there are single stage flat paints. hotrod flatz is one, there are others out there. they do not require a CC to flatten. I am thinking about a flat color as well, as I am doing all my own body work. It is my first car and I figured I won't be able to get it perfect. not sure what to do about the chrome yet. The chrome would look good on the contrast of a flat paint, but I am thinking about painting it all too. Was thinking a blue or green for the body and black for the trim and chrome.
Opinions needed on Paint ideas
- Thread starter pcarlson
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Thank god for rationality.
I didn't post this here for people to tell me "that's not possible". I posted it to get opinions on the SCHEME and whether or not it would look good.
You're wrong.
He is fixing the rust. What is it that you don't understand about that statement?
And for your materials... how much of that was the cost for your base coat and how much for your clear coat? Because the paint I am looking at is much cheaper than any base coat... and you don't have to put a CC on it. So once again, you're off base. Please just let me know what you feel the concept would look like, I'm not looking for someone to explain to me that a $2300 paintjob is going to be done on the cheap (duh).
CraigMBA
New Member
Look,
1. I'm in the industry. I see more technicans and more shops in a week than you do in a lifetime.
2. I'm in SoCal. I know what good labor costs. Most of my customers won't do one of these cars because they are so labor intensive they refuse to quote them because the customer isn't going to pay $15K to respray a "toy" car.
3. I have one of these cars - the same one since 1984. I have a good understanding on how many hours it takes to "fix" a rusted out car door.
4. This is the fourth time mine was painted. The first two times I did it, the third was a disaster that cost $1800 in 1993. This time will cost me more than $12K when I get done, it won't be perfect, and I got a monster deal.
Your "guy" is going to make about $40 an hour doing your sidejob. That is pretty standard for bodymen in SoCal doing side work. If your materials cost $1000 that leaves $1300 for the painter and the bodyman. Even if he is only getting $20 a hour, you can't do one of these jobs in 65 hours if you expect it to be any good. And they absolutely can't do it in 35.
There's expensive, fair, cheap, and (OMG he can't get it done at that price) too cheap. Don't be suprised when the car comes back not exactly the way you expected, and your timeframe isn't met, the guy asks for more money, and you find other "suprises" at the end.
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but don't say I didn't warn you.
1. I'm in the industry. I see more technicans and more shops in a week than you do in a lifetime.
2. I'm in SoCal. I know what good labor costs. Most of my customers won't do one of these cars because they are so labor intensive they refuse to quote them because the customer isn't going to pay $15K to respray a "toy" car.
3. I have one of these cars - the same one since 1984. I have a good understanding on how many hours it takes to "fix" a rusted out car door.
4. This is the fourth time mine was painted. The first two times I did it, the third was a disaster that cost $1800 in 1993. This time will cost me more than $12K when I get done, it won't be perfect, and I got a monster deal.
Your "guy" is going to make about $40 an hour doing your sidejob. That is pretty standard for bodymen in SoCal doing side work. If your materials cost $1000 that leaves $1300 for the painter and the bodyman. Even if he is only getting $20 a hour, you can't do one of these jobs in 65 hours if you expect it to be any good. And they absolutely can't do it in 35.
There's expensive, fair, cheap, and (OMG he can't get it done at that price) too cheap. Don't be suprised when the car comes back not exactly the way you expected, and your timeframe isn't met, the guy asks for more money, and you find other "suprises" at the end.
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but don't say I didn't warn you.
My timeframe is "as long as it takes for you to finish this" because... that saves me money! You're in the industry, you should know this.
My car will come back exactly as I expect because I know what I am getting when I pay for things I purchase. As I have said before... I HAVE SEEN THE CARS THAT THESE GUYS HAVE PAINTED. You're in the industry, don't you think that past work is a GREAT indication of future work?
So... would you agree or disagree with this statement: If a painter is able to complete a '67 coupe with the same issues as mine WITH a BC/CC paintjob for around $3000 that I'm happy with, it would be more than reasonable to assume he can do a satin black for $2500 that will also be good enough for me. After all, the $3000 looks great IMO.
This is really starting to get on my nerves. Read the title and first post. Did I ask you to criticize what I am going to pay for paint?
I'm sorry that I don't meet your expectations of putting a $28000 paint job on my car.
PS - the "rusted out door" you reference is a good case of using an extreme esxample to prove your point. It's been a SoCal car all it's life and has 1 small hole in each fender and 1 in each door. Hardly the work you claim it to be.
CraigMBA
New Member
What are you planning on using for materials that don't require clear?
Those "small holes" are five hours per hole fixes if the guy gets it clean, straight, and doesn't have a gallon of filler per door.
My $1800 job was supposed to take a month, but I made the mistake of telling him "take your time". It turned out worse and didn't get done for two years.
BTW, my car is straight outta Fresno and has the same rust in the same spot. Or at least it did.
Those "small holes" are five hours per hole fixes if the guy gets it clean, straight, and doesn't have a gallon of filler per door.
My $1800 job was supposed to take a month, but I made the mistake of telling him "take your time". It turned out worse and didn't get done for two years.
BTW, my car is straight outta Fresno and has the same rust in the same spot. Or at least it did.
Thanks for the replies, Craig. If I came across as argumentative it's just because I didn't want to get into the "you can't pay that much for a paint job".
If you could chime in on the rest of my idea it would be very much appreciated.
I was thinking something like this for paint:
SEM Hot Rod Black Kit - HR010
That will be substantially cheaper than any base coat that would also require a clear. I just need to find the right "satin black" in something similar to that product.
Quick question, Craig. What would you do about painting the trim? My painter doesn't want that work as he believes that nothing will stick for long on the chrome, etc.
Will sanding it really well so that the paint sticks actually work? I've been getting conflicting opinions... some say that all of the chrome needs to come off, some say that as long as you scuff and prep it well enough it will be fine. I can always get the parts sandblasted then painted if need be but I'd rather not.
Do you have any guess as to the cost for someone to paint all of the trim? I would drop it off for them and expect it back with a nice shiny gloss black finish. The parts I'm looking to paint would be the front/rear bumpers, reverse lights, all Grille trim, all "Mustang" lettering, etc.
If you could chime in on the rest of my idea it would be very much appreciated.
I was thinking something like this for paint:
SEM Hot Rod Black Kit - HR010
That will be substantially cheaper than any base coat that would also require a clear. I just need to find the right "satin black" in something similar to that product.
Quick question, Craig. What would you do about painting the trim? My painter doesn't want that work as he believes that nothing will stick for long on the chrome, etc.
Will sanding it really well so that the paint sticks actually work? I've been getting conflicting opinions... some say that all of the chrome needs to come off, some say that as long as you scuff and prep it well enough it will be fine. I can always get the parts sandblasted then painted if need be but I'd rather not.
Do you have any guess as to the cost for someone to paint all of the trim? I would drop it off for them and expect it back with a nice shiny gloss black finish. The parts I'm looking to paint would be the front/rear bumpers, reverse lights, all Grille trim, all "Mustang" lettering, etc.
I'm doing what you're doing (but you knew that because I replied to your thread on VMF) so I've dug around. According to the guys on hotrodders.com and HAMB they basically DA the chrome and trim, then use build prime over it to smooth it out. In the process of body work I've spilled 2k primer on the un-prepped chrome bumper and it's hard as hell to scrape off already.
I ruled out SEM - $60 a quart? I think Dupont is half that, and Hotrod Flatz is even cheaper. There's also Kirker Hotrod Black for $50/.75 gallon + quart activator for a sprayable gallon.
Satin is probably less forgiving than gloss black, IMO. Satin reflects one thing the most: light. Gloss reflects everything - the ground, trees, sky, you, buildings, etc. If you had, say a golf ball sized (not deep) dent, which surface would you notice it on more?
edit - stupid router reset. Anyway..
Don't try to shortcut the block sand process even though it's "only" satin paint. When my car was still satin before the epoxy primer faded I could see a few dings near body creases that I'd say I would fix later. As I wash the car obviously it got shiny because of the temporary "clear coat" the water provides, and these little dents surprisingly went away because the reflections were so busy. A nice clear coat can also easily hide scratches and pinholes, single stage satin can't.
I ruled out SEM - $60 a quart? I think Dupont is half that, and Hotrod Flatz is even cheaper. There's also Kirker Hotrod Black for $50/.75 gallon + quart activator for a sprayable gallon.
Satin is probably less forgiving than gloss black, IMO. Satin reflects one thing the most: light. Gloss reflects everything - the ground, trees, sky, you, buildings, etc. If you had, say a golf ball sized (not deep) dent, which surface would you notice it on more?
edit - stupid router reset. Anyway..
Don't try to shortcut the block sand process even though it's "only" satin paint. When my car was still satin before the epoxy primer faded I could see a few dings near body creases that I'd say I would fix later. As I wash the car obviously it got shiny because of the temporary "clear coat" the water provides, and these little dents surprisingly went away because the reflections were so busy. A nice clear coat can also easily hide scratches and pinholes, single stage satin can't.
Platonic Solid
Founding Member
I probably know about as much about Redondo Beach as you know about Connecticut. No need to be a dill-weed about it. The average shop rate employing legal documented workers may indeed be higher in Redondo Beach, I have no idea. I consider 2 hrs and 15 mins. from the Mexican border to be very close to very cheap labor. The posters you are perceiving as "haters" are really just providing experienced insight intended to help you make an informed decision.
CraigMBA
New Member
You find a white guy in a body shop, he'll be a excon and a recovering substance abuser.
And he won't be worth a s***.
Everytime. At least in SoCal.
And he won't be worth a s***.
Everytime. At least in SoCal.
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