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Discussion in '2.3L (N/A & Turbo) Tech' started by Red_LX, May 5, 2002.


  1. goland55

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  2. Red

    Red
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  3. Red

    Red
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  4. 140cilx

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    Head Gasket Replacement

    The best quick headgasket replacement for 2.3's by SVO1:

    I Drained the radiator ( but did not remove it) pulled the fan out of the way, pulled the cover and dropped the timing belt.. I then unbolted the exhaust manifold ( left it bolted to the turbo/downpipe and I wired it up for a little support) Yanked the throttle body/upper intake. I then pulled the Valve cover, Head bolts, Unhooked the Sensors under the intake/fuel lines, and the oil feed line to turbo..
    I popped the head loose with a couple small taps from my deadblow, then being able to use the intake for a bit of leverage hoisted it out on my own.. I always worry about TDC etc when I install the timing belt.. I put it back together that way I took it apart. I did re-use the headbolts, and My ford Shop manual had a Chart for re-using them ( typically twice) and it is back and running fine..

    from SVO1 (04/23/02)
     
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  5. 140cilx

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    Oil Pan Removal (with engine still in car)

    To remove the oil pan "in-chassis", follow these steps:

    1. Raise the car and place it on jack stands.

    2. Drain the oil (seems obvious, but I've seen people forget and they're soooo embarrassed when they get soaked).

    3. Remove the motor-mount nuts and raise the motor as high as you can - support it under the crank pulley with a stand and a block of wood (might wanna take the trigger wire off the solenoid so you don't accidentally bump the starter and drop the motor).

    4. Disconnect the strg. shaft from the rack and pinion at the "rag" joint and tap it upward and out of the way (it's telescopic to prevent you from being impaled).

    5. Take all 8 bolts out that attach the front crossmember to the "frame" (it won't fall - trust me). The bolts have a torx head, but you can use a standard 6-point socket.

    6. Remove the four bolts holding the anti-sway bar brkts to the frame and let the bar hang.

    7. Drive a wooden wedge between the rear of the crossmember and one side of the frame (this will not only lower it, as it compresses the susp springs which is what's holding it up, but it will usually slide forward as well.

    8. Remove the starter.

    9. Drop the pan down low enough to disconnect the oil pump from the block, allowing it to drop in the pan (you'll need an 8mm 12-pt socket for the pump body and a 14mm for the pickup support.

    10. Slide the pan out the back (assuming it didn't already fall on yer head, lol).

    FROM RAY OVER IN TURBOFORD.ORG
     
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  6. GTPhreak

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  7. GTPhreak

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  8. Teen'93stang5.0

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    it was august 2001:nice:
     
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  9. Brantley

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    The other day I found an article on the Volvo DOHC head conversion:

    merkurtech.com
     
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  10. AdamJ

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    Per4mance Fords

    -2.3L Registry
    -Tech Articles
    -Wiring Diagrams & Reference Info
    -4tek Resource

     
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  11. 140cilx

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    TURBOCHARGING YOUR NATURALLY ASPIRATED 2.3 ENGINE (RISKY!!!)

    RE: 2.3 N/A engine turbocharged

    (Since so many people are constantly asking questions about adding turbo parts to their naturally aspirated engines, I thought I would add this thread I saved. I don't recommend it, nor would anyone, it is for informational purposes. This was an interesting post on Turboford of a guy that did add a turbo to his n/a engine and seemed to be able to debug it. I take no responsibility for this information, just passing it on. Highly interesting! -140)

    Topic: I added turbo to no turbo stang, can't put more than 11psi in it?
    87turbostang
    posted December 24, 2001 05:42 PM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    My question is I put a turbo,manifold,and 24lb injectors on my 87 2.3l, the car is a speed density car. The setup works good, Idle's and run's great. I just can't put more than 11psi in it, I closed the gap on the plugs, unplugged fuel cut out switch. still can't get anymore boost out of it. I think it maybe the ingnition. Getting ready to add 6AL and 2step.And 255lph pump. If anyone has any advice it will be greatly appreciated. Thanks
    ------------------
    87 mustang notchback
    2.3l, added manifold,T3 turbo, and 24lb injectors running 11psi.
    5-speed
    Autometer phantom boost,
    fuel pressure,and Air/Fuel gauge.

    Response from Randy

    What exactly do you mean? You can't get more than 11# total then it stops building boost? or do you run into detonation or a bad miss at anything over 11#?

    Response from Chuck W

    Two things stand out:
    1) 24# injectors? turbo cars had at least 30# or 35#
    2) If you're using the NA block as it sets, you really don't want too much boost or you will have several parts of pistons floating around the oil pan.

    Also, the T3 is factory limited to a base of 10-11 psi boost the way the wastegate and such is set. To increase it you need to either restrict or divert the signal from the turbo to the wastegate. However, becasue of the 2 things listed above I would recommend against it. Unless you WANT to blow up the motor.

    Response from JONESER

    What computer are you using?

    Response from stinkin' Lincoln

    re-read the post... he added a turbo to a non-turbo stang... speed density setup... they come with 14? lb injectors, so the 24's are a definate step in the right direction! LOL!
    are you running an FMU to increase fuel pressure under boost?

    as they said above, do you have any sort of bleeder on there for boost control?

    Response from 87turbostang

    I have a boost controller for managing boost, when I hit like 13psi, It's like it fuel cut, but have the fuel cut unplugged. And I have 24lb injectors, fuel pressure regulator , and a T3 u can pull as much as 30psi of boost had a friend that had it on his tc and he was running 27psi. And I'm running the stock puter that was in car, car is speed density.If anyone can help, please do. Thanks

    -and to add, I don't lose fuel pressure when I hit higher boost, it just like it's fuel cutout , but it's not

    Response from kerry t brown

    Check the fuel pressure and see what is on the fuel rail. You may just be running to lean. The stock fuel pump maynot hold the pressure you need. Under boost you should have"this is a guest" atleast 35psi and should have more to really go.
    Wonder what your computer is thinking
    "Where the hell is all this air comeing from"
    LOL Hope you keep the bottom end strong.

    Response from 87turbostang

    I have a fuel pressure gauge on the car, it's 36 at idle and about 50psi or so in boost, and yeah I bet the' puter is like ? a whole lot more air , where'd that come from

    -and to add I have a lean/rich gauge and under boost it fully rich

    Response from 2.3 max hp

    someone tell me what speed a speed density setup is please? Hope you have forged pistons if your going over 10 psi.

    Response from 87turbostang

    speed density is there is no vain meter to regulate the air coming in. timing is at 13 and inlet tube is not sucking shut

    Response from Chuck W

    I got that he added a turbo to an originally NA motor. Just a guess, are the 2.3l speed-desity systems similar to the 5.0l ones that were not able to compensate for big changes in the breathing charcteristics of the motor. I would think forcing that much air in there would cause things to go a bit awry. Forrest your thoughts? Why did they add the VAM to the turbo cars? I still think the fuel system is a bit light for this application too, but he does have gauges.
    I hope you don't think you're going to squeeze 27psi out of this setup like your friend. Your pistons will not handle anything close to that. Also, do you have an IC on the car? I know my XR7 which doesn't have the IC installed yet will pull out timing when it's hot and I'm running 15-16 psi boost. I won't turn it up until I get the IC on.
    What about getting an turbo ECM, VAM and harness?
    Chuck

    Response from CaptainTurbo

    Okay, Vane Air Meter sees the amount of air coming into the engine, no matter what mods you do. If you're blowing in 14 times the amount of air that the engine is used to seeing, it will know exactly the amount of air coming in because it monitors it directly. A speed density system used a Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor (I think) and it sorta guesses the amount of air based upon the absolute pressure. It doesn't respond to changes very well because it just doesn't have all the paramaters available for every mod to change the amount of airflow, so it's less easily adaptable to HUGE engine mods (i.e. turbo) Someone with more knowledge, please correct any mistakes in my statement or add anything I left out.

    Response from None2Slow

    Does the 2.3n\a blocks have knock sensors? Could it be pulling so much timing that it just feels like a loss of fuel?

    Response from 87turbostang

    I don't have an IC on it, I am getting ready to buy a stock tc ic for it for like $30. and try it. I know on the NA block I can't run alot of boost. I am building a turbo coupe motor for it, w/40 over forged piston's , recondition rods , and crank, and a mild cam, with alot of port work on the head and bigger valves. And 8.8 with 4.30'
    s. Then I will add big boost. I have thought about going and getting the puter, harness,and vain meter from the TC that I got the turbo from. But want to try and make it work without having to do that . That's my last resort. And a NA motor does have knock sensor, but I have it unplugged. Well if anymore advice will be appreciated, and thanks for the advice guy's.

    Response from Chuck W

    Well, My thoughts are still that you are at the limits of what the speed-desity system can handle.

    Response from 5ohsNturbos

    I tend to agree with Chuck - your speed density system is at its limit. It sees all the extra air and is giving you a great big ???..computers do have an attitude you know. You may go for the last resort on the TC electronics setup until such time as you assemble a system that can handle the excess.

    Response from slash

    WOW!! A stock 2.3 N/A longblock, with stock cast pistons, and you threw on the turbo stuff. Pretty amazing that you haven't injured someone with piston fragments yet! Cast pistons are pretty reliable to about 6 psi, then all bets are off. Whatever you do, DO NOT let that thing detonate (clatter). That'll be all she wrote.
    I tend to agree that your speed density setup is giving you the razberry! If you are building a real turbo engine, why don't you take the time now and get the correct computer, wiring, and sensors, including a VAM, and upgrade the grenade. That way, if you get probation instead of prison for killing all those innocent by-standers when that N/A motor goes to heaven , you will be READY to throw that turbo-block, forged-pistoned, big chamber headed monster in for some real fun. And as mentioned, you will need @ least 35# injectors, but they will be good to nearly 400 hp.

    The stock TO3 is only effecient to about 18 psi. After that, it's scorching the air, building boost by adding heat. Even on the big motor, I wouldn't flog that squirrel any harder than 18psi, or that new motor may be gargling turbo impeller bits. Minty fresh, but hard to digest.

    PS: I notice you mention a "cam". Do some homework if you haven't yet. These motors do not respond to camming like regular N/A motors. Traditional wisdom does not apply. Big cam + turbo = ****ed-off owner.

    Anyway, good luck with your private low-orbit project. Keep us informed . . .

    *slash goes running for the bunker*

    Response from Turbo II

    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by slash:
    WOW!! A stock 2.3 N/A longblock, with stock cast pistons, and you threw on the turbo stuff. Pretty amazing that you haven't injured someone with piston fragments yet! Cast pistons are pretty reliable to about 6 psi, then all bets are off. Whatever you do, DO NOT let that thing detonate (clatter). That'll be all she wrote....
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I think that's the key...no detonation
    under boost. I was speaking to the owner of the shop I use for engine work, his feeling was that cast pistons are plenty strong but the problem is they are very hard (read brittle) detonation causes them to break..he said forged are much more forgiving as rather than break they simply start deteriorating when detonation happens..it's pieces of piston that causes the silver spots on your plugs if your a "plug reader" Also the reason for greater piston/wall clearances with forged.

    Irregardless, running the cast ones sounds like playin with dynamite

    Response from sctur601

    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by slash:
    [BThe stock TO3 is only effecient to about 18 psi. After that, it's scorching the air, building boost by adding heat. Even on the big motor, I wouldn't flog that squirrel any harder than 18psi, or that new motor may be gargling turbo impeller bits. Minty fresh, but hard to digest.
    [/B]

    18 might be the peak effeciency but 24 psi made the most HP on the dyno for my car, it was in the sweet spot. I have been running my turbo at 22psi for about 3500-4000 hard miles and the 100,000+ mile turbo still is doing fine. You pretty much need to experiment. I wouldnt go much past 18 on an IHI though.
    I agree with everybody else about your computer and injectors. 24lbrs would be good up to around 200hp correct? Its not hard to pass 200hp with these turbo motors. I would atleast swap in 30-35lb and the first turbo computer and Vam you can find.

    Response from TurboRay

    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by 87turbostang:
    I am building a turbo coupe motor for it, w/40 over forged piston's...
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Did you already buy the .040-over pistons &/or bore the block? If not, I would suggest you reconsider boring it that much. It's really not gonna add much displacement, and it could hurt ring sealing due to cyl-wall instability. Just my 2-cents.

    C'ya - RAY

    Response from 87turbostang

    I have a cam that my friend gave that does my motor work, it's only a 420 lift cam. He has had a TC that ran on stock T3 turbo, had 255 pump,Stock IC, throttle body, same cam, 40 over pistons, bigger valves, and head work and he ran the T3 at 27psi, and has had it up to 30+, but liked 27 the best. I am getting ready to build a motor for the car, he is giving me the piston's and cam. On a speed density puter there is nothing to regulate the air so the puter doesn't no if there is more air being pushed in. I think I just need to step up to the 255 pump and put on MSD box. I appreciate all of ur guy's help. I will keep u posted on when I try the pump and msd box. and when I get the new motor done. And will post a timeslip as soon as next season start's. Thanks again for the info and thoughts.

    Response from RS450

    This is simple.. The SD MAP sensor is not designed to see positive pressure. You will need to put a check valve inline to the MAP.
    RS

    Response from RS450

    where is the fuel cut out switch?

    Response from 87turbostang

    The fuel cut out switch is located on passenger side of car right behind strut tower. I have it unplugged. RS I have been talking with a few other buddies with turbo cars and the one thinks the same as u that the map sensor is freaking out. Now with what u were saying about putting a check ball inline with the map's vacuam line. Is that what u are talking about? Please let me know so I can try it. Thanks

    Response from sabbasaun

    I'm don't know too much about the n/a 2.3l fords, but i believe if they have a map sensor that normally reads a vacumn, then you will need to put a check valve to prevent the map seeing any kind of boost pressure. This should keep the engine/mal light from coming on, even on obd controlled cars.
    Perhaps if the map is seeing boost above 11 psi, the ecu may "cut-out" like it does on the dodge cars, even though you have the fuel cut switch unplugged. On the dodge cars, if they see above 14.7 psi, they cut-out.

    Response from 87turbostang

    RS And SS thanks for the advice, I am waiting for the check valve to come, it should be here on wed. then will try it. I hope it works. Thanks again and I will keep u posted on if it works or not. And ss u are right the map does run on vacaum. So will see if the check valve works. Thanks again

    Response from 88lxr4ti

    I'd switch 2 turbo pistons(8:1 comp.)
    And my '88 came with 30# injectors stock n/a.
    I didn't think so,so I had ford check on it.
    They said this factory on all 2.3 n/a because of small displacement.If you don't believe take it up with them.If so 24#'s would be taking away from original.Check with the sites for the 2.3 n/a clubs.

    Response from 87turbostang

    Well guy's I got a vacuam check valve and installed it on the vacuam for the map and now I can add as much boost as I need. But playing it on the safe side and only running 15psi. Thanks for everyone's inpute.

    Response from weiz69

    very interesting readings.....now what about a 8 plug motor??can you put a turbo on it and run say 10 pounds????would that give any extra power???could you still run factory computer???these things I just got to know..

    Response from Merkurblue

    I would strongly recomend installing a turbo ECM (pk1,pf3, la1,2,3, ta, pc1) these are all very common turbo ecm's. plus they are readilly available. I personally have done 3 mustang turbo conversions, and they are a piece of cake. the major important items u need other than an obvious turbo block and head are: atleast 32# injectors, VAM, ECM, and TC fuel pump, a turbo fuel rail also makes somewhat of a difference. all this stuff off of an 87 or 87 TC is usually best and easier than that off a Merkur. also with the T-bird computer all u have to do is move, splice, and install a few wires into the stock harness ( strongly recommended that u have a pin-out for old and new ECM's)

    Response from mysticclam

    Ill double check of course but im pretty sure the NA injectors are 14# why on earth would they be larger than the 19# injectors on a 5.0?

    Response from 87turbostang

    I have added 24lb injectors, factory one's on car were to small.
    And yes I race at Norwalk, haven't raced this car yet just got it together about a month ago. But used to race my 5.0 there. Along with other friend's cars.

    Response from Jason Watts

    WOW! somebody who's actually done it!
    I've been thinking about doing it to my ranger, there are a few things i have issue with.
    1. your car has a high compression ratio with cast pistons. They are strong but very brittle, detonation tends to destroy/fracture ring lands and or just fracture/crack pistons. NO MATTER WHAT ELSE YOU DO, THIS WILL LIMIT YOUR ABILITY TO MAKE MORE POWER.
    2. Speed density is great for regular engines. Essentially if you know the the rpm you can "guess-timate" how much air is in your engine, the computer goes to a table and see how much air is at that RPM and then how much fuel is to be injected into the chamber. Works pretty good with a NA engine, but what happens when you modify the engine. As stated above, the computer goes ??? and every parameter is not correct for the engine.
    If you can switch to a mass air system with correspondingly calibrated mass air meter and injectors. This will give you the EXACT amount of air into the engine and give you corresponding the correct air/fuel mixture.

    3. 15psi with the stock exhaust is offering lots of back pressure, get rid of it and put something decent on it. This will give you more power and better spool up time.

    4. As for your friend's car, it is a different animal all togaher. Different pistons, differen't cam, different head, different ignition, different fuel system, probably a different turbo. You've gone pretty far with what you have, I would not recommend anymore. Maybe try to get the most out of your intake, exhaust, air filter, lighten up the car, better rear gears etc.

    Well now that you've done it I feel much better in doing for myself! But WOW! 15PSI!!
    -Jason

    Summary: SO SHOULD YOU TRY IT??? Only if you can consider your current engine temporary and are willing to replace it! Maybe it will last, maybe not. I've never found a post from "87Turbostang" following up to this work. He did visit Stangnet and Turboford quite a bit during the time he posted this info, but has been gone since (best I can tell).
     
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  12. Red

    Red
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    asdf
     
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  13. 79pace

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    A lot of my info is geared towards V8 cars but a lot of it is also useful to anyone with a car so here is a link to the Tech page of my website. It has:

    MPH/Gear/Shift point calculator
    Dyno Program thats very acurate
    Transmission Specs for almost anythhing
    Piston to Valve Clearance Calculator
    And some other various articles and links.
     
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  14. CruzNlife1

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    DO NOT BUY THE GE HIGH OUTPUT BULBS IN THE RED BOX !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY ARE TERRIBLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I SEE LESS THAN BEFORE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WILL BE GOING DOWN TO THE LOCAL RICE SHOP, THEY HAVE THESE NEW PLATINUM BULBS, MY FRIEND GOT A SET I REALLY LIKE THEM, THEY SHINE LIKE A SILVER LIGHT, EXTREMELY INTENSE
     
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  15. 140cilx

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  16. 140cilx

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  17. CruzNlife1

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    INSTALL A TACHOMETER WITH DIS !!!!

    http://www.therangerstation.com/Tachwiring.html

    2.3L - off the PCM (powertrain control module) go to pin 4, which is a tan wire with a yellow stripe. Or, go to the ICM (ignition control module) and splice pin 12, which is a tan wire w/yellow stripe - this is the same for the 4.0L, too, except for the ICM connection, it will be pin 2 instead of 12.

    I here its the same for our cars :D
     
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  18. goland55

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  19. Red

    Red
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    '83-'86 "ET" 4 speed transmission gear ratios:

    1st. - 3.98:1
    2nd. - 2.14:1
    3rd. - 1.42:1
    4th. - 1:1
    rev. - 3.99:1
     
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  20. Crovax

    Crovax Type O Danzigative the Dark
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