Modern day vehicle quality

[67topless]

I know these vehicles are infinetly more complex in todays world... but man, they just aren't built very well. I know I'm not telling all of you anything you don't all ready know... but it can be pretty frustrating some times (and expensive).

Case in point; my brother-in-law is at the dealer with my sisters 2006 Suburban becuase all the electronic gauges have whacked out (low fuel - low oil pressure - etc). This is all warranty work... so it is no more than just a PIA. However, while he is at the dealer, my sister gets in his 2004 Tahoe and it won't crank. Turns out the fuel pump died. Now, I know this is a pretty expensive problem because not more than three months ago, I was driving down the road in my 2001 Yukon when my fuel pump died.

I didn't mean to turn this into a GM bashing, because I would bet Chrysler and Ford have many problems too. Anyway... just venting I guess.

Scott

 

[bnickel]

we haven't had any real trouble out of my wife's last 3 "new" vehicles, 02 escape (current), 01 explorer and 96 monte carlo. we did have to take the escape because the egr solenoid went out but that was a "known issue" and there was a TSB with a "silent recall" out on them and they should be replaced under warranty. ours was out of warranty by that point but i had to argue with the service manager that since this was an emissions part it should be covered under the federal emissions warranty of 50 or 100,000 miles (can't remember which) he said since it wasn't the actual EGR valve that it wasn't covered but he finally caved on the issue and they replaced it under warranty anyway. of course since we'd bought our last 4 vehicles there and i threatened to never buy another one from them again helped i'm sure.

 

[skywalker]

First, Ford has the best reliability in recent years of any American automaker. Toyota has the best and Ford is not far behind. GM is fairly poor.

Believe it or not, cars built in recent years have better reliability rates over all. Unfortunately, everyone knows or has a horror story about a car that just never worked right, and they do exist. Anecdotally, my '01 Mustang has 135k on it and has never had any major repairs done to it. Just regular maintenance. My sister's '02 Cougar is the same.

 

[rbohm]

actually build quality today is far better than it was even 20 years ago, in fact even better than just 10 years ago. you are always going to find problems with anything that man builds, and you are going to hear about all the bad problems long before, and far more often, than the good things. take the last two cars my mother has had, an 87 sable and a 97 sable. the 87 had more minor problems than the 97 has even thought about having. the 87 had one major issue, the head gaskets were replaced on that car. the 97 has had no major issues what so ever. the reason that vintage cars seem like they had few issues compared to modern cars is that they were easy to repair by the owner. todays cars usually need a trip to the dealer to even figure out if there is a problem, and heaven forbid you have an intermittent problem these days. problems today for the most part are fewer with newer cars than with cars in old days.

 

[StangDreamin']

I guess I have been relatively lucky in my vehicle experiences; had only two absolute dogs, an "iffy" car, and 2 excellent ("so far" on one) trucks. My Gran Torino was murder on starters and alternators; but that was probably in part due to the el cheapo parts I was buying at Checker Auto - they never break when you're not broke! The '72 F100 did pretty good, considering that I couldn't ever decide whether it was either an F250 "Trailering Special" or just a stoplight asassin. The '76 C25 that replaced the F100 was the biggest Pile of S*** ever produced by any automaker; but the '91 C1500 Silverado (bought new) that replaced the '76 was by far the single most reliable vehicle I have ever experienced; until it just "died a thousand deaths" in about 2 months (after 14-1/2 years and 168,000 very hard miles). My present '02 F150 4x4 replaced the "Generic Chevy Truck"; and it's been problem free - although I'm still nervous about the "known issue" with pre-midyear-'03 5.4's "spitting out" spark plugs

Mrs StangDreamin's '76 Gremlin (I met her car before I met her) was a funky ride; that had a lot of typical "teenage stories" and the problems that went with the stories. The '86 Tempo that we bought new to replace the Gremlin (just before Tink was born) was a good car with a design-induced bad EFI problem. I finally spent $350-400 for an independent garage to fix it; 1100 miles after the Emission Controls Warranty expired, and two weeks before the Recall Notice (on that exact problem) arrived in our mailbox
(BTW for bnickel:) Back when I had problems with the Tempo; I learned to deal with Service Writers by telling them that "Anything more than a Motorcraft 2100 -sucking regular leaded gas- surrounded by oil breather caps and standard mufflers is an emission control device!"; and that I had a lawyer who agreed with me!)
Anyways, Sue's Tempo got totaled by a drunk running a red light; and the '94 Grand Am -bought new- that replaced it almost surpassed my '76 C25 in the POS category. We traded it off the day after I nearly dumped a full cylinder of .44 Rem Mag into the engine bay. (I was "kinda frustrated"; and Mrs StDr literally had to grab me as I was walking out to the carport, S&W in hand.) The '02 Ram Quad Cab that replaced the Pancho has had three problems: A tranny servo that was replaced under warranty, an ignition switch that the dealership replaced under a recall which I didn't even know about, and an A/C condensor fan (yeah, electric and separate from the engine fan) that I replaced with an $80 Flex-A-Lite from Summit.

In all... the good, the bad and the ugly came to me from all of the original "Big Three" automakers. I can't say who's better or worse anymore.....

 

[ranger04]

I tend to disagree, I believe the new cars are built alot better than they use to be. In the 70's, 100,000 miles on a motor and it was time for an overhaul. Now 200,000 miles isn't nothing on an engine. You were lucky to get a car paid off before the body rotted off. Now you can find cars 10 and 15 years old with good body's here in the rust belt. The old cars were easier and cheaper to repair to say the least, but no way built better. The metal may seem thinner or dent easier to a degree, but the reason for that is during an impact the metal will have more give to it so your body doesn't have to absorb the full impact. Thats why they have crumple zones and what have you. Old cars were built like tanks, but your body paid for it during a crash. Now we don't need tune up's before 100,000 miles, oil changes are upped to 5,000 miles or longer with synthetics. I feel that the new fords built really well, I know my new stang is alot stiffer and more rigid than my old ones, you don't even need to tie the frame untill you get into big hp. My new stang is alot more complicated but sturdy. We get 300 stock hp out of a 281, 350 with just a few bolt on's and run in the 12's. My 68 GT with a 428 CJ only ran 14.30's in stock trim, the 426 hemie cuda's were slower yet at around 14.50's or so. I'm not disapointed at all with my new stang, maybe a little when I go to work on it and I need a plumber and an electricain before a mechanic can get started ha ha.

 

[enferno]

my dad's /91 toyota pickup has 230k miles on it, and he's spent (not counting gas or oil changes) no more than $1300 on it total since he bought it new!

still runs strong, and i'm sure has quite a bit left in it's life.

then again, this is the exception to the rule

 

[suki243]

yah, my dad's 94 4 runner has taken a beating as well; coming up to 280k miles. Similarily he hasn't spent more that 1.5k on it. (not counting oil changes or gas)

On the other hand, my friend just bought a sebring hardtop convertible... within the first two days, the battery died, the roof leaks. They replaced the battery, same thing... its at the dealer now... They say its a problem with the convertible motor...
He said he's considering the lemon law...not sure if he'll be successful

I guess its the luck of the draw

 

[CraigMBA]

I've had more fuel pump failures on my vintage mustang than I have on all of the other vehicles I've ever owned put together.

 

[bnickel]

my dad's /91 toyota pickup has 230k miles on it, and he's spent (not counting gas or oil changes) no more than $1300 on it total since he bought it new!

still runs strong, and i'm sure has quite a bit left in it's life.

then again, this is the exception to the rule

actually, that's pretty typical of toyota pickups. IMO, THE BEST small pickup ever made as far as reliability and dependability. i used to deliver auto parts in those things back in the late 80's and we had a couple of trucks that over 300k on the clock and had never had anything more than oil changes (and not even reguar ones at that) and brakes, well of course gas, and they completely sold me on those trucks. i've been hunting for one, preferably an 87 or 88 model becuase they were the last of the old box toys and had the EFI version of the 22R. if i could find a nice straight one i'd redo it with a stroker kit, automatic, ps and even power windows and locks just to have the coolest little toyota but leave it all stock on the outside. yeah, i know, i'm nuts.

 

[skywalker]

I disagree on the Toyota pick-ups being the most reliable ever made, that crown has to go to the small Datsun and Nissan pick ups. You can shoot them with a Javelin anti-tank missile and they'll keep going.

As far as reliability, the industry and independent groups like Consumer Reports track vehicle reliability stats. The 5 year failure rates for vehicles are down (by that I mean the rate of which vehicles need a repair outside of normal maintenance in 5 years) and vehicle lifetimes are up. The average vehicle today will be on the road almost 3 times as long as the average vehicle 40-50 years ago.

 

[67topless]

All of you make some great points... I think it was just the accumulation of problems that coincidentally happened in a period of three or so months (and of course the issue with my sister and husband at the same time). That was a bummer.

That was a funny quote by Ranger04:

"I'm not disapointed at all with my new stang, maybe a little when I go to work on it and I need a plumber and an electricain before a mechanic can get started ha ha"

 

[ranger04]

I'm personally pro american and I think the best small p/u is the ford ranger. I've had 5 without so much as a hint of trouble. A guy on the ford truck forum as an 88 ranger reg-cab, 4 cylinder, 5-speed manual tranny. He has 350,000 miles on it, he says it doesn't climb the hills as well as it once did, but still going strong, just needs gas, oil and a tune up once in awhile. I've never had a problem with quality out of my fords or have they ever left me walking. I'ld put them up against any tojo out of japan.

 

[skywalker]

The best american p/u my family has had was an S-10 from the 80's. Second best is the 98 Mazda we now have though it's had some transmission issues

 

[bnickel]

I'm personally pro american and I think the best small p/u is the ford ranger. I've had 5 without so much as a hint of trouble. A guy on the ford truck forum as an 88 ranger reg-cab, 4 cylinder, 5-speed manual tranny. He has 350,000 miles on it, he says it doesn't climb the hills as well as it once did, but still going strong, just needs gas, oil and a tune up once in awhile. I've never had a problem with quality out of my fords or have they ever left me walking. I'ld put them up against any tojo out of japan.

sounds a lot like my brothers 95 ranger, it has over 350k but it's had to have a bit more than just oil changes and stuff. it's probably got another 100,000 in it though. my 93 cherokee had over 200K when i sold it and it was dependable as well but it too needed quite a bit more than just oil changes, etc.

one of my best friends had an 86 nissan pickup that supposedly didn't exist according to any parts book we ever found because the engine in it was supposedly never used in anything but the hardbody nissans but he'd had his since new and that was the engine it had. we finally found out from the Nissan dealer that it was an 86 1/2 model. he had quite a few little problems with it but it was fairly dependable too.

i still stand by the toyota pickups as the best small trucks ever built, mainly the 80-88 models, there are 2 different body styles in that year range. i will say however, that the diesel version sucked!!!!!

 

[ranger04]

Yeah, I remeber those 80's yoda p/u's, those are the ones that the beds tended to rot off, at least here in the rust belt The yoda SR22 4 banger was a good engine, the datsun trucks were tough as well, but I don't think the ranger has to take a back seat to either. I guess were getting off topic, it's supose to be old -vs- new, not america -vs- japan. Who else thinks the new stuff is built pretty well, or does the old iron get your nod.

 

[bnickel]

i don't really think it's so much a new vs old american vs import as it is upkeep in most cases. but some engines/vehicles you just can't kill. 22r, slant six, 300 ford, jeep 4.0 are all examples of engines that just won't die

 

[noblesteed]

As a ford mechanic for nearly twenty years I've seen the changes in quality.when I started back in the mid eighties we changed an engine every week now 6(for the whole shop) a year is about average last one I changed was an 04 machI that the owner admitted his son "may have missed a shift" at full throttle and he cracked the top of piston #5 both ring lands can't really blame ford for that.What we see now is cost cut backs.They take options/features out and see if they get complaints.if they get too many complaints the feature gets back in example power door lock switches in the back of suvs/mini vans.all you 2005 and newer mustang owners don't have a trunk switch in the glove box same deal there.they also cut on components take drive by wire for example no more throttle cable.cruise control cable/servo no more idle air control this equals $$$ per unit built.so if they save 250$ per car and they build 250000 cars then the stock holders are happy another plus with drive by wire (for manufacturer) is drive line life they can control how the powertrain operates to save on wear on components = fewer warranty claims.grease fittings are rarity now a days. wiring guage is just adequate for the current load on the circuit they save on copper costs.they do build better cars in some areas but poorer in others.it's all about customer expectations and surveys.anybody who owns a newer car has gotten a survey on their car...that's where they do their "work" from

 

[bnickel]

As a ford mechanic for nearly twenty years I've seen the changes in quality.when I started back in the mid eighties we changed an engine every week now 6(for the whole shop) a year is about average last one I changed was an 04 machI that the owner admitted his son "may have missed a shift" at full throttle and he cracked the top of piston #5 both ring lands can't really blame ford for that.What we see now is cost cut backs.They take options/features out and see if they get complaints.if they get too many complaints the feature gets back in example power door lock switches in the back of suvs/mini vans.all you 2005 and newer mustang owners don't have a trunk switch in the glove box same deal there.they also cut on components take drive by wire for example no more throttle cable.cruise control cable/servo no more idle air control this equals $$$ per unit built.so if they save 250$ per car and they build 250000 cars then the stock holders are happy another plus with drive by wire (for manufacturer) is drive line life they can control how the powertrain operates to save on wear on components = fewer warranty claims.grease fittings are rarity now a days. wiring guage is just adequate for the current load on the circuit they save on copper costs.they do build better cars in some areas but poorer in others.it's all about customer expectations and surveys.anybody who owns a newer car has gotten a survey on their car...that's where they do their "work" from

i believe that but one question has always bugge the hell out of me on wifes 02 escape xls. it didn't come with a center console so i bought one at the wrecking yard to install in it, i then found out i also had to buy the stupid parking brake assembly because the console and non console escapes use a different parking brake mechanism. i have both but haven't gotten up the gumption to install them. can you direct me to the Ford engineer that thought up this brilliant idea so i can go kick his ass?

 

[noblesteed]

Hi bnickel if I knew where to find them I'd have no toes left myself LOL you should see some of the sillyness in the new ford stuff it makes you wonder WHY???? why do it like that ?? there's got to be some reason that defies obvious logic because I can't explain it You would think that making only one park brake handle would save $$ and headaches other thing that gets me is the "Henry Ford " factor lets make it easy to assemble but to hell with taking apart to fix all body mouldings/trim is made to install fast on the assembly line but try taking it off without breaking anything same with wheel bearings now they're hubs and bearings no more regreasing all because they're faster to put on the line sorry just venting rough day fixing fords hope your console install goes easy for you