V6 to take a GT

[Tru_Blue_104]

you got to be kidding.....that is the saddest thing i've heard. your 94 v6 145hp beating a 260hp v8, tell your friend to buy an automatic because that has to be the most horrible shifting ever. and even if he is just sitting there roasting the tires, he just has to baby it off the line and he would rape you. either you are full of crap or he is the worst driver ever a 99+ gt to be running a 16 doesn't seem that possible.

Dude, I know. He doesnt baby it, he just doesnt shift at the right places. Im sure after he gets better he will beat the crap out of me over and over. I know that he should have beat me, but in all honesty, he didnt. I didnt post earlier to say my car is faster than a V8, Im just supporting the fact that driving skill does have something to do with it.

 

[98V6 K.I.T.T.]

Dude, I know. He doesnt baby it, he just doesnt shift at the right places. Im sure after he gets better he will beat the crap out of me over and over. I know that he should have beat me, but in all honesty, he didnt. I didnt post earlier to say my car is faster than a V8, Im just supporting the fact that driving skill does have something to do with it.

yeah...no i didn't take it like that don't worry, just pointing out your friends unbelievable horrible driving skills.

 

[OxMox]

^

 

[6Stang7]

8. Moto blue 180* thermostat
3. Re-surfaced fly wheel
4. Hawk brake pads
5. New oem calipers

so ummm, why did you list these? to give yourself a bigger list?


my buddy has a 00 V6 with minor bolt on's, exhaust, and a RPM cam. it's decent and all for a V6, but it won't stand up to a stock GT. i eat him up alive in the 67 (see sig) now even though i spin all of 1st, 2nd, and part of 3rd. now, once we get the turbo he has sittin in his room on, well then looks like I might need to get posi so mine will hook up.

 

['66 coupe]

I knew this thread would suck the second it got started.

 

[215what]

so did i

 

[2000 blown conv]

so did i

Mee too,,I'm going back to power adders..

 

[OxMox]

so ummm, why did you list these? to give yourself a bigger list?

It's still stuff I have in my car and no I wasn't trying to make the list longer... those parts are really nothing speciall at all. The most expensive thing from what you listed was the Re-surfaced flywheel. I had it machined and all that good stuff... It definitally made a difference.
your 67 sounds nice, I don't know if I would put a turbo on it but thats me. I would go with a super charger with a fatty intake coming outta the hood.

And the thread hasn't been all that bad, it's just been a bunch of people arguing over wether or not a V6 could take a GT, But if you GT guys want to go talk to some other V8 owners... try this site-... you might like it. www.ls1.com ... Wait isn't that a chevy and GM site. Oh well, My bad. V6 people, I'm not dogging ford or our V6s' i'm just saying what most of us are or have be thinking. I've said it before, Mustang GT= nothing to special.

 

[Scott_95GT]

lol...So what does that make your v6?

Hey man, you said it, not me.

 

[OxMox]

I never said the V6 was anything to "Ohh and AWE" over it's a 3.8l V6, which is a big V6 engine but it only puts out 190hp and thats not even at the wheels. Some of the newer V6's from other makes are producing well over the 225hp mark. Then you have the GT a 4.6l v8 not too much bigger than the 3.8l little brother, and that only puts out 260hp (honestly thats not to awhole lot of power, for a mid sized v8), and for both of them 3.8's and 4.6's they are both underpowered and the older ones like the 94' - 98's they are even worse... which I think is what every one was trying to say. And again by no means am I trying to say that a mustang V6 of any year is the greatest of the great but neither is the GT... the cobra is really the only mustang that should be talking, but even those are still 4.6l S/C with 390hp, not saying that 390hp is a bad number but it's done by forced induction... I don't know maybe i'm just pickey but I think that a lot of people will agree with me when I say that the mustang has kinda fallen behind in the muscle car "race", you have a camaro z28, camaro ss, GTO, Trans-am WS6 and Corvette. and the only mustang that can hang with those cars stock is a '03/'04 cobra and maybe a mach 1. All i'm saying is mustangs have a long way to go.

 

[98V6 K.I.T.T.]

well your also comparing different kinds of engines. your 3.8l is a pushrod, and most v6's you are competing with are are sohc and dohc engines. you talk about there hp numbers, but what about ther tq numbers? where is there power made? rwd, fwd, awd....weight? there is alot more than just a hp number. I don't think the 4.6 is weak, it's power to displacement ratio is not that bad, plus it's competiting with cars with bigger engines, making it really the smallest engine out of the pack. you can't really throw the 94/95 because they use the ohv 5.0, which has been shown time and time again how that little 302 can make good power. ford went to a modular engine because they wanted to have a higher reving v8. 96-98 t's made 215 and 225hp in 98, but when you do the pi swap you gain more than 40hp, just shows you how potent those cars really were but not given. 99+ already had 260. then you consider the cobras making 305 and 320hp in 99+ and 390 in 03/04. all coming out of a 4.6L. yeah the 03/04 is superchared but you take the blower off and it's a forged internal 01 cobra engine n/a. and your comparing it to the 350ci ls1. the ls1 might be a bit faster but it also has more cubes and a pushrod motor which makes it a different engine entirely. plus i always like it when people don't look at things business wise. A gt cost less than a same year z28, and the cobras are the same price if not less than a ss ot t/a and they make more power then them in 03/04. I'm sure ford could make a more expensive mustang by throwing there bigger engines in them. The reason why stangs sell well is plain and simple, they are one of the most affordable yet good looking and powerful cars there are. The only car that can compete with that concept is the corvette.

 

[Scott_95GT]

I never said the V6 was anything to "Ohh and AWE" over it's a 3.8l V6, which is a big V6 engine but it only puts out 190hp and thats not even at the wheels. Some of the newer V6's from other makes are producing well over the 225hp mark. Then you have the GT a 4.6l v8 not too much bigger than the 3.8l little brother, and that only puts out 260hp (honestly thats not to awhole lot of power, for a mid sized v8), and for both of them 3.8's and 4.6's they are both underpowered and the older ones like the 94' - 98's they are even worse... which I think is what every one was trying to say. And again by no means am I trying to say that a mustang V6 of any year is the greatest of the great but neither is the GT... the cobra is really the only mustang that should be talking, but even those are still 4.6l S/C with 390hp, not saying that 390hp is a bad number but it's done by forced induction... I don't know maybe i'm just pickey but I think that a lot of people will agree with me when I say that the mustang has kinda fallen behind in the muscle car "race", you have a camaro z28, camaro ss, GTO, Trans-am WS6 and Corvette. and the only mustang that can hang with those cars stock is a '03/'04 cobra and maybe a mach 1. All i'm saying is mustangs have a long way to go.

First off, you said mustangs have fallen behind in the muscle car race, when the last Camero/Firebird was made in 2002. Fallen behind huh...

2nd, if you know anything about the 03 snake, then you know it's faster than a LS1 vette, thousands cheaper, and EXTREMLY underated at 390hp. And if you spend barely any money modding it (boost pully, exhaust, tune) you will beat on Z06's with your 500hp daily driver.

1996-current cobras, mach 1's, bullit's, roush's, saleens, 05 GT's, as well as thousands of modded older GT's are all cars that "should be talking," not just the 03 cobra. Don't try to bring everyone down saying these cars are nothing special like your v6.

You like to compare the max hp of a modded v6 to that of a stock gt to get a close comparison. You never mention anything about TORQUE. You can bolt-on and bolt-on to a v6 all day, but you won't get out of the hole like a GT, even if you match the GT in hp. Why do you think a stock v6 runs 15.5's all day while a properly driven stock 18-year old 5.0, only 30 more hp, is over a second faster? Torque. (I'm not talking about 1 guy with a stock v6 in some magazine running a 14.9, I'm talking about what people really run. If you want to make the claim of 14.9 for a v6, their were a couple guys recored running high 13's in stock notchbacks, and 4.6's, but I'm not saying that.)

 

[Scott_95GT]

well your also comparing different kinds of engines. your 3.8l is a pushrod, and most v6's you are competing with are are sohc and dohc engines. you talk about there hp numbers, but what about ther tq numbers? where is there power made? rwd, fwd, awd....weight? there is alot more than just a hp number. I don't think the 4.6 is weak, it's power to displacement ratio is not that bad, plus it's competiting with cars with bigger engines, making it really the smallest engine out of the pack. you can't really throw the 94/95 because they use the ohv 5.0, which has been shown time and time again how that little 302 can make good power. ford went to a modular engine because they wanted to have a higher reving v8. 96-98 t's made 215 and 225hp in 98, but when you do the pi swap you gain more than 40hp, just shows you how potent those cars really were but not given. 99+ already had 260. then you consider the cobras making 305 and 320hp in 99+ and 390 in 03/04. all coming out of a 4.6L. yeah the 03/04 is superchared but you take the blower off and it's a forged internal 01 cobra engine n/a. and your comparing it to the 350ci ls1. the ls1 might be a bit faster but it also has more cubes and a pushrod motor which makes it a different engine entirely. plus i always like it when people don't look at things business wise. A gt cost less than a same year z28, and the cobras are the same price if not less than a ss ot t/a and they make more power then them in 03/04. I'm sure ford could make a more expensive mustang by throwing there bigger engines in them. The reason why stangs sell well is plain and simple, they are one of the most affordable yet good looking and powerful cars there are. The only car that can compete with that concept is the corvette.

Agreed. Thats a good point about the price too.

Also, compare interior, brakes (Some early f-bodies had drums ), handling, build quality.

 

['66 coupe]

I don't know maybe i'm just pickey but I think that a lot of people will agree with me when I say that the mustang has kinda fallen behind in the muscle car "race", you have a camaro z28, camaro ss, GTO, Trans-am WS6 and Corvette. and the only mustang that can hang with those cars stock is a '03/'04 cobra and maybe a mach 1. All i'm saying is mustangs have a long way to go.

And now the $25,000 '05 GT. Hmm...300 naturally aspirated hp from a 281ci engine? And for a lot cheaper than the competitors you've mentioned? Yea, Mustangs have fallen behind, huh?

Also, NONE of the cars that you listed are muscle cars. They are all "Pony cars(which car dominates this class, I wonder?)" except for the Corvette which is a "Sports car". The only car you mentioned that was ever a Muscle car was the GTO, but the new one(I mean the rebadged Monaro) is the standard Pony car 2+2 seater 2-door. I realize everything you have said is stupid, but I thought I'd just start correcting you by teaching you the basics.

 

[Badd GT]

well i have read all of this thread & have to say most of you are keeping it real.
i get V6's trying to race me all the time since i have tried to keep my car as stock LOOKING as it was new.
they only give aways are the 275/40/17 nitto dr's
the removed spoiler does cause some to think it is a bullitt (even though they are hardly a hair faster than a GT)

but i can say that most 99+ GT's have some modding which GT's dont respond well to light modding power wise. most never get better than mid 13's. suspension/tires is the place to modify GT's.....have seen in 12's with nothing more than tires & suspension or HEAVILY MODDED/power adder.
my car i would say is heavily modded......i thought i would go the NA route to keep it stock looking......even my exhaust is stock sounding til i step on the loud pedal. i am missing P&P stage 2 heads but am about out of mods otherwise.
i have demolished every V6 i have come across.
i would say you guys should go turbo.
i would think that a full bolt-on turbo V6, with full suspension setup, tires & gears would be very fast. of course most of you have V6's either for age or economics so those rule out that option.
i am just glad you guys did not go RICE........thanks for buying american....i know you have your hands full battling the ricers.

 

[OxMox]

Agreed. Thats a good point about the price too.

Also, compare interior, brakes (Some early f-bodies had drums ), handling, build quality.

I agree with the pricing on the cars, mustangs are cheaper than the rest... conciderably cheaper. All this comes down to is who or what company you favor, obviously being ford people we're not going to just step aside for any other company no matter what and we absolutly love our mustang (hence why we even bought one to begin with). I was saying that mustangs fell behind as far as muscle cars go seeing how they were being almost over run by the power and tourqe by the other companys, and even in other areas like rear-ends, and some trannys. Vettes have always been great, z28's and ss's have high horse power and torque engines aswell as stroger rear-ends and decent trannys, same with the T/A's and pretty much the same as the new gto. I will agree the modular engine is great... especially when modded. But i'm comparing them to stock numbers. Horse power to horse power, torque to torque, weight to weight, luxary to luxary (I will admit, aside from the new gto and new vettes, the mustang had them beat in this catagory).... etc. etc. All i'm saying is the mustang needs alittle work. Yes, '05 mustang is changed, more torque and horse power, better design, interior and everything, But aside from its' visual difference it is'nt to much different performance wise atleast not to the point where it's really noticible than the previous years GT, from only driving a '03 GT and only reading about the '05s' it seems like they are real similar (as far as performance). Yes, the camaros and T/A's stoped in '02, but thats another point of mine, they haven't been around for almost 3 years and now ford comes out with a 300hp mustang (a day late and a dollar short), but since then what other "muscle car, pony car, american sports car" or whatever the hell you want to call them (but you all knew what I was talking about) was left to compare against the mustang, pretty much the 'vette, then the new GTO (350hp and now 400hp for around 36k$, which isn't too bad) came out. Modulars VS Pushrods... I don't know how you guys are going to want to look at that? Two different sized engines and pretty much two different types of engine, ok... But that's what's great about the whole rivalry between ford and chevy/GM. Just like any rivalry one has to be the winner and I think as far as power goes (And this is what the thread had to do with in the first place, how much power or whatever will it take to beat a GT) chevy/GM has ford beat... not by much but a W is still a W. Luxury, Ford wins... no doubt, and looks, well aside from the new vette and gto, ford wins that one too as well as pricing. But my point is, this thread had to do with what will it take to beat a GT, so I brought up the point that the GTs aren't all that great, but what I should have followed that up with is, as far as muscle cars go, or as far as power goes. Again yes their torque is good and all that. What I would like to say is I would love to see ford come out with a new mustang (wait didn't ford just come out with a new mustang... yes, in a way) BUT, what I want to see is what every mustang lover whants to see, a mustang that will decimate 9 out of 10 of it's competators (of today and yesteryear) and still be easy on the wallet. And maybe this mustang will be the one to do it, next year, or the year after when and if ford decides to bump up the power/torque numbers, change a part here or there on the engine or whatever and i'm not talking about the saleens or roushes or the gt500, hence the easy on your wallet part. I think that I maid a pretty good point last time but seeing how I messed up two things that really stand out. 1) this is mustang forum (biased opinions) and 2) I should have been more specific. That's pretty much what I meant when I said that a GT isn't all that great... which I should have been more specifice with. I want you all to understand that in no way am I saying that everybodys mustang and all mustangs sucks, but to me I think that ford could have done a little better in the power department, and thats just my opinion and hopefully you all see my point, if not then I don't know how else to explain it. Real quick as far as ricers go......... &*^@'em! Yeah, V6's have alot of competion with ricers, even some of the v8's are starting to get some competion.

 

[FunkMasterFlex]

good god all i can say is that this thread has gotten way :OT:

for whoever asked the original question what would it take for a v6 to beat a gt, if you havent figured out the answer then here. it will take a lot of work, most likely youll need more then bolt ons, ie engine build up/power adders. there please let this thread die

v6, gt, cobra just remember we drive MUSTANGS here and whichever kind we drive, most likely were going to mod it anyways. so respect and support your fellow stang owners.

 

['66 coupe]

I agree with the pricing on the cars, mustangs are cheaper than the rest... conciderably cheaper.

BUT, what I want to see is what every mustang lover whants to see, a mustang that will decimate 9 out of 10 of it's competators (of today and yesteryear) and still be easy on the wallet.

I want you all to understand that in no way am I saying that everybodys mustang and all mustangs sucks, but to me I think that ford could have done a little better in the power department, and thats just my opinion.

I work in retail, and people like you just flat out suck. You all want something for nothing, and you don't understand that the world simply does not work that way.

IMO, Ford is doing an incredible job delivering hp and quality for well under $30k. You mentioned the GTO not being a bad deal at $36k, so I expect you to be at the Ford dealership ready to buy one of the first new Shelby's when it's released.
If you're not in a position to buy one, you simply need to quit your bitching. Ford has made a very well performing car and priced it for you. If you don't think 300hp for $25k is enough, well then Ford doesn't care about your ungrateful ass, because there are several other people that see the bargain and will continue to make the Mustang the #1 selling performance car.

Seriously though, you sound like a Cobra owner, but you drive a V6. I don't get it...

 

[98V6 K.I.T.T.]

[QUOTE='66 coupe]I work in retail, and people like you just flat out suck. You all want something for nothing, and you don't understand that the world simply does not work that way.

IMO, Ford is doing an incredible job delivering hp and quality for well under $30k. You mentioned the GTO not being a bad deal at $36k, so I expect you to be at the Ford dealership ready to buy one of the first new Shelby's when it's released.
If you're not in a position to buy one, you simply need to quit your bitching. Ford has made a very well performing car and priced it for you. If you don't think 300hp for $25k is enough, well then Ford doesn't care about your ungrateful ass, because there are several other people that see the bargain and will continue to make the Mustang the #1 selling performance car.

Seriously though, you sound like a Cobra owner, but you drive a V6. I don't get it...[/QUOTE]

well.....i don't think he is being a prick about things, he has a right to his opinion and that's fine. but i agree with you and we seem to think much the same. I just find it funny when people don't account a business side to things, i guess being a pyschology/business major forces me to be. Ford is obviously doing something right. To stop production of the camaro/firebird after being in existance since 1967, a car GM relied in for years means alot. So what does this say? A competing car, the mustang, that is slower (minus 03/04 Cobra) and good amount cheaper is beating something more powerful and more expensive. It shows that the majority of buyers are not drag racers and don't care if the car isn't the fastest car out there. it's, like saying SUV's should cater more to offroad performance, but they don't because companies realize that not enough people actually use that, hence why they put dub wheels with street tires on them...thought it was an suv? In this case something more affordable with still enough fun power is desired in the majority. Plus personally i thought body design on the last generation f-body was poor, the t/a was ok, but not great in my opinion, and i think many people agree with that..hence another reason why they stopped production, the mustang was more apealing to a much wider spectrum. How many camaro rental cars have you seen? I don't see any....Plus when GM unleashed there new body style in 94, so did the mustang. But when ford unleashed there new edge styling with improved platforms all GM did was put the ls1 engine in replacing the lt1, and changed the headlights and tailights....wow...Plus the fact that Saleen, roush, steeda, kenny brown, svt and now shelby...um....yeah, i'm sure these companies and divisions wanted to make money by going with a platform that sold better from the factory, Just because one person doesn't like product A doesn't mean the company has to bless the wishes of that person and make product B. If it goes outside the business goals they shouldn't do it. And alittle too late with the 05???? Dude Ford stopped production of the f-body with the previous years, for them to come out with something new and improved couldn't have come at a better time, for previous f-body owners that want a car similiar but can't afford a vette have another option, which could help improve ford sales more, what...GM came out with the GTO...wow....yeah real big hit that's turning out to be.

yeah this thread was about what to beat a gt, but i find this debate more enjoyable.

 

['66 coupe]

A competing car, the mustang, that is slower (minus 03/04 Cobra) and good amount cheaper is beating something more powerful and more expensive. It shows that the majority of buyers are not drag racers and don't care if the car isn't the fastest car out there.

While there are people out there who don't touch their Mustangs as far as mods go, I wouldn't say they're a majority. Instead the aftermarket is booming because people want to mod their Mustang with the money they saved on the sticker price. And that's where I see Ford's marketing as pure genius. Instead of charging people for something they MIGHT not have wanted, they stick to the basics just to move their product. What's better, selling a few expensive cars, or A LOT of cheap ones?
Then to top it off they have Ford Racing for those that want new rims, cylinder heads, gears, etc...