Saleen new inlet/intake for Series II

Discussion in 'Special Production' started by RedS281GT, Mar 18, 2008.

  1. pbm.cc

    pbm.cc New Member

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    Yeah, I quoted myself! I was anxious... lol

    well It seems like too much $ for too little improment. Dang! I was hope for you to be in the low 400's!
    I might just save $ now for a 2.6H and a built short block.
    dang it.

    Still, now get cams, and the cobra fuel tank and you may need a Diablo MAFia and bump it a little over 400. Also, what is the altittude and temp of the dyno? and if the car's intercooler pump cause alot of heat soak on the first run, was it cool before the second pull? man you should had take some dry ice and put it in the heat exchanger resivor before dynoing! lol:nice:

    Still that's a great dynosheet! seems like they put their hard work into your car.
     
    #61
  2. pbm.cc

    pbm.cc New Member

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    per your sig: Do you still have the stock intercooled hood using the 2.6h?

    just wondering...
     
    #62
  3. RedS281GT

    RedS281GT Member

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    It was about 100 degrees inside the shop. I did put ice on the s/c to help cool before the runs. I think the air intake temp was somewhere around 138 to 148 at WOT. Some dry ice in the tank would have helped. BTW, with the hp that i'm showing, how much do you think it hurt me to have a stock 2.25 cat-back on? I''ve been told that it could be a huge bottleneck!
     
    #63
  4. saleen556

    saleen556 New Member

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    No. I had to go with the 2k cobra R hood. I have heard the saleen extreme may fit but didn't want to risk it. The hood has actually grown on me now and I like it.
     
    #64
  5. rfedd

    Founding Member

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    The rule of thumb is that every 10 degrees is worth about 10 HP. Example: 99 GT, TTI blower, mid day 95 degrees, 29 % humidity 375 rwhp. Next morning: 65 degrees, 21% humidity 408 rwhp. Most dyno sheets you see posted by manufacturers are done early in the day (or in an air conditioned room) and those are the numbers posted. The cats could be changed to hi-flow cats which would also pick up some power.
    I hope when you hit the track its a nice cool day. ET's will tell us more. Glad to see things worked out with Dynospeed.

    BTW..that Focus pump should be good to about 390/400. Did they look at the duty cycle on the pump at all? Or injector duty cycle? I also did not see a boost curve on the sheet. Do you know what boost levels were?
     
    #65
  6. RedS281GT

    RedS281GT Member

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    the fuel pump was maxed out around 319rwhp. It would climb up to 1.000 which meant 100%, i guess.:shrug: Is there a chance that my brand new focus pump could be defective? It sucked in a lot of air, enough to lean it out. The only explanation is that its either defective or somewhere along the way, the power is not getting to the tires! I'm going to do a compression test soon to see if thats the culprit. It has been running pig rich for a long, long time!

    Joe never brought to my attention any issues with the injectors, so I would assume that they worked fine. The boost was a funny thing. I now have the 66mm pulley on there, but it only climbed up to 10 lbs. @ 6200rpm! When I was installing the injectors, I must have knocked loose my boost wiring. They decided to just hook up one of theirs and it only showed 10lbs! I did read on a post in another thread that when you port the lower intake, you could loose a pound of boost because there is less restriction and boost is a measure of restriction, correct?! Could the Tork Tech inlet tube remove enough restriction to cause a drop in boost?? Those two factors could explain why I only saw 10lbs. instead of 13 lbs.

    In addition to that, I bought the 111.5 inch belt for the pulley swap, but it was too tight, so the techs insisted that I use my origional belt. I thought it would be too long, but it fit! On the dyno, there was no belt slip at all. When the belt slips, there are dips in the air/fuel ratio. I didn't have any. Didn't know if that sounded weird to anyone else.


    00 GT vert
    Series II S/C
    BBK long tubes & o/r x-pipe, pro 5.0, 3:55's, TT inlet, cobra TB, 66mm pulley,
    90mm TB, Chicane intercooler, hand ported lower intake, SCT
     
    #66
  7. RedS281GT

    RedS281GT Member

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    Oh, and im on 15 degrees of timing!

    00 GT vert
    Series II S/C
    BBK long tubes & o/r x-pipe, pro 5.0, 3:55's, TT inlet, cobra TB, 66mm pulley,
    90mm TB, Chicane intercooler, hand ported lower intake, SCT
     
    #67
  8. pbm.cc

    pbm.cc New Member

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    Stock from a Saleen or a GT? I dont know how good the Borlas from my 02 S281sc are but they sound nice at WOT and quite while crusing. However a GT's is murder on the motor!!! those have to go... You will definatly free up some ponies there. Were you getting any slippage? and my friend also dynoed his car today with a V2sq and 15lbs no intercooler. About a year ago he dynoed at 498rwhp on torco. Today he was changing from his Predator to a 3stage flip switch and dynoed at 457rwhp on torco and 427rwhp on pump. Manny (HPP) said that the temp in the shop was a little over 100 degrees, and on the old tune it was 72 degrees! so about 40rwhp loss due to the temp. You never know.... might be closer to 400rwhp that what I think.
     
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  9. Gearbanger 101

    Gearbanger 101 Straight Outta Locash
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    Actually, opening things up on the intake end like you did would normally increase boost, not lower it. It's when you free things up on the exhaust side that boost pressure drops, because you're able to more efficiently "evacuate" spent gasses through the system.

    Most likely it was the heat that caused your boost to drop. Warm air caries less oxygen with it, as a result is easier to compress than cooler, more dense air and as a result, will show up as a drop on the gauge.

    And I've added your vehicle info to your sig, so you don't need to add it to your every post from now on. :)
     
    #69
  10. pbm.cc

    pbm.cc New Member

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    I would had stuck with the 111.5! The guy that MAKES the MOSALEEN idlers is the one that told me to use that size belt with the 66mm and the idler. It seems to weird to use the stock belt that was on a bigger pulley plus no idler, that could also be why you didnt see the 13lbs.

    Some things dont make sense to me...

    1: if the Chicane intercooler almost garrantees about 40-50rwhp where are they at? (my s281sc dynoed at 301rwhp with everything stock from Saleen.)

    2: the TTI should had given it more rwhp... I was thinking about 10-25rwhp since its from the LMAF sensor, single blade TB and the intake itself. ( so that should had been about 301 + lets say 40rwhp from the intercooler + say 15rwhp from the TTI= 356rwhp give or take and you still have LT's and the 66mm pulley! and lower ported!!! Something is wrong... I would think.

    what size injectors do you have? maybe time for a bigger heat exchanger? cams? catback? damn it! It should be over 400!:shrug:
     
    #70
  11. RedS281GT

    RedS281GT Member

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    Damn it, it should!:flag:
    I might try to put it on myself! Don't know if it will mess with my tune or not! I do have the idler, maybe thats why it didn't slip, who knows! there honestly was no evidence of slippage. Could it be possible that it was slipping the entire time and that's why it didn't show up on the data logging? Any thoughts?

    I have a feeling that the TTI inlet did help. It's supposed to open up the top end breathing and I pulled all the way to 6200 rpm. I haven't seen another Saleen car do that.

    The lower is hand ported by myself. I just opened up the 180 degree bends a little and gasket matched the intake....and heads!:nonono:

    I have the 42lb. injectors and even though i could use the cat-back and heat exchanger upgrade, it should still be over 400! From what a few have posted just a while ago, the 98 degree room temperature could have robbed me of some 30 odd hp( just a guess).

    Thanks Gearbanger 101 for the upgrade! :hail2:
     
    #71
  12. RedS281GT

    RedS281GT Member

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    One more thing! A fuel pump will never care about a dyno sheet or a hp number! It only knows that it has to pump fuel based on the air supplied into the engine! With that being said, if my pump isn't bad, then why was it maxing out at 319 rwhp? There was enought air to lean it out. Something is not right!
     
    #72
  13. pbm.cc

    pbm.cc New Member

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    I will agree with this part... Your car shouldhad been higher. when you get a chance go to a dyno shop and just pay the $30 for a dyno in the morning. See how much the temp in the shop hurt your car.

    Also is the clutch slipping? that could be why the graph at high rpm is bumpy.

    if you ARE able to install the 111.5 belt on your car with the 66mm pulley it may affect the tune as IF you were getting slippage with the tune, now there would be none or minimal. so more boost and the same amount of timing. maybe just see if it fits and if it does then take it back and tell them "YO! THE BELT DOES FIT AND IT WAS SUPPOST TO BE ON WITH THE DYNO, CAN YOU MAKE SURE THE TUNE IS SAFE WITH THE 111.5 BELT?!"
    they , shouldnt act up as you had originally told them to use it and they are the ones that backed out of it.

    Still it would be a good ideal to do a compression check. Never hurts.


    Also, if your able to get another dyno (either by just doing a dyno for $30 or taking it back for a check up on the 111.5 belt) buy a little fuel pressure gage and mount it on the motor's fuel rail, have someone see if the fuel pressure drops alot in high rpm. If it does it is probably the fuel pump.

    Are you using colder plugs? like NGK tr6's or something like that?

    you made sure you have no vacuum leaks?

    header leaks?

    other than that... I cant think of nothing else at the moment.

    by the way:

    :flag:HAPPY 4TH OF JULY!!!:flag:
     
    #73
  14. rfedd

    Founding Member

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    The fact that it started showing lean on the early runs, would tell me that it is definitely a fuel delivery issue. It is possible the fuel pump is not up to par. The Focus pump is as good as, if not better than the Ford GT pump (of course they use 2). At the 400 HP level they usually show a 90% duty cycle. Gearbanger is 100% correct. You will notice a pressure drop by removing restriction or back pressure on the "output" side of the blower, not on the inlet side.
    Who else here installed a 66mm pulley and what kind of boost level change did they see?
    The power curves on the Dyno sheet show that there is no clutch or belt slippage. I have seen dozens od Dyno sheets with slippage problems, and they are REAL apparent. No sign of that here.

    I think the shop temperature and the fuel issue are the key here.
     
    #74
  15. Metalcop

    Metalcop Active Member

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    I would not use the boost-a-pump as a long term solution. IMO, I have never agreed with cranking up the juice to the fuel pump, to get more volume. The boost-a-pump is 'band aid' defined. I am a 5.0 guy, so I am not up to speed on which fuel pump is best for your car. Sounds like the Focus pump should do it, but clearly it is not. I think that the modern diagnostic computer can monitor fuel pressure and volts used by the pump, as a way of testing it. I would try and diagnose if it is working properly, 1st. If not, replace it with same, maybe a warranty issue? For your application, I would recommend an external inline fuel pump. Something like a Vortech T-Rex, or Anderson Big Pump, and I think BBK makes a pricey one, as well. The external pump will not hurt anything, all it will do is greatly boost your fuel volume, as it is required. Good luck!
     
    #75
  16. Gearbanger 101

    Gearbanger 101 Straight Outta Locash
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    Been running one on my ride for over a year now with "zero" issues. And that's running it under constant high voltage operation....I got rid of that crappy hobbs switch after the first week.
     
    #76
  17. RedS281GT

    RedS281GT Member

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    I don't think the clutch is slipping. At least, it didn't smell like it was! I do have the NGK tr6's gapped at 36. Did have a small vaccume leak. It was fixed for the tune, but I will need a more permanent solution. Easy fix!

    And from what everyone has posted, it seems like I dynoed my car under the worst possible conditions. No fault to Dynospeed of course! 150 degree IAT's, a heat soaked engine, and 100 degree weather in July! With all that, I still managed 345rwhp! I guess its good to know what I can be guaranteed to have during the summer months!:)
    And I'm not a fan of bench racing, but 65 degree weather and seeing 12 -13lbs of boost might put me over the 400rwhp mark! 10hp for every 10 degrees of temp, and guessing almost 10hp for every additional pound of boost. Didn't know if those two would bleed together or not. And a question on that! My tune is based off of 10lbs of boost! When the months cool down and I do see 12-13lbs, will it cause me to run lean? And should I be concerned about how much power I see over my tune when it cools down?
     
    #77
  18. Gearbanger 101

    Gearbanger 101 Straight Outta Locash
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    A10hp for every 10 degree drop in temp is really generous…and those are gains from much larger and more high RPM efficient blowers than the little M90. I would realistically put horsepower increase guesses in around the 3-4hp range from what I normally see of them. And 10hp per pound of boost is assuming you're running enough blower and also within its adiabatic efficiency level. You run a pulley any smaller than 2.5-2.7" on an M90 and you're bringing it out of its efficiency range and turning it into an expensive hair dryer. Over spinning your Eaton will most likely result in a little more torque down low and earlier in the rev range, but don’t count on seeing much more up top.

    Ask me how I know. :D
     
    #78
  19. eviligloo

    eviligloo New Member

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    I've been watching this thread for awhile now.....something definitely doesn't seem right.

    With a 66mm pulley, custom tune, and SVT fuel pump I put down 340rwhp with a series II saleen blower. SVT focus fuel pump was fine and I didn't run out of fuel. I think I topped out at about 8 or 9psi for boost.

    PBM.CC is right. The chicane intercooler (if properly installed) should give you about 30-35 more horsepower (the highest ever documented was +44hp from Mark @ Performance Autosport in VA on a series IV S/C.

    I swapped out my belt for a smaller one. I'd guess you're seeing at least some belt slippage.

    Maybe something went wrong with the porting? I would check fuel delivery on this one and then upgrade to 42lb injectors if necessary.

    Also...for the mods that you have done.....you should have had to change out your mass airflow sensor (or go the diablosport MaFiA route). Did your MAF peg? I was right on the border with mine. I have to upgrade if I add the chicane intercooler.

    Last thing....there's gotta be something wrong with that tune. Re-check the A/F ratio.

    Keep us updated....
     
    #79
  20. pbm.cc

    pbm.cc New Member

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    What I am really leaning towards is just installing cams on the Saleen! I bet since it already has boost by me adding cams, 66mm pulley, mosaleen idlers and my frpp ceramic coated shorties I will either be higher or about the same as he.
    I may need a MAFia and a LMAF, plus I still have room to upgrade the intake and intercooler and heat exchanger.

    I still think something is wrong other than the temp. Probably the fuel pump I would go with the twin cobra fuel pumps. Why even bother with another Focus pump.:shrug:
     
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