Turbo For Daily Street???

Discussion in '1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-' started by Grabbin' Asphalt, Aug 27, 2013.


  1. Grabbin' Asphalt

    Grabbin' Asphalt Mustang Master

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    So I'm debating on going turbo!!!
    No SC whining ....just TURBO!!!
    I'd rather spend $1500-ish on a turbo than better heads for a little more HP.
    I'm looking for a totally fun street car with a crisp,
    (no lag as possible, quick spool) <----- (MAJOR concern) up to around 5000-5500 rpm's and to
    stay around 450-475rwhp to save the stock block.
    Using only like 8-10psi without an intercooler??
    I want to keep everything, heads/cam/intake whatever and just add the parts necessary to make it work, injectors, tranny, subframes, torque box.
    I've read where I'm near the border of compression with my milled heads.
    But I've read where some have done it with even more and it worked with 93 octane.

    Should I use 2 small turbos or 1 medium size???
    To describe head brand names like AFR and Trick Flow, what are the equivalent in turbos???
    What do you guys think I could do to pull this off???

    Here's my current output as of right now.

    280rwhp - 319rwtrq

    Current Mods:
    Cid: 302 stock block, 5-spd, 3:55 gears
    Cobra intake: upper/lower fully ported
    Gt40p heads: fully ported/milled .030
    E-cam
    Trans: T5 with king cobra clutch
    Injectors: 19lbs
    FRPP 1.6 rollers
    FRPP 65mm throttle body
    Pro-M 73mm
    255lph fuel pump
    Chip tune
    Ignition: stock distributor with msd coil
    Base timing @ 12* (was at 10* for dyno pull)
    Electric fan
    Crank/Water under drive pulleys
    P headers and off road H-pipe - no cats
    with A/C - P/S
    Driver Characteristics : Excellent DD

    IMG_3788 - Copy.JPG
     
    #1
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013
  2. hoopty5.0

    hoopty5.0 Mustang Master

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    Buy a starter kit from on3 or hellion, you can add in the extra parts you need. Much, much easier that way, and cheaper
     
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  3. MY 85 GT

    MY 85 GT Well-Known Member

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    I wouldnt go without an intercooler thats just my opinion...I have an On3 kit over a yr and a Half i pretty much used the car almost everyday...Now not so much now because i installed a C4 with 3500 stall so i dont drive it as much...but the car is fun to drive when i do get in it...i see boost pretty quick around 2500-2800 rpms...full boost 3500 and up....Oh and the stick wont hold up that long i see alot of guys roasting them...lol
     
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  4. Grabbin' Asphalt

    Grabbin' Asphalt Mustang Master

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    #4
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013
  5. 84Ttop

    84Ttop They make new pistons every day, so why worry? SN Certified Technician Mod Dude

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    When you debate Intercooled to non Intercooled you have to think about intake air temps. With higher temps, detonation becomes a concern just as with higher compression. This closes your tuning window especially on regular pump fuel. This is where a lot of people decide to add meth injection which I'm not a huge fan of either.
    For starters you should think about the big picture. Trans is inadequate and needs to be upgraded. Subframe connectors are highly recommended as well as some torque box reinforcements at this level. You should consider the 340l/hr fuel pump 42# injectors and matching mass air which together all become costly. Then to the turbo kit. Will an eBay kit work? Sure. Is it going to fit great? Not likely. Will it have seal and bearing issues? In time, with out a doubt. A good quality kit is going to set you back quite a bit of money not including the other upgrades. Don't forget the tune once it's all done... This power adder stuff in incredible and there is nothing like! I just urge you to seriously consider and weigh out all of your options.

    As far as turbo kits are concerned, I am not a fan of On3 one but. The two kits I have put on have fit like garbage. There 94-95 kit called for you to just "bend" the abs pump out of the way to clear the tubing. The 87-93 kit I installed had the hot and cold side tubing touching. I had to re make the cold side tubing before I was happy with the fitment. Both cars made decent power and drove fine. One is still running over a year later and one needed seals in the turbo 3 months later.
    Hellion makes some very nice stuff, but it is pricey. Personally I would build my own kit and use a turbo from precision if I were to go that way. You could certainly piece a setup together but I would recommend using high quality parts over the knock off or eBay pieces.

    I would be more than willing to help you track down all the right parts for this kind of build, just let me know.
     
    #5
  6. A5literMan

    A5literMan Mustang Master

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    Some of the on3 builds I've seen had to put in some time to get them to fit together. But they made good power and the t-5 will not last or be as quick as a properly set up auto.
     
    #6
  7. 84Ttop

    84Ttop They make new pistons every day, so why worry? SN Certified Technician Mod Dude

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    It's funny if you read the description, "While this kit is designed to be a bolt on, it is not a direct fit." And "Some modifications will be required! Such as cutting and clearancing to fit the intercooler and tubing, minor dimpling of the tubing to clear chassis components, tapping an oil return in the oil pan, etc. "
     
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  8. A5literMan

    A5literMan Mustang Master

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    Hey 84Ttop would you mind listing what you would recommend? I think a few people would definitely be interested. I know I am:D I'm really starting to lean towards a turbo build instead of a 427. Sure are some wicked cars at the track with turbos nowadays:nice:
     
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  9. hoopty5.0

    hoopty5.0 Mustang Master

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    @84Ttop - While I agree with you on the on3 stuff - if you buy a kit, it should fit WITHOUT all the unnessecary b.s. BUT for the price, it's hard to beat. And not everyone has the ability to fab something up like you or I can.

    With that said, @Grabbin' Asphalt if you DO decided to get a kit, I would order from the manufacturer direct because they have upgrades to the kits where you can add in the necessary fuel system parts and whatnot. That way, it all comes at once and it takes out the guess work of what all do I need.

    The on3 kit, with it's marginal reviews is going to run you around $2.5k with the extra fuel upgrades (sans tune!). The Hellion kit, while known for quality, is going to be closer to $4.5k. Those are guesstimates based off of my research. I obviously opted to build my own system, but it's a ton more work on the DIY side of the fence.
     
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  10. 84Ttop

    84Ttop They make new pistons every day, so why worry? SN Certified Technician Mod Dude

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    I agree 100%! A product manufacture should invest the time and money in good r&d so that there products work and work well. I unhappily make these kinds of things work but as you stated, total bs. Not to go off on a tangent, but for example: new Vortech products are tested on multiple vehicles before they ever issue a kit. Hence there is almost never an issue with one of their kits. Pro charger on the other hand does not spend enough time with r&d and for this reason when they sent us a carbureted Kit for a 85 mustang it included "random pieces of tubing so you can make it work" and I'm not kidding. How is that a kit? Done ranting...

    I would be more than happy to work with you on a setup for your car. A lot of thought and consideration really needs to be taken in when deciding what is right for every combo in order to maximize your hp potential.
     
    #10
  11. Grabbin' Asphalt

    Grabbin' Asphalt Mustang Master

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    Didn't realize it would be that costly for quality. Cause I want it done right. I did see that statement of "bolt on but non-direct fit" . :(
     
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  12. MY 85 GT

    MY 85 GT Well-Known Member

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    I do hear a lot of Horror stories about the On3 kit the shop that installed mine said it fit fine no problems...it has been on the car for over a yr 14 psi and runs strong...I do run meth injection also as a safety plus it does cool down the intake even more...Like I said the T5 wont last long...And Ive been in stick foxes with turbos and Like mine an Auto what a difference my car pulls so Hard just keeps building boost thru the gears..i wouldn't trade the Auto for anything...Yes I like the 3.55's some guys say I should do 3.08s or 3.27's I might some day go to 3.08s due to no OD anymore...but for now I like them....
     
    #12
  13. madspeed

    madspeed Colonel Mustard Mod Dude Founding Member

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    i spent the previous winter installing my on3 kit. It fit just fine, but I did change the throttle body inlet tubing. Hot parts had slight leak at the crossover to turbo side header, but was easily remedied with a $5.00 walker gasket. PM me if you need any additional info.

    I will say that for the price, it's hard to beat, but I would definitely make sure you have the proper supporting pieces and plan on upgrading things like the turbo, bov, wastegate at some point down the road.

    If it were a daly driver, I would likely go with a Vortech unit, just for the ease of install and reliability. Those can be found pretty regularly available second hand with lots of guys going turbo.
     
    #13
  14. MikeH686

    MikeH686 Mine is only two inches though.

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    what about b and g kit? i believe when i go turbo i will be piecing together this kit you can buy the whole kit or each component one at a time, i dont know if on3 is the same way i do know that a guy ordered and paid for siemens deka injectors and got the on3 brand injectors which didnt flow 60 lbs and didnt even flow the same from injector to injector. But thats just my opinion.

    DONT KILL MEE!!!
     
    #14
  15. MY 85 GT

    MY 85 GT Well-Known Member

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    I hear bad things about B&G too...I do agree I would get the fuel system separate...The kit itself isn't that bad...I bought the whole kit with there Y-pipe I didn't get there MAF...didn't use there injectors...and I didn't use an oil relocation kit I just used a smaller filter...
     
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  16. MikeH686

    MikeH686 Mine is only two inches though.

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    Whatre the cons to b and g?
     
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  17. MY 85 GT

    MY 85 GT Well-Known Member

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    I hear they don't get back to you...There customer service has suffered...And they make a cheap kit too now...which is good if you want to go that route...that's not a con....lol...I just have heard bad things about them....Go to corral you can see some post about it...
     
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  18. Grabbin' Asphalt

    Grabbin' Asphalt Mustang Master

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    Now I feel like I need a streetable stroker motor o_O I'm not scared to put an E-cam in that either :rlaugh:
     
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  19. MikeH686

    MikeH686 Mine is only two inches though.

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    I have a 347 8.5:1 motor shes fun lol
     
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  20. FastDriver

    FastDriver Mod Dude

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    Save yourself the hassle and stay away from the On3 kit. I'm biased due to the hundreds of comments I've read from people who used them. If you get on Corral, or possibly even here, there are some die-hard vehement On3 supporters. I could never go that route. Hellion, hire someone who's work you can look at with your own eyes, or build your own. For $1500 you should be able to find a good used kit, but as always buyer beware. I tried to sell my intercooled incon kit, which is a high quality kit, and I couldn't even get that for it.. So, I just ended up giving it to a close friend.

    Go intercooled. 8-10 psi is possible without an intercooler at stock compression, but I wouldn't, especially with Iron heads. With upped compression and iron heads in your car, I think it's a no-brainer. If single turbo, stay in the 60-70mm range. If building your own, I would really take a look at the Master Power T70, an older but proven design that's won't be overworked at block splitting power and one where spool rpm should be reasonable. It won't spool as quickly as the smaller side of the range, but 3-4 years ago, they were already selling for only $500 new.

    Also, you asked about twins or a single. I've had both. A properly sized single is the way to go. Twins made changing plugs or pulling valve covers a nightmare, several sets of burned wires, heat wrapping everything... no good. A well design twin kit can alleviate this, but it's still going to be more expensive, more complex, and will take more work on installation. Single keeps the engine bay cleaner and easier to work in. Stay away from rear-mount stuff. They're laggy/unresponsive by comparison.

    Lastly, nice numbers from that combo. I didn't believe it until I notice the GT40s were ported.
     
    #20
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2013

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