give false readings if used right. You can't hide from it. If I put the red dot on your bumper and pull the trigger, I will know how fast you are going.

    Seems like a lot of stupid stuff, but if you know more about it you won't get ripped off with these radar detectors.

    P.S. GrayCobra. The times I listed for using the laser versus the laser detector are correct. The laser operates faster than the detector. I have seen it work and have seen the math. I would post it unless I knew it first hand. I've spent a few years playing with them at work and trying experiments when I teach the classes.


    Have fun, safe motoring...lol...
    #17
  18. Traveler

    Traveler Founding Member

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    The only thing about the Escorts are that you still don't get the same rear sensitivity (without the rear antenna) and the arrows. I wouldn't dispute the fact that Escort can match or even slightly edge out (for the time being) the Valentine, but the Escorts just can't offer those features that many Valentine owners have come to love and depend on.
    When you've used the arrows and seen the V1 in action, I imagine most V1 owners will feel the same way and can quickly see the advantage of spending $100 bucks for those features...especially considering that the V1 is still one of the most sensitive radar detectors on the market. They not only hold their value extraordinarily well but are easily upgradeable. Its the total package.
    #18
  19. GrayCobra

    GrayCobra New Member

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    You know your Radar and Laser stuff

    Hey Lawman85,

    U know your lasers better than most Tech guy's I've met. 20+ military experiences. So, lets shoot at each other a bit (all in fun) Doppler is a very neat thing. About 1991 we had a meeting with a well-connected weatherman from northern Alabama about what would be the best Radar for detecting weather trends. Right after a really nasty twister took apart part of Huntsville AL. Now you see Doppler style radars all over the nation, even overseas.

    Enough of that, lets get back to Radar Guns. In the average car guy's life he will get a ticket or two.

    Like what? I drive my pony like it has a speed sensitive brake pedal. Other than that we civilians try our best to not run to many Corvettes, SS's and the like over on our way to the stables. :spot:

    Your statement rings very true. I believe the overall detector and radar guns performance is due to other factors than just the speed of the pulses generated. One of my older manuals states something to the effect that, "it's not because of the speed of the radar itself or the laser or receiver themselves, but rather the associated counters and filters in the circuitry which add to the data processing speeds." I took a few classes on Lasers from a little company, General Dynam**s, nothing to do with civilian level stuff but the range finders for gun systems. I believe they are the same general principals, but with more external controls for the military applications.

    Your on a roll. I agree whole heartedly. Without getting to techie, there are bandwidths that fall within the spectrum commonly referred to as, K, Ka, X. It’s not my area to know each one by heart, but they are the licensed and approved b/w's. As for Lasers, and other light energy emitting systems such as charge particle beams and the like (man is this getting deep) lasers are considered the best and most accurate for the purpose of "directional focus." Making them excellent for pointing a speed-detecting device such as yours. Radar originally had a very wide dispersion pattern. I seem to remember it to be a generally conical transmission form, with a dispersion of about 3-15 degrees from point of origin.

    The return signal, the one that bounces off the target and returns to the receiving antenna narrows that signal down to a very manageable, nearly pinpoint piece of the emitted wave. Therefore it is very specific in those terms. The way we loose any moving object made of a reflective material, such as a 2001 Z28 following well behind your highly motivated Stang, is for that larger more reflective object (large truck, etc) to bounce a better signal off of it. All this means that outside of certain ranges the larger object will return the signal that your Radar Gun takes as the acceptable data.

    That does NOT, mean we can avoid tickets from any judgment as a law enforcement officer. A friend tried that argument in court once and the judge laughed pretty hard.

    "But, your honor it was that big nasty truck that was going 110 on I-65. Not me." :lol:

    Bingo! You are the man! :nice: You must have gotten some serious training to know that stuff. I bet you bore those students as much as I did. And, I'm not referring to that 2 day school, you actually studied. My first school was about 26 weeks long. Redstone Arsenal, Alabama. With about 3 years of Research and Development time in various settings. All because I wanted to avoid getting tickets when I was about 24! :bang:

    A ? for you...Do you get false positive results from time to time with either the Radar or the Laser? Like near airfileds, or transmission towers. Like when there is no traffic or it is lightening. We used to from the Phased Array Radars and some early models of Laser Range Finders.

    BTW, Lawman85. If you ever pull over a Gray '03 Cobra, please take pity on my poor soul.
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  20. GrayCobra

    GrayCobra New Member

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