Semi-daily driver with trick flow kit

[dstang01]

Hey guys, its that time of year again, the car is off the road for the year and I've saved enough to splurge. I was planning a gt40p oriented setup in the past, but decided to hold off and save a little more for an aluminum setup (think it was a good choice). In the spring, summer and early fall, the car is my main transportation (to work, etc) so I'm looking for something streetable, nice torque curve (low end), 15+ mpg, all motor, and will push my vert into the 13s (looking for that figurative 300 rwhp). The easiest option is a trickflow street heat kit, tuned with a quarterhorse (I'm a bit of a nerd when it comes to playing with this kind of thing). For those that have a well tuned trick flow kit, or know of how it acts, would this setup (particularly the tfs1 cam) provide the manners I'm looking for or would the extra money spent on a custom cam be worthwhile?

 

[Grn92LX]

I would go with the custom cam. But to answer your question, I did have the tickflow h,c,i set up as a daily driver years ago and it was fine. I will be even better since you'll be using a tuner. That way you can tune out any hot/cold idle/start up problems and tune in a nice safe a/f and timing table.

 

[Venom351R]

That kit will get you in the 300 RWHP range. The cam is very streetable its nothing radical.

 

[final5-0]

I'd go the the mid length runner upper to extend the power band a bit

I'd also go LT's for the bump in low/mid range torque

I am a fan of custom cams (see sig)
and
If you were gonna do that

Don't buy ANYTHING
until
You talk to your cam Guru :Word:

Grady

 

[dstang01]

Grady, I've marvelled at your setup for years because it is my ideal setup. Nice torquey high-velocity AFR 165s, custom cam, self tuned, and all the bolt on goodies I have similar goals as you did, except instead of a full out weekend toy mine will double as a semi-daily driver (ie: I'll need to drive a few miles to work and from work on weekdays for 4 months). I've read your thread where you explain that you find your combo a little over the edge as far as daily driving goes, even so it has a custom cam and spot-on tune. This sort of discourages me, because if such an ideal setup is still a little too hot to be a daily driver, how could the trick flow OTS kit possibly work out?

Two more questions for the guru's while I'm at it...

1) I understand the EGR has its benefits (preventing part throttle det, lowers combustion temps), but the Quarterhorse recommends wiring your wideband sensors into the EGR imput, thus deleting it. The other option is to buy a stand alone USB imput to connect the wideband to the laptop separately, and synch it with binary editor. Is keeping the EGR worth it? I also have to pass a sniffer if this is any consideration.

2) I know this is a personal sorta question, but lets be honest. FTI or Camshaft Innovations for my goals? I hear ed curtis grinds a tried and true cam, but Jay Allen uses newer technology in his profiles.

 

[nmcgrawj]

2) I know this is a personal sorta question, but lets be honest. FTI or Camshaft Innovations for my goals? I hear ed curtis grinds a tried and true cam, but Jay Allen uses newer technology in his profiles.

LOL so Jay's cams arent tried and true? And Ed's cams are tried and true through old technology?


You cant lose with either. Im not sure of how many people have experience with both....so really, who's opinion matters? You will probably only find guys who are happy with Ed's cams.....or guys happy with Jay's cams......find someone who says Jay couldnt grind a cam that Ed could grind or vice versa, Then maybe you'd have a winner. Otherwise you are just asking who has used who...and its a popularity vote right? And on this site that probably goes to Ed. But on another, it may be Jay. And on another its neither.



Send em both a cam info card and see who gets back with you first

 

[final5-0]

Lemme be a bit more specific with some details

Grady, I've marvelled at your setup for years because it is my ideal setup. Nice torquey high-velocity AFR 165s, custom cam, self tuned, and all the bolt on goodies

I've looked at a lot of OEM shortblock combo dyno curves :Word:

A good bit of the time I do produce more low/mid range torque
and
Usually ... it comes on sooner in the power band

Not tryin to be braggin

Here is some info about why I feel it came out as it did

I don't believe its any one part or thing such as .......
The heads
The cam
The LT's
etc

I can tell you
that kind of power band was considered when planning the combo

I went with a focus of such a set of curves OVER peak power

This was made known to Ed each time we talked about the combo
before making all decisions final

Heads are stud mount which means 58 cc chambers
and
They've been cut a bit to up the squeeze a bit more

Cam ... of course ... was designed to produce those goals

Tune ... aggressive spark curve adds to the torque a good bit

You need to know I worked a good bit
with the ... fine tunin of ......

Spark
Amount of fuel
and
Me being a Texas boy
I do have the good fortune of being able to run 93 grade gas

anyway ... lets move on

I have similar goals as you did, except instead of a full out weekend toy mine will double as a semi-daily driver (ie: I'll need to drive a few miles to work and from work on weekdays for 4 months). I've read your thread where you explain that you find your combo a little over the edge as far as daily driving goes, even so it has a custom cam and spot-on tune.

I do wanna be careful to explain in detail here

I will say this ... I'm a bit on the picky side of most things
and
Thats goes double when talkin about my hot rod :Word:

First of all ........
I could drive my little GT ... EVERY DAY ... if I wanted to
but
It does have some draw backs I feel are too much for daily use

It will get over 20 mpg at highway speeds
but
It does suck down that 93 grade around town

It does have a very stock like driving manner around town
but
It does have a fairly good amount of cam lope
and
It goes without saying ... that attracts a good bit of attention

Now ... you talk about the ... custom cam

If you might be a thinkin I chose it for .......
good street manners
or
playin nice with the pcm

I do wanna make it clear I chose it for makin the type of power
band we talked about above

I did the tune to make the combo not have any drivability issues

This sort of discourages me, because if such an ideal setup is still a little too hot to be a daily driver, how could the trick flow OTS kit possibly work out?

Many have done that kit with dd's

Two more questions for the guru's while I'm at it...

1) I understand the EGR has its benefits (preventing part throttle det, lowers combustion temps), but the Quarterhorse recommends wiring your wideband sensors into the EGR imput, thus deleting it. The other option is to buy a stand alone USB imput to connect the wideband to the laptop separately, and synch it with binary editor. Is keeping the EGR worth it? I also have to pass a sniffer if this is any consideration.

My humble combo passes state of Texas sniffer AND dyno roller
thingie testing each year with no probs and has ALL emissions
in place and working

As for egr ... I did a switch kinda deal which allows for .......
one way is wide band and the other is egr

2) I know this is a personal sorta question, but lets be honest. FTI or Camshaft Innovations for my goals? I hear ed curtis grinds a tried and true cam, but Jay Allen uses newer technology in his profiles.

I can say Ed gave me the results I asked for and more :Word:

I can say Jay has many happy customers as well

Hope this helps
and
If you have any more Q's ... feel free to ask away

Grady

 

[dstang01]

Thanks for taking the time to write out that insightful reply It does clear things up quite a bit.

To clarify, you feel that the tune is 100% responsible for streetability and manners, and the cam is responisble for the power band? So theoretically, if you would have started with a trickflow kit instead of your combo, you would have been able to optimize the PCM to net you similar manners? (What I'm getting at is, with a good tune an OTS cam and custom cam can have relatively the same streetability, except the custom cam ties things together better for a nicer power curve, correct?)

I'm not quite sure I understand how you've rigged up the wideband imput keeping the EGR in tact. Do you have it on a switch, so that you can datalog with the widebands (thus disabling the EGR), and then switch back to the EGR afterwards?

 

[final5-0]

Thanks for taking the time to write out that insightful reply It does clear things up quite a bit.

To clarify, you feel that the tune is 100% responsible for streetability and manners, and the cam is responisble for the power band? So theoretically, if you would have started with a trickflow kit instead of your combo, you would have been able to optimize the PCM to net you similar manners? (What I'm getting at is, with a good tune an OTS cam and custom cam can have relatively the same streetability, except the custom cam ties things together better for a nicer power curve, correct?)

I'm not quite sure I understand how you've rigged up the wideband imput keeping the EGR in tact. Do you have it on a switch, so that you can datalog with the widebands (thus disabling the EGR), and then switch back to the EGR afterwards?

Yes ... a tune is W A Y more than ... just WOT for max power

You get in there and adjust for the changes all your hot rod parts
caused which made the pcm not be able to cope

Yes ... the cam is a good part of how the power band works
but
There certainly are other things that were done which had an effect

LT's ... help the low end
Upped Compression ... helps all across the range
Mid length runner upper ... helps extend the range
etc

See what I mean ... It all works together

Now ... Tuning for drivability

Honestly ... With most reasonable street/strip cams
and
I'd go out on a limb and say ..........

Even with a cam that is a bit radical ...............

Someone who knows his way around in that little silver box can make
most any combo behave like a little stocker :Word:

Cam Lope ... Believe it or Not

I hosed around with injector timing
and
I was able to tame mine down a good bit

If you have ever used the idle link in my sig to listen

True ... you can hear it does have a bit of a lope
but
That lope is ....... A Steady Lope

which I do point out

I worked a good bit to make it be that way

Grady

 

[Chythar]

Sorry Grady, no can do on the clip - didn't you hear that Geocities is gone for good?

 

[final5-0]

Sorry Grady, no can do on the clip - didn't you hear that Geocities is gone for good?

No I did not know that

I had some tuning stuff there that helped some peeps over the past
few years

Tweecer based with older software
but still
Old or Not ... The info was valid

Had a bunch of pics and data there as well

O Well

Grady