Once n For all chevy/ford poll

[CarMichael Angelo]

]I think your voting options are stupid and therefore I won't vote.

I can't see how you'd find yes or no stupid.

Like I said earlier, ignore the after comment, if it bugs you. The fact that it's a simple question deserves a simple answer. I also stated that no additional comments were required, to keep the thing from going all ballistic, but that clearly was also "stupid" of me.

The fact that you choose not to vote is no problem for me.That very same abstinance is probably what got your current president elected.
Another tough choice ...red or blue.

Let's see something unique, like installing a Coyote, the 6.2 out of an SRT-8, a Lexus V-8, Nissan V-6, etc.... into a hot rod/fox body.[/QUOTE]

The core of this argument is and has always been the perceived cost of doing it. The fact that it's "different" is definitely not why a chevy ends up in a mustang.

Every engine you recommended as an innovative alternative is never gonna win any "cheaper to do it" swap arguments. And while in a mega dollar street rod project it'll work, in almost every case otherwise will exceed the actual worth of the fox mustang it would sit in.

That would seem pretty stupid to me.

 

[NIKwoaC]

Another tough choice ...red or blue.

View attachment 187579

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

View attachment 187578

That was pretty quick.

 

[NIKwoaC]

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

N8

I thought about it. I am sorry if the above seems a little arrogant.

I am guilty of having pit bull internet manners.

 

[03ghoststang]

Swaps done solely for racing only then sure thats ok but for your DD with ocassional visits to the track i dont think they are really worth it specially if you have to modify things here and there and most people will prefer to pay than do the job themselves given they dont have the proper tools or equipment needed or knowledge of what to do. I personally prefer SBF/BBF in a Ford and the SBC/BBC in a chevy.

With the mods i have done to my stang which i personally did the assembly, i take pride in my work knowing that with what i have done i can beat quite a few LS chevy's or keep up with them sure i know i need a S/C to complete my build and really put a hurting on some cars but the fact that my little 5.0L is beating higher displacement cars that are also heavier i like my odds with that.......

 

[N8Dogg98]

I can't see how you'd find yes or no stupid.

Because my response isn't as simple as yes/no. Ideally I like to see a chevy in a chevy and a ford in a ford. That said I don't think engine swaps are stupid either. For example, I think it would be bad a** to see a 4.4L supercharged cadillac engine (XLR-V and STS-V) under the hood of a fox.

Like I said earlier, ignore the after comment, if it bugs you. The fact that it's a simple question deserves a simple answer. I also stated that no additional comments were required, to keep the thing from going all ballistic, but that clearly was also "stupid" of me.

The after comment doesn't bother me in the least, I just have a problem voting yes/no when it isn't a simple yes/no answer.

The fact that you choose not to vote is no problem for me.That very same abstinance is probably what got your current president elected.

your little engine swap poll isn't remotely comparable to a presidential election. You must think you're really important...

Another tough choice ...red or blue.

Depends where the color is..

The core of this argument is and has always been the perceived cost of doing it. The fact that it's "different" is definitely not why a chevy ends up in a mustang.

I don't really care what the core of the argument is. I don't like seeing GM 350 engine swaps because they are everywhere. Go to any car show and you'll see a roadster that some guy likely spent 100K on building, WTF did they cheap out on the engine for. For another couple thousand bucks they could have had a unique engine under the hood instead of the standard run of the mill GM 350. If we're talking fox Mustangs, then I also think they should stick with Ford engine unless they are going for something unique.

Every engine you recommended as an innovative alternative is never gonna win any "cheaper to do it" swap arguments. And while in a mega dollar street rod project it'll work, in almost every case otherwise will exceed the actual worth of the fox mustang it would sit in.

That would seem pretty stupid to me.

Cost is irrelevent in this argument. You're run of the mill GM 350 is close enough in price to a Ford 347 when you factor in the cost and time involved in ensuring the motor mounts fit correctly, etc... If you're talking LSx, why not get a Coyote? The cost is comparable and the end result is better having a Ford engine in a Ford car especially when you consider the LSx and Coyote are actually comparable to one another.

As far as exceeding worth, isn't it safe to say that nearly every one of us with a Mustang has invested way more in mods than the car is worth? seems like moot point...

N8

I thought about it. I am sorry if the above seems a little arrogant.

I am guilty of having pit bull internet manners.

Yeah you dick, WTF

j/k, I enjoy the discussion

 

[BIGDATOWN]

I voted yes. Because I have a 468 BBC that is about to slide into a mustang either fox or sn. My money my choice. I love the cars but you will not beat a bbc in a fox with a 302 money for money

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

I voted yes. Because I have a 468 BBC that is about to slide into a mustang either fox or sn. My money my choice. I love the cars but you will not beat a bbc in a fox with a 302 money for money

Uh, no kidding, that's why you build a big block Ford

 

[2000xp8]

you will not beat a bbc in a fox with a 302 money for money

That's quite the claim without giving details about your engine like hp, heads, how much you spent.

A couple google searches i did for a 468 crate engine yielded pricing from $7200 to up past $15,000.
How exactly is that any cheaper than say a decent 427?

Of course it's your car do what you want. I'm not opposed to the swap, what i don't like is when people give BS reasons on why they do it.
Say you have a chevy engine or want one because those are the only reasons to do it.

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

It would be different if Ford never built a big block and the only way to get that many cubes were to go with a Chevy. My money my choice is fine, but dollar for dollar i bet i can build a BBF that's just as fast as your BBC. When you start throwing money out like that, it has nothing to do with what's cheaper or faster...you get what your wallet can handle to pay for regardless of what brand it is and it comes down to preference.

 

[1bad67sbf]

my buddy just got a junk yard 460 for $200 and put $3200 in it with a full rebuild and performance cam,intake, carb, dizzy, ect... TOTAL $3400 for a new fully built BBF. not the biggest ground pounder but it will with ease blow 44's loose in a parking lot with a locker in a 79 bronco

 

[90mustangGT]

Here is the problem with the 5.0HO Ford engine. For one, it's an old 80's smog motor. Much better than a 305 TPI Chevy engine, and it was a straight up BEAST in it's day, but since then there are younger much meaner and larger animals in the Jungle.

To make the 5.0HO engine run like the newer engines you are going to have to go through ever single part of that motor. It's like taking the short fat kid that gets his lunch money taken from the computer club and turning him into a Navy SEAL. This is going to take a lot of time, know how, and above all, COST.

On the other hand, we have and abundance of better engines that can be had for cheap. Lots of know how on how to swap them over. You could pull the 5.3 motor out of a Silverado and put it in just how it was in that truck and I doubt even the decent HCI combo guys will be able to walk away from you. Not to mention the street manors and probably 30mpg gas milege. I've seen a stock 6.0 LQ4 out of a Suburban with just a cam and a computer tune in a Foxbody.... talk about a Cobra killing monster.

What we do have is an awesome platform as far as the body. Today's cars are bulky and heavy. The Fox is light, and has a suspension that loves to accelerate. God forbid you crash it, but there isn't any of this bulk to haul along with you.

Unless it's a show car or something, nobody is going to be able to say anything if you blow their doors off. I'm looking into a 6.0 GM motor for my fox.

 

[mg92calypso]

[
To make the 5.0HO engine run like the newer engines you are going to have to go through ever single part of that motor. It's like taking the short fat kid that gets his lunch money taken from the computer club and turning him into a Navy SEAL. This is going to take a lot of time, know how, and above all, COST. ]

show me a motor build that doesnt require this type of treatment reguardless of mfg..... in addition show me a big block anything that will turn the RPMS that a small block is capable of..... show me a big block that DOESNT weigh half as much as the car. a "BUILT MOTOR" is exactly that, to make anything run you have to BUILD it, ford ...gm..chrysler..whoever they all use the same basic components and steps in the process to put the thing together CORRECTLY. you can make a mild built 5.0 run VERY WELL! on the other hand a big cube windsor based stroker will hands down out perform a built big block of simmilar size and components. seen it ....DONE it many times. its all in how much you have and are willing to spend and WHERE you spend it! to say breed swapping is justified because its cheaper to buy gm parts is rediculous. by the time you build the motor , buy the extra componnents needed to get the thing in there and make the drivetrain function as it should where is the money saved? EXTRA PARTS...EXTRA WEIGHT...EXTRA HEADACHE.... I guess im failing to see the bennefit?

 

[2000xp8]

[
To make the 5.0HO engine run like the newer engines you are going to have to go through ever single part of that motor. It's like taking the short fat kid that gets his lunch money taken from the computer club and turning him into a Navy SEAL. This is going to take a lot of time, know how, and above all, COST. ]

show me a motor build that doesnt require this type of treatment reguardless of mfg..... in addition show me a big block anything that will turn the RPMS that a small block is capable of..... show me a big block that DOESNT weigh half as much as the car. a "BUILT MOTOR" is exactly that, to make anything run you have to BUILD it, ford ...gm..chrysler..whoever they all use the same basic components and steps in the process to put the thing together CORRECTLY. you can make a mild built 5.0 run VERY WELL! on the other hand a big cube windsor based stroker will hands down out perform a built big block of simmilar size and components. seen it ....DONE it many times. its all in how much you have and are willing to spend and WHERE you spend it! to say breed swapping is justified because its cheaper to buy gm parts is rediculous. by the time you build the motor , buy the extra componnents needed to get the thing in there and make the drivetrain function as it should where is the money saved? EXTRA PARTS...EXTRA WEIGHT...EXTRA HEADACHE.... I guess im failing to see the bennefit?

The ones that justify it by citing costs are just delusional. No matter how hard they try to prove their point, there is better argument to just use a ford engine.
A good 347 built properly from a stock 302 will run 10's, how much quicker you going to go with a street car? And that's a setup you can still choose to keep good handling if you like.
Good luck with that with a chevy big block engine.

As said earlier, just say you like chevy engines and you like the fox platform, nothing wrong with that.
Just don't make the stupid argument that it's cheaper.

 

[ratio411]

I love all sorts of American V8 rear wheel drive cars... (see avatar)
But I don't believe in mixing them up.

 

[90mustangGT]

I see your point, but I am making reference to some of the GM Gen III SBC's, (LS series). The only place where you might have to spend more is getting it in check. The 6.0's are about 400hp/400tq in stock form with excelent street manners. They don't weigh much. The aluminum heads flow well, the steel block and rotating assembly is stronger. How much does it cost to build a stroker with good heads? Kind of gets pricey especially with a strong block. The GM 6.0 is not a big block, weights about the same as a 351 with aluminum heads.

 

[2000xp8]

I see your point, but I am making reference to some of the GM Gen III SBC's, (LS series). The only place where you might have to spend more is getting it in check. The 6.0's are about 400hp/400tq in stock form with excelent street manners. They don't weigh much. The aluminum heads flow well, the steel block and rotating assembly is stronger. How much does it cost to build a stroker with good heads? Kind of gets pricey especially with a strong block. The GM 6.0 is not a big block, weights about the same as a 351 with aluminum heads.

I look at it this way.
With an engine that i'm about $6000-6500 deep in, including mods (a meter and pulley) i made 480/500 rwhp.

Let's assume any swap requires a new trans, k member and other things to make it work, for arguments sake we'll call that a wash financially.

How do you beat the $6500 for that much power with an LS engine?
A brief ebay look suggests you have to pay about $5000 for anything decent and fully dressed LS engine, and that's a low number, for a fairly low hp ls1, forget the ls6.
Is is possible to add over 125rwhp to that engine to meet 480 with the missing $1500?

I'm not going to pretend like i know about modifying LS engines, because i don't.
But i do know how to use Summit's website, and doing a h/c/i setup still costs at least as much as it does for a ford engine, like 3 grand by the time it's done.

 

[mg92calypso]

I look at it this way.
With an engine that i'm about $6000-6500 deep in, including mods (a meter and pulley) i made 480/500 rwhp.

Let's assume any swap requires a new trans, k member and other things to make it work, for arguments sake we'll call that a wash financially.

How do you beat the $6500 for that much power with an LS engine?
A brief ebay look suggests you have to pay about $5000 for anything decent and fully dressed LS engine, and that's a low number, for a fairly low hp ls1, forget the ls6.
Is is possible to add over 125rwhp to that engine to meet 480 with the missing $1500?

I'm not going to pretend like i know about modifying LS engines, because i don't.
But i do know how to use Summit's website, and doing a h/c/i setup still costs at least as much as it does for a ford engine, like 3 grand by the time it's done.

a friend of mine has a bone stock 5.0 in his 91 gt with a 70 mm turbo kit. not even an aftermarket throttle body and on the dyno put down 468 rwh. motor had 163,00 on it when the kit was installed and tuned in columbus ohio for a grand total of 2600.00 thats well below the 6000.00 mark on a otherwise bone stock motor. add some induction and let it breathe and you are over 500 rwh. im doing it right now on a high compression 306 with trick flow stage 2 kit. 75mm t-body and egr spacer. any given gear...any given time destroys the tires. even at highway speeds. check out ON3PERFORMANCE in COLUMBUS OHIO. dedicated to mustangs af all years. still has street manners, power when you want it. drive it anywhere 25 miles per gallon. handeling like it is supposed to in corners, flat out flies when you want it!

 

[tannerc91gt]

A little off topic, but I doubt your buddies 500+hp stock longblock holds together all that long...

And the LSx series makes pretty insane numbers using factory GM heads, a FAST intake, and a TS cam especially compared to a 302 with windsor heads, a TFS R, and a custom cam.

I'm not ragging on fords, I obviously love them as much as everyone else on the board here but we're comparing apples and oranges. From a ford fan perspective I can understand people being against the swaps, but from a foxbody fans perspective, I think it's that much more awesome that drivelines are progressing this far and people still want to throw them into an old fox.