Synthetic oil a "waste" of money?

[BuffaloZone]

If some people think Synthetic oils are a "waste" of fancy money, do they also think 87 octane gas is every bit as good as 93 octane on modified engines? Proof that cheap-O oil is just as good as a premium synthetic oil...or do they just have short pockets?

Amsoil. Absolutely.

 

[jstreet0204]

apples and oranges. The octane rating of fuel does not make it better. If your car is not tuned for higher octane fuel, it can do more harm than good.

 

[bham_gt]

Proof that cheap-O oil is just as good as a premium synthetic oil...or do they just have short pockets?

I've actually seen proof that synthetic oil does make a difference. I've seen engines torn apart that ran only synthetic oil and ones that ran regular oil. The ones that ran synthetic oil still looked brand new. There weren't even really any burn spots on the heads or anything. The ones that ran regular oil were all burned looking. Synthetic oil definitely does make a difference.

 

[BuffaloZone]

apples and oranges. The octane rating of fuel does not make it better. If your car is not tuned for higher octane fuel, it can do more harm than good.

That's why I wanted to mention "modified" engines instead of stock. When mine was new it did great on 89 octane, but now it is tuned for 93 octane. And when I get my KB I'm sure it'll be tuned for at least 91 octane.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

If you are referring to my comments on another thread the point I was trying to make is that Motorcraft 5W-20 is the best choice for most people. If you diagree with that assessment perhaps it is Ford that you should be arguing with. I am simply going by the manufacturer's recommendation which I have found to be correct 99.999999% of the time.

BTW, Motorcraft 5W-20 is a synthetic blend.

Additional info from the BullittArchive Mustang Oracle:
http://www.bullittarchive.com/html/modules/articles/article.php?id=37

 

[newstangman]

I've actually seen proof that synthetic oil does make a difference. I've seen engines torn apart that ran only synthetic oil and ones that ran regular oil. The ones that ran synthetic oil still looked brand new. There weren't even really any burn spots on the heads or anything. The ones that ran regular oil were all burned looking. Synthetic oil definitely does make a difference.

I canshow you my 1958 Cadillac - Non-synthetic oil (Penzoil or Quaker State) changed every 2,000 miles w/filter since new. No sludge, varnish or visable wear. Burns zero oil at 2,ooo miles. The KEY is to change your oil often to remove the acids that build up as a resultant of combustion. Acid is a killer and it is suspended in synthetic and non-synthetic oil. Also, ALWAYS change your oil when it is HOT to remove the acids!!! Both synthetic and non-synthetic oils can do the job - the KEY is to keep your engine clean on the inside via 2,000 miles oil changes!

 

[1992 2.3LX]

Synthetic oil is a waste of money if you change your oil every 3,000 or less miles like myself.

 

[StangPro]

If you are referring to my comments on another thread the point I was trying to make is that Motorcraft 5W-20 is the best choice for most people. If you diagree with that assessment perhaps it is Ford that you should be arguing with. I am simply going by the manufacturer's recommendation which I have found to be correct 99.999999% of the time.

BTW, Motorcraft 5W-20 is a synthetic blend.

Additional info from the BullittArchive Mustang Oracle:
http://www.bullittarchive.com/html/modules/articles/article.php?id=37

Ford went to the 5-20 blend strictly for emissions reasons. There is some evidence that this oil is not good for engine life.

 

[jstreet0204]

That's why I wanted to mention "modified" engines instead of stock. When mine was new it did great on 89 octane, but now it is tuned for 93 octane. And when I get my KB I'm sure it'll be tuned for at least 91 octane.

Still, apples and oranges. Your car will run the same on dino oil as it will on synthetic. My point was that the comparison bewteen oils and octane rating doesn't make much sense.

 

[rjstaaf]

I canshow you my 1958 Cadillac - Non-synthetic oil (Penzoil or Quaker State) changed every 2,000 miles w/filter since new. No sludge, varnish or visable wear. Burns zero oil at 2,ooo miles. The KEY is to change your oil often to remove the acids that build up as a resultant of combustion. Acid is a killer and it is suspended in synthetic and non-synthetic oil. Also, ALWAYS change your oil when it is HOT to remove the acids!!! Both synthetic and non-synthetic oils can do the job - the KEY is to keep your engine clean on the inside via 2,000 miles oil changes!

This is really only true for those drivers that do frequent short trips where the motor does not have time to reach operating temperature. The contamination comes from unburnt fuel and water that accumulates in the oil. This usually gets mostly burned off if the car is driven on trips long enough to get the motor to operating temperature.

Below is an oil analysis from my GT with Mobil 1 at 4950 miles. You will notice that even after 4950 miles there is no moisture and fuel contamination is miniscule. I could have gone longer with the oil but, with Mobil 1 I usually go 5K.

 

[newstangman]

Ford went to the 5-20 blend strictly for emissions reasons. There is some evidence that this oil is not good for engine life.

That's a bunch of BS!!! The 5-20 blend provides slightly better gas mileage than a heavier motor oil. Engine oil has ZERO to do with emissions!!! I am using the Motorcraft 5-20 and it works just fine!

 

[BuffaloZone]

If you are referring to my comments on another thread the point I was trying to make is that Motorcraft 5W-20 is the best choice for most people.

Most "Stock" people? Or people that *don't* drive HP Mustangs?

If you diagree with that assessment perhaps it is Ford that you should be arguing with.

You actually think Ford would have the stones to say that non-synthetic oil gets the job done...as well as a premium synthetic oil? If you disagree with that assessment perhaps it is Amsoil and Mobil1 that you should be arguing with.

I am simply going by the manufacturer's recommendation which I have found to be correct 99.999999% of the time.

I'm going with: "You get what you pay for" - Hope you don't think the "manufacturer's recommendation" OEM Goodyear tires = "teh win" compared to other *superior* tires.

BTW, Motorcraft 5W-20 is a synthetic blend.

And the pricier Corvette doesn't use a "blend" oil - perhaps if the Mustang cost 45 or 50 grand they'd come straight from the manufacturer with full synthetic motor oil?

 

[BuffaloZone]

Still, apples and oranges. Your car will run the same on dino oil as it will on synthetic.

Even when people can prove more RWHP with synthetics...and cooler temps? Why is dino oil so cheap?

My point was that the comparison bewteen oils and octane rating doesn't make much sense.

So...you use 87 octane fuel in your Saleen...and you wouldn't even try to compare the 87 octane to 93 octane?
Why is 87 octane cheaper than 93?

 

[jstreet0204]

Even when people can prove more RWHP with synthetics...and cooler temps? Why is dino oil so cheap?

You are not likely to see enough of a difference to measure. The benefit is in its ability to last longer without breaking down.

So...you use 87 octane fuel in your Saleen...and you wouldn't even try to compare the 87 octane to 93 octane?
Why is 87 octane cheaper than 93?

Cars are tuned around an octane rating. If you run 93 on a stock mustang tuned for 87 you are likely to lose power, and develop carbon buildup. So in this case 87 is better. And no I run 93 because my car requires it. My car also requires yellow touch up paint which cost more because you can't get it just anywhere. That doesn't make it better than blue touch up paint. I am not debating that synthetic oils have their benefit. That is all I run. Again my point is that you are comparing apples to oranges. A better comparison might have been detergents in different brands of fuel.

 

[Kronos]

I think its all based on prefernce and lifestyle people should get what they think is best for their situation
I use penzoil and i don't have a problem with it. my friend uses Royal Purple the funny thing is i can beat him in the 1/8 mile

 

[BuffaloZone]

You are not likely to see enough of a difference to measure. The benefit is in its ability to last longer without breaking down.

Even when a torn down engine can be measured with nearly zero wear on a high mileage synthetic oiled motor, but a dino oiled motor can show quite a bit of wear? You use Synthetic oil, of course, even when "You are not likely to see enough of a difference to measure" ?

Cars are tuned around an octane rating.

That's why I started this thread with a "modified" engine?

If you run 93 on a stock mustang tuned for 87 you are likely to lose power, and develop carbon buildup. So in this case 87 is better. And no I run 93 because my car requires it.

Just like I mentioned how my "stock" tuned motor ran real sweet on 89 ["pinged" on the cheapie 87] octane, but now I'm tuned for 93 ["pings" on 91] octane.

My car also requires yellow touch up paint which cost more because you can't get it just anywhere. That doesn't make it better than blue touch up paint.

Better for the mere fact that you wouldn't even consider slopping blue paint on your yellow car - just like 93 octane is better than 87 for your car.

I am not debating that synthetic oils have their benefit. That is all I run. Again my point is that you are comparing apples to oranges. A better comparison might have been detergents in different brands of fuel.

Oranges and Bananas don't Look the same - don't Smell the same - don't Cost the same - don't Taste the same....just the way that Synthetic and Dino oil doesn't Look the same - don't Smell the same - don't Cost the same - don't Taste the same....

 

[2001sleeper]

synthetic oils are designed to last longer and that is where they shine and prove superior. if you have a modified engine and religously change your oil around 2500-3000 miles a regular oil will be just fine. my stang is blown and i use the motorcraft blend with good results. the lower viscosity of a full synthetic oil is prone to more blow-by as boost increases. There are numerous arguements as to which oil is better, but where you stand is how you treat your car and what your specific needs are. don't be a follower and go on hearsay, understand the principles behind your individual engine and behind the oil you choose.

 

[BuffaloZone]

synthetic oils are designed to last longer and that is where they shine and prove superior. if you have a modified engine and religously change your oil around 2500-3000 miles a regular oil will be just fine. my stang is blown and i use the motorcraft blend with good results. the lower viscosity of a full synthetic oil is prone to more blow-by as boost increases. There are numerous arguements as to which oil is better, but where you stand is how you treat your car and what your specific needs are. don't be a follower and go on hearsay, understand the principles behind your individual engine and behind the oil you choose.

Exactly. That's why I wasn't 100% super "sold" on synthetic oils until I saw an OHC 4 cylinder that always used Mobil1 and always had cam lobes that looked as pretty as chrome...until it switched to regular dino cheapo oil just for *1* oil change. Within 3,000 miles, the pretty cam lobes already started to get some real ugly blue burned patterns on them.

 

[Blue70]

With all of the data collected, the computer on the AutoDyn did its whirring and grinding and spit out a chart that was quite revealing (see chart in sidebar article). The results were fairly definitive and clear-cut. The synthetic oil produced more horsepower (Royal Purple was used in this experiment). In this test, the peak power gain was shown to be in the range of 8-plus hp.

The test was repeated to ensure absolute integrity of the findings, and the results were the same—the synthetic proved to be a more successful producer of power.

I'll take 8HP for a few dollars more a quart of oil...
I've seen gains of over 10 HP by changing rearend and trans fluid too.

I dare you to find a better dollar per HP ratio!!!

Just think of all the money people spend here on parts that might give them 10 or less HP (Intakes, TB's, LT's, ect)

And it cuts down on friction and wear...How can you lose?

 

[COramprat]

From experience I'd say syns are worth the money. My stepdad uses Royal Purple in all of his vehicles and has had over 200K on a in-line 6 Ford truck and I'm on 140k on my moms old Probe that he put nothing but RP in. But as long as you change regularly then any oil would do. You can get a little more mileage out of syns which is why I use it. Othewise I would be doing oil changes every month since I drive 3000 miles a month.