NA 2.3L performance

[StangCollecter]

Ok,


I am wondering what kind of things I can do to my dual plug 2.3L to get some more performance.

I know CAI header and Ranger cam are all good ideas, but what kind of power would that get me?

If I am going to swap in a Turbo motor, why not just go 5.0? They have stroker kits for under 600 and I could run high Compression Hyperuetectics and get 450 hp without Forced Induction or NOS. Plus if I run Fuel injection I can also have dependability.

The stock auto trans is starting to give me a headache (shifts back and forth between gears too often, reverse takes 10 seconds to engage, then I have to rev it to engage it). I've been planning on swapping it out for a T-5 anyway.

So, I guess what I am saying is, if I am not swapping out the motor, what can I do to get it to run good?

I always see the answer being swap a turbo 2.3 in, but like I said, if I'm swapping engines, I will just go 5.0 I can get 450 hp for not a lot of $$.



Let's just say, if I went with hot cam, and a fully ported Dual Plug, a ported intake manifold, header with full exhaust, what would that get me power wise?

How much with an Esslinger head for NA motors?

 

[88stangmangt]

why a 5.0? you dont need a v-8 to go fast....plus they are heavier. anything esslinger is $$$$ your better off to send your dual plug head to be seriously ported. if you plan to stay N/A mill the head and throw in a set of 4.10 gears. Any time you toy with a motor I.E trying to build a killer motor take what ever amount of money you figured it would cost and double it....then you should have a idea. IMO a 2.3l Turbo motor from a T/C is the best way to go for you....you also didnt mention that you would have to swap the whole harness for a 5.0 motor...the trans/rear and a stroker isnt a reliable DD motor. .....why not just drop in a 2.3t and go.

 

[StangCollecter]

not to sound cocky, but I've built several engines. Not a 2.3L ford tho, and that's why I was asking this question.

built a 120 hp Honda SOHC up to 199 WHP with cam and bolt ons.

Built a 240HP (actually about 190 when we got it) Buick regal T-type 3.8L V6 into a 650 hp Turbo monster.

Built a Cologne V6 (2.8L) into a Fuel injected twin turbo monster with 550 at the wheels, Not sure what hp was when I started, it was a junkyard block.

Built a few 302's, 350's etc. So I do know what it takes to go fast. I'm just asking what kind of numbers I could expect from improvements I listed on this motor.

I do know the weight advantages of the 4. However I also know how to build a stout 450 hp V8 that will last a long time.

By saying I could just drop in a 5.0 into it, I am basically saying don't tell me to swap motors. If I am, it's gonna have more cylinders. And I'm not afradi of wires. I have a lot experience with wiring.

A stroker can be a daily driver, if it's build right. most people build them and tune them to the edge, or as all out racing engines. I know how to back it off, run a little rich to keep the rotating assembly where it belongs. A 331 can be easily turned into a DD. A 347? a little tricky, but possible.

Basically you told me what I told you not to tell me, to swap to a 2.3T.

 

[88stangmangt]

i told you what eveyone esle would have told you....is a 5.0 swap what you wanted to hear??? think about it....a flat 2.3L is 90-95hp max the only thing i can see you doing to get more hp is extreme port/polish and milling of the head...ranger cam and rockers. ported upper and lower. 65mm tb conversion....longtube header and full exhaust. and a nice set of gears but still then i can see 150-160hp max....IMO i would swap out to a 5.0...for better potential i had a nasty 5.0 H/C/I and a vortech s/c....but i sold it because it had a potential limit of 500hp being that the stock blocks cant take much more than that....so if i go back to a 302 it will be a dart block with a single turbo...but i figured i would try my hand with the 2.3T since from what i have found on all the boards that along with the 03-04 cobra motors are the 2 best block ford has EVER built for boost. plus with a tubular K-member and A-Arms i enjoy the weight ratio. im not calling you out or saying you dont know what your talking about...alot of people dont know about the 2.3T motors nor did i state anything about your mechanical ability....the choice is yours...checkout www.turboford.net for good info that might change your mind by the way my motor should put out 430-475hp on about 25-30psi without nitrous.

 

[StangCollecter]

i told you what eveyone esle would have told you....is a 5.0 swap what you wanted to hear??? think about it....a flat 2.3L is 90-95hp max the only thing i can see you doing to get more hp is extreme port/polish and milling of the head...ranger cam and rockers. ported upper and lower. 65mm tb conversion....longtube header and full exhaust. and a nice set of gears but still then i can see 150-160hp max....IMO i would swap out to a 5.0...for better potential i had a nasty 5.0 H/C/I and a vortech s/c....but i sold it because it had a potential limit of 500hp being that the stock blocks cant take much more than that....so if i go back to a 302 it will be a dart block with a single turbo...but i figured i would try my hand with the 2.3T since from what i have found on all the boards that along with the 03-04 cobra motors are the 2 best block ford has EVER built for boost. plus with a tubular K-member and A-Arms i enjoy the weight ratio. im not calling you out or saying you dont know what your talking about...alot of people dont know about the 2.3T motors nor did i state anything about your mechanical ability....the choice is yours...checkout www.turboford.net for good info that might change your mind by the way my motor should put out 430-475hp on about 25-30psi without nitrous.

well, in your first post you stated what I had said I didn't want to hear.

I agree the 2.3T is a good motor. However, how much do you have into your 2.3T? Yes I can go that route. But it really isn't what I want to do. If I do, I know I'll just want more and more power, so if I am going to go that route, I'll start with a 302 or even a 351, and get good power from the start. A Turbo short block with Forged rods and pistons, a stock ported heads, etc, and I am looking at a few more bucks to step up to a 302, and if I do, it will be a stroked 302...... Swapping motors to get 200 hp? Why not swap motors and step up to 450 instead? I've driven cars with over 700 hp, and I could deal with a DD 450 hp car without needing a little more. I think it's cool when I get beat in a fast car, cause I know what kind of work the other person had to do, to get there.

Maybe I will change my mind, who knows. But right now I am wondering what things I could do to the engine that is in the car, and what kind of power I could see from it. You answered the main question in the your 2nd reply, but not the first......

I figured if I wrote, what gains will I get from XY and Z? Everyone would have said just swap in a 2.3T engine, so I tried to sidestep that.

I'm not getting upset or pissy, just wonder why you didn't answer the question posted, and said exactly what I said I didn't want to hear.....

Anyway, thanks. 150-160 hp.... well maybe I will do that for now, and slowly build up a V8, aluminum heads, custom intake manifold, etc. 150 is a hell of a lot better than 100.

 

[Roland69]

yea I'd build up a v8 rather than be limmited what can be done with a 2.3.

 

[88stangmangt]

ya to everyone there own.....i have had 2 5.0's and a 4.6L i was happy with the 4.6 over all the 5.0's but i just want to be different now more than anything. and im just going by what other people have said.....not trying to change anyone's mind or brag. But there is a guy on corral.net in the 2.3l forum his forum name is 351coupe and of course he has a 351 coupe with obviously motor work and i think a tube chasis...and a stock 2.3T motor and the 2.3 beats the 351 every time hands down.....so i guess this is why i decided to go my route also cause people havnt had any luck making good power with production 302 blocks. yes 150 is a whole hell of a lot better but everyone here just isnt a fan of the N/A 4 but good luck in what ever route you choose. and remeber stangnet,corral,turboford are all good sites even for the n/a 2.3 and racer walsh and esslinger are big into them both aswell.

 

[StangCollecter]

ya to everyone there own.....i have had 2 5.0's and a 4.6L i was happy with the 4.6 over all the 5.0's but i just want to be different now more than anything. and im just going by what other people have said.....not trying to change anyone's mind or brag. But there is a guy on corral.net in the 2.3l forum his forum name is 351coupe and of course he has a 351 coupe with obviously motor work and i think a tube chasis...and a stock 2.3T motor and the 2.3 beats the 351 every time hands down.....so i guess this is why i decided to go my route also cause people havnt had any luck making good power with production 302 blocks. yes 150 is a whole hell of a lot better but everyone here just isnt a fan of the N/A 4 but good luck in what ever route you choose. and remeber stangnet,corral,turboford are all good sites even for the n/a 2.3 and racer walsh and esslinger are big into them both aswell.

ummm, thanks I guess.....

but seriously a 351 car that loses to a stock 2.3T? Must be tuned to "barely run" or a mix match of parts.

Either way, that's very sad.

The first 302 Build up I did, we put TFS R heads, Cobra (port matched) intake, E303 cam, throttle body Injectors (forget what size), fuel pump, and a few suspension mods to waken her up, and tie her down, along with intake and exhaust, and she would walk a brand new vette at the time (early C5 time frame) with ease. It was my friends car, but I wrenched on it as much as he did. Your story about the 351 reminds me of the race my friend had against a guy in a "jungle gym" GT (our term for a street car with a cage), and walked him so pathetically bad, that the guy was visibly upset.

Actually before that (1996ish) I had a 82 GT that I put an intake, carb and exhaust on (single side, lol) and I took a brand new camaro SS with Auto Trans from a stop up to 75. Not really a build up, but it was quick with minor mods.

But then again, another friend in a relatively quick 89 TA got walked by a SVO, so I know they can be quick.

And while I know the 5.0 block is not made to live over 500 hp for a long time, A main girdle and 450 peak hp as long as it is put together right, should last a while.

 

[StangCollecter]

yea I'd build up a v8 rather than be limmited what can be done with a 2.3.

well, I think it's just easier to make the power I want from the V8.


But I really don't think the 2.3 is that limited. There are 9 second 2.3s in existance. Not too many stock 5.0 blocks that go that fast, but there are some....

Basically I know for the power level I want, I can go with a cast steel crank, and hyper. pistons in a stroker kit, with some decent heads and intake, and I'll be right where I want to be. With a 2.3, I'll need a lot more.

Guess I've answered my own question(s) really. I think I really just want to build the stroker V8.

 

[Roland69]

Good call. I was thinking of getting a 2.3 notch to have for a dd and if I blew it up then build a stroker.

 

[white1989]

Power to weight.

If you are looking to make your car into a canyon carver, then I would stay 2.3. With a 52/48 weight distribution its close to ideal for better handling. That's why Ford made the SVO with the 4 cylinder Turbo. 205 hp at 12psi is not shabby. It's also 300 lbs lighter....

If you want take the car to strip, then 5.0 it...handling is not so much an issue.

If you are going to use your car as a daily driver then driveability is going to be paramount...

So you want to know how much you can do to get some ok power with your 2.3..

Port and polish head and intake.
Shave head to increase compression.
Ranger header and keep the EGR.
Cam depends on transmission choice - not too radical if you are using your A4LD auto trans as too aggressive will really affect engine vacuum - and the trans uses vacuum to control the modulator valve.
CAI are simple and cheap to make. $10 worth of abs pipe - et voila.
2 1/4" tubing for your exhaust. Use a good muffler. If you use cheap it will be fawking loud

MSD ignition - believe it or not it actually makes a difference...

Your trans should be rebuilt. I would suggest you pick up an ASTG guide and rebuild kit from ebay. Pick up a dead a4ld from a wrecker and rebuild it. When finished - you should invest into a transmission oil cooler.

Superchip - good for 10 hp increase and 10ft/lb torque.

With those mods, you should be in the realm of 130 - 140 hp - maybe more? With your 3.73 rear end it will be not so bad, and will hold it's own on the highway.
Superchip - good for 10 hp increase and 10ft/lb torque.

 

[white1989]

http://www.dpo.uab.edu/~bmclean/pages/m2_faq2.htm

Wonderful old write up....

 

[StangCollecter]

With those mods, you should be in the realm of 130 - 140 hp - maybe more?

meh,

even more bleak than 88stangmanGT said.... lol


I can make up for the power to weight ratio. K-member, hood, maybe even Fenders..... Won't drop 300 lbs off the front, but a stiff sway bar and good shocks, springs and struts should get me pretty close. Also the biggest handlign problem to me on the Mustang is the chassis flex, so going to do jacking rails and subframes, etc.

I know the trans needs to be rebuilt, but it has been this way since I got it, and don't drive it much. Maybe I'll rebuild it when I take it out, and sell it as a rebuilt unit, so I can actually sell it instead of having to take it to a scrap yard.

 

[Jquintel]

meh,

even more bleak than 88stangmanGT said.... lol


I can make up for the power to weight ratio. K-member, hood, maybe even Fenders..... Won't drop 300 lbs off the front, but a stiff sway bar and good shocks, springs and struts should get me pretty close. Also the biggest handlign problem to me on the Mustang is the chassis flex, so going to do jacking rails and subframes, etc.

I know the trans needs to be rebuilt, but it has been this way since I got it, and don't drive it much. Maybe I'll rebuild it when I take it out, and sell it as a rebuilt unit, so I can actually sell it instead of having to take it to a scrap yard.

do you have the parts to drop a 5.0 into a 4banger?

 

[tjm73]

If you are looking to make your car into a canyon carver, then I would stay 2.3. With a 52/48 weight distribution its close to ideal for better handling. That's why Ford made the SVO with the 4 cylinder Turbo. 205 hp at 12psi is not shabby. It's also 300 lbs lighter....

The turbo 2.3 in full street dress is less than 100 pounds lighter than a 302/5.0. All the weight savings that the 4 cylinder block gives is offset by the heavy exhaust manifold, the turbo, the intercooler, and all the associated plumbing.

 

[StangCollecter]

do you have the parts to drop a 5.0 into a 4banger?

lol, no, none of the parts.

Had them all at one time or another. Think I still have a 89 ECM for a GT 5 speed around somewhere.

Have a T-45 trans for a modular engine, have a supercharger from a Pontiac GTP, some other stuff. I am not looking to do the swap this afternoon.....

I do know it will take me a while to do the swap, mostly to get all the parts.

 

[Jquintel]

lol, no, none of the parts.

Had them all at one time or another. Think I still have a 89 ECM for a GT 5 speed around somewhere.

Have a T-45 trans for a modular engine, have a supercharger from a Pontiac GTP, some other stuff. I am not looking to do the swap this afternoon.....

I do know it will take me a while to do the swap, mostly to get all the parts.

in that case, rather than going the jy route (not sayin this is bad) but wouldnt it be cheaper to find a running 5.0 ??

 

[StangCollecter]

in that case, rather than going the jy route (not sayin this is bad) but wouldnt it be cheaper to find a running 5.0 ??

have to see what I can do along that route.

I have been looking at used ones, if I can swing a small loan, that's probably the route I'll take. I've seen a lot of ok ones for around 4500, 6500-7000 seems to be the going price for a very clean one with tasteful mods, and sometimes I see a low mile one for 4500-6000. I'd prolly go for a low mile stock one (hopefully 5 speed) if I can get a loan. We'll see. If other things I am working on pan out, I will have more cash to play with.

 

[Jquintel]

have to see what I can do along that route.

I have been looking at used ones, if I can swing a small loan, that's probably the route I'll take. I've seen a lot of ok ones for around 4500, 6500-7000 seems to be the going price for a very clean one with tasteful mods, and sometimes I see a low mile one for 4500-6000. I'd prolly go for a low mile stock one (hopefully 5 speed) if I can get a loan. We'll see. If other things I am working on pan out, I will have more cash to play with.

i had a wrecked gt and was looking to do a swap, but before i got into it, i realized that i would probably spend close enough money on the swap and do it right, as i could buy a cheap one, and put my good parts in it....