Vortech V1 vs Ls1?

[Winters98GT]

Winters, regardless of the ratings the cars ran specific times. And by pro drivers I mean pro drivers. Drivers with championships under their belts. And it is a known fact that the LS1 engines in the Corvette had different tweaks to it...whether it was a different cam profile or intake manifold, they had better engines. I mean why would Chevy put the same exact Corvette engine in a Camaro? Even now the Corvettes have slightly more hp. I ran these cars (Camaros) at the track. I saw what they can do on multiple occasions. And they were nowhere near the 12s...I ran them all day and I never broke into the 13's. Maybe with some ET streets it woulda been a different story. LS1 guys are always talking their engines up. And I have yet to see one do what people claim. Of course there are the few exceptions that get posted on YouTube...but still this is not representative of the majority of LS1s out there. Even if you found 100 videos that would still not represent the majority of them who have yet to break 13's. Heck I've seen the new SS Camaros run mid 14's. So there are some cases where a good driver has a good combo and can accomplish these feats. But chances are that your average dude in an average "bolt-on" 2001 Camaro with his baseball cap on backwards isn't doing a 12.

The camaro and C5 engine are the exact same. 241 head, same intake and exhaust valves, same timing chain, same crank pulley and oil pump, and same cam profile(except for the FRC in some cases). Again, I was there at MTI in Houston from the beginning, first LS1 in the 9's, etc. I've been there and done it.

Just to let you know a little about me, I was the 2nd person on this board that I can recall to do a PI headswap, and I was the first person in the 2v community to ever run reground cams on a 2v(erson). I helped a guy named Shannon Wheeler(fraud) when I was in high school start a site here and on many sites called DTA racing. I ran a 13.1 ET in 2000 with my 1998 GT with PI heads, at 260rwhp in full street trim with 17x9 tires all around with tokico blue shocks/struts and ford racing c-springs(street/road racing setup). I ended up doing 3 PI swaps on my 2v mustangs that I owned and raced them. Here I am in highschool right before I ran a 13.1 pass, and you can see the cars street trim on nittos. Nobody was faster on this board or the Corral without ET streets, weight reduction.

If you care to dispute my facts, then you are dead wrong. We have plenty of drivers that can hop behind the wheel of a stock LS1 and run 14's, and some of us can run low 13's bone stock. What you have seen over the years is not indicative of what these cars are capable, depending on your DA and/or driver ability.

 

[slayerripkdc]

The camaro and C5 engine are the exact same. 241 head, same intake and exhaust valves, same timing chain, same crank pulley and oil pump, and same cam profile(except for the FRC in some cases). Again, I was there at MTI in Houston from the beginning, first LS1 in the 9's, etc. I've been there and done it.

Just to let you know a little about me, I was the 2nd person on this board that I can recall to do a PI headswap, and I was the first person in the 2v community to ever run reground cams on a 2v(erson). I helped a guy named Shannon Wheeler(fraud) when I was in high school start a site here and on many sites called DTA racing. I ran a 13.1 ET in 2000 with my 1998 GT with PI heads, at 260rwhp in full street trim with 17x9 tires all around with tokico blue shocks/struts and ford racing c-springs(street/road racing setup). I ended up doing 3 PI swaps on my 2v mustangs that I owned and raced them. Here I am in highschool right before I ran a 13.1 pass, and you can see the cars street trim on nittos. Nobody was faster on this board or the Corral without ET streets, weight reduction.

If you care to dispute my facts, then you are dead wrong. We have plenty of drivers that can hop behind the wheel of a stock LS1 and run 14's, and some of us can run low 13's bone stock. What you have seen over the years is not indicative of what these cars are capable, depending on your DA and/or driver ability.

I have a question for you Winters... I am thinking about purchasing a C5 Corvette! How much quicker is it compared to the camaro? Stock and with full exhaust? Is it quicker due to lighter weight and aero dynamics? What gears would you recommend for a fun street car that sees the 1/4mile 2 times per year and still ahs a nice top end pull?

 

[Three50won]

The camaro and C5 engine are the exact same. 241 head, same intake and exhaust valves, same timing chain, same crank pulley and oil pump, and same cam profile(except for the FRC in some cases). Again, I was there at MTI in Houston from the beginning, first LS1 in the 9's, etc. I've been there and done it.

Just to let you know a little about me, I was the 2nd person on this board that I can recall to do a PI headswap, and I was the first person in the 2v community to ever run reground cams on a 2v(erson). I helped a guy named Shannon Wheeler(fraud) when I was in high school start a site here and on many sites called DTA racing. I ran a 13.1 ET in 2000 with my 1998 GT with PI heads, at 260rwhp in full street trim with 17x9 tires all around with tokico blue shocks/struts and ford racing c-springs(street/road racing setup). I ended up doing 3 PI swaps on my 2v mustangs that I owned and raced them. Here I am in highschool right before I ran a 13.1 pass, and you can see the cars street trim on nittos. Nobody was faster on this board or the Corral without ET streets, weight reduction.

If you care to dispute my facts, then you are dead wrong. We have plenty of drivers that can hop behind the wheel of a stock LS1 and run 14's, and some of us can run low 13's bone stock. What you have seen over the years is not indicative of what these cars are capable, depending on your DA and/or driver ability.

Winters, I wasn't disputing anything that you've personally done. I mentioned that there are exceptions. You obviously have a great deal of experience as a driver and enthusiast. There are those who are legit in this hobby. But there are more who are fakes. I never doubted anyone on what they've personally done. I just expressed my doubts concerning LS1 powered cars with bolt-ons trapping 112 mph. That's what I was saying.

You've actually ran your car and you personally built your car. And your car is a Mustang. I've done the same thing over the years so I can respect that. But still, in my posts I'm talking about Camaro LS1 owners and their prevalent attitudes. Like I said, Camaro guys seem to always talk their cars up. They read that this mod adds this much hp and that mod adds that much hp and they add it all up and say they have 500 hp engines. Then they go on YouTube and watch real 500 hp cars run this or that time and now they figure their car is a 11 or 12 sec car. I hear about LS1s and how amazing they are all the time. LS1 this, LS1 that, my LS1 has this much hp, my LS1 ran this time, my LS1 is also a sandwich maker and makes the most awesome grilled cheese sandwich ever. Not taking anything away from Chevy, the LS engine family is impressive...but some of the stories I hear about them are outright ridiculous.

 

[03_TrueBlue_GT]

You have to realize that anybody that has a sports car or heck a basic people mover is going to talk up their cars more than they can back them up. Its just people running their mouths not their cars that's the problem. LS1's and 4.6 Mustangs done right are nothing to sneeze at, it just takes a different approach and amount of money to reach the satisfaction the owner wants from the car. Btw Night that picture made me literally bust up laughing. Back to the OP I believe it will be a good close race. Actually I have no idea how it will end up, but I thought I would just give you some words of encouragement.

 

[1fun281]

I have beaten quite a few C6Zs and even a ZR1 at the track. Does that mean that my car is faster or that it won't get destroyed on the street? Absolutely not.



I have seen quite a few stock LS1s trap 107+. Full bolt ons easily equal 5 mph. If the Camaro DOESN'T trap 112 in decent weather, then something is wrong.

And we still don't know if the Mustang is intercooled or not.....

And you guys talking about beating LS1s with naturally aspirated 2-valves....you need to get around some folks who know how to drive or who have similar tire setups. Equal driver for equal driver, and equal tire for equal tire, NA LS1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NA 2-valve 4.6. Sorry guys. Just keeping it real.

Every LS1 im talking about is an auto, with a converter, that dead hooks on the street on radials....What driving are we talking about, ohh by the way im running a 5 speed? odds are against me.

My NA 2v went 12.90 at 105 on a hot night in florida with a shi*** 1.9 60' full 3500 pounds and lowered with no drag race suspension at all, i guess that doesnt beat a 13.2 camaro?

LS1 are fast with bolt ons, but no reason to be scared of them 2v's can run just as hard just gotta know the right set ups

 

[sneaky98gt]

Every LS1 im talking about is an auto, with a converter, that dead hooks on the street on radials....What driving are we talking about, ohh by the way im running a 5 speed? odds are against me.

My NA 2v went 12.90 at 105 on a hot night in florida with a shi*** 1.9 60' full 3500 pounds and lowered with no drag race suspension at all, i guess that doesnt beat a 13.2 camaro?

LS1 are fast with bolt ons, but no reason to be scared of them 2v's can run just as hard just gotta know the right set ups

Well there's the problem: the auto. I have not once seen a fast auto LS1 that wasn't an all out race car. Don't know why, but I haven't.

But I've seen plenty of manual, street tire, bolt on LS1s in the 12s.

What you left off from your car was that you were on slicks with a 4.30 rear gear. Wanna bet who would win if you paired up with a STOCK 6-speed LS1 with slicks and gears? I'll take that bet ALL day long (nothing at all against you and your car). Well....assuming the LS1's rear end stayed in one piece.

 

[1fun281]

Well there's the problem: the auto. I have not once seen a fast auto LS1 that wasn't an all out race car. Don't know why, but I haven't.

But I've seen plenty of manual, street tire, bolt on LS1s in the 12s.

What you left off from your car was that you were on slicks with a 4.30 rear gear. Wanna bet who would win if you paired up with a STOCK 6-speed LS1 with slicks and gears? I'll take that bet ALL day long (nothing at all against you and your car). Well....assuming the LS1's rear end stayed in one piece.

Well talking stock for stock the Ls1 is by far a more stout motor, but in comparison, its apples to oranges, 281 v 347 cubic inches... Plus most LS1 have a decent SLP exhaust from the factory not 6 cats and 2 mufflers like a 2v, its not as godly as the drivers think them to be, we have 281 cubic inches, and can go 13.80, stock, on good tires, they have 347 cubic inches on tires will go 13.2 to me the size different and difference in 1/4 mile is kinda pathetic. But were arguing here not stock for stock, OP asked can a V1 2v take an LS1, should have no problem.

Again not on slicks but Nt555R drag radials and 4.30 gears cams and longtubes untuned, with no suspension went 12.90 @ 105 with a 1.9' in a 5speed making 3 shifts by the end of the track.

Point is Ls1 drivers laugh at all 2v's but they can run just as hard with the right combo, and with only 281 cubic inches!

The LS1 im comparing too went 12.70 @ 106 with a 1.7 60'with a tune longtubes, an auto and a converter, I dont understand how you say auto ls1 is slow, most auto ls1's are sick, and 6 speeds are only fast when the driver know how to drive them, But autos especially with a converter require no driving at all.

Bolt on 6 speed 347 in the 12's, bolt on 5 speed in the 12's, it just gets annoying everyone thinking 2v's will never win against an ls1, 2v are underdogs, but bolt on 2v with weight reduction and good suspension will leave some pissed off ls1 drivers

Anyways with a V1 OP should give the cocky LS1 driver a run for his money.

 

[Winters98GT]

Well talking stock for stock the Ls1 is by far a more stout motor, but in comparison, its apples to oranges, 281 v 347 cubic inches... Plus most LS1 have a decent SLP exhaust from the factory not 6 cats and 2 mufflers like a 2v, its not as godly as the drivers think them to be, we have 281 cubic inches, and can go 13.80, stock, on good tires, they have 347 cubic inches on tires will go 13.2 to me the size different and difference in 1/4 mile is kinda pathetic. But were arguing here not stock for stock, OP asked can a V1 2v take an LS1, should have no problem.

Again not on slicks but Nt555R drag radials and 4.30 gears cams and longtubes untuned, with no suspension went 12.90 @ 105 with a 1.9' in a 5speed making 3 shifts by the end of the track.

Point is Ls1 drivers laugh at all 2v's but they can run just as hard with the right combo, and with only 281 cubic inches!

The LS1 im comparing too went 12.70 @ 106 with a 1.7 60'with a tune longtubes, an auto and a converter, I dont understand how you say auto ls1 is slow, most auto ls1's are sick, and 6 speeds are only fast when the driver know how to drive them, But autos especially with a converter require no driving at all.

Bolt on 6 speed 347 in the 12's, bolt on 5 speed in the 12's, it just gets annoying everyone thinking 2v's will never win against an ls1, 2v are underdogs, but bolt on 2v with weight reduction and good suspension will leave some pissed off ls1 drivers

Anyways with a V1 OP should give the cocky LS1 driver a run for his money.

The funny thing about your entire rant is that you don't even know how many cubes the LS1 has. It is not a 347 motor.

That just goes to show you how clueless most narrow minded people are and how ignorant of the accomplishments of each car/motor combo.

 

[Deleted member 38176]

The funny thing about your entire rant is that you don't even know how many cubes the LS1 has. It is not a 347 motor.

That just goes to show you how clueless most narrow minded people are and how ignorant of the accomplishments of each car/motor combo.

LOL, so he was 1 cube off.....so clueless and narrow-minded!

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Yikes....this is starting to get silly now.

 

[Three50won]

What you left off from your car was that you were on slicks with a 4.30 rear gear.

I was about to call BS until I read this...haha.

 

[Three50won]

You know what I hate? I hate when a post gets soo convoluted that it turns into a urination match. The OP asks if he should be able to beat an LS1 with a given combo if he does certain mods. After a few replies people are talking about how they ran 12's with this, 10's with that, etc, etc, blah blah blah.

Based on what the OP stated in the first post he is installing a 8lb V1 S-Trim kit on an otherwise stock 2V. He is racing a LS1 that has full exhaust, intake manifold, and a tune. Now with those mods stated, and with both drivers not being the best drivers out there, I don't know how anyone thinks there's gonna be 112 mph traps, mid 12 sec passes, and the like.

We're not talking about cars with slicks or drag radials on it. We're not talking about cars that have been gutted to weigh 2200 lbs. We're not talking about cars with drag suspension. We're not talking about cars with extremely low gears, extremely high stall speeds, running 15 lbs of boost through highly modded combos. We're talking about a 2V engine in a New Edge with 8lbs through a V1 S-Trim vs a LS1 with a full exhaust, tune, and intake manifold...both cars with average drivers at the wheel. The LS1 might, MIGHT, do a mid to high 13 depending on the driver. The Stang MIGHT do a low to mid 13 depending on the driver. Either way, the Mustang should win against this particular LS1. Give the OP a bit more time to learn the car after the blower install, give him some better tires and a few more mods, and then that's another post for another time. But the here and now is what it is. And what it is is low to mid 13's in a Stang vs mid to high 13's in a LS1. And I wouldn't be surprised if the LS1 doesn't even make it into the 13's. Let's face it, some of the LS1 owners have a lousy launch because they think they can rely on the top end to gain ground once they finally hook. I've seen them running low 14's and I've beaten them because of this. But on a 60 roll they'll eat me up. This isn't a 60 roll we're talking about tho. This is a 1/4 mile drag race. And the Mustang will win...but there won't be any 12 sec passes or 110+ mph traps. Sorry but that's where I stand and if I'm wrong and the cars do better than what I think then I'm wrong and I'll be the first to admit it after seeing a time slip.

 

[Winters98GT]

LOL, so he was 1 cube off.....so clueless and narrow-minded!

Pretty much. Think a little harder about that. Not knowing basic knowledge about a car is a red flag for not knowing what chit somebody is ranting on.

If a t56 fbody with bolt ons or a 2v pi car at 8psi with exhaust can't run 12's, then that is just crappy driving.

 

[1fun281]

Pretty much. Think a little harder about that. Not knowing basic knowledge about a car is a red flag for not knowing what chit somebody is ranting on.

If a t56 fbody with bolt ons or a 2v pi car at 8psi with exhaust can't run 12's, then that is just crappy driving.

I guess 1 cube off means i dont know chit about this subject, i must be clueless and narrow minded because i was 1 cube off, especially about ls1 combos, because i have more friends with ls1's then i do with 2v's either way i am trying to stick up and bring a better name out for the 2v crowd, everyone gets scared of an ls1 owners talk but theyre not as impressive as talked up to be.

Whats clueless and narrow minded is that you read that entire rant, and zoned in on the mistake of 1 cubic inch thats pretty narrow minded if you ask me...
Atleast we both agree on one thing both cars should be in the 12.70-12.90 range atleast

 

[Three50won]

I guess 1 cube off means i dont know chit about this subject, i must be clueless and narrow minded because i was 1 cube off, especially about ls1 combos, because i have more friends with ls1's then i do with 2v's either way i am trying to stick up and bring a better name out for the 2v crowd, everyone gets scared of an ls1 owners talk but theyre not as impressive as talked up to be.

Whats clueless and narrow minded is that you read that entire rant, and zoned in on the mistake of 1 cubic inch thats pretty narrow minded if you ask me...
Atleast we both agree on one thing both cars should be in the 12.70-12.90 range atleast

Mustang owners seem to stick up for the LS1 more and more these days. I can see being real and stating whether a Camaro or Mustang will win...but it seems like some of us are a bit deluded when it comes to what an LS1 can or can't do.

Oh and BTW, you were actually 1.3 cu in off...sheesh man, get a clue...hahaha!!

 

[Noobz347]

Yikes....this is starting to get silly now.

All these threads turn out this way. What's funny is that records have been obsolete for quite some time now... All the broken ones show up here though.

You'd think that with the abilty to put over 3000 songs on a cell phone that somone might play a different tune.

 

[Night Shifter]

I can vouge for 1fun281's wins againts ls1's

 

[98COBRA281]

I can vouge for 1fun281's wins againts ls1's

me to

i was the driver in one of the money races

 

[sneaky98gt]

Again not on slicks but Nt555R drag radials and 4.30 gears cams and longtubes untuned, with no suspension went 12.90 @ 105 with a 1.9' in a 5speed making 3 shifts by the end of the track.

...

Bolt on 6 speed 347 in the 12's, bolt on 5 speed in the 12's, it just gets annoying everyone thinking 2v's will never win against an ls1, 2v are underdogs, but bolt on 2v with weight reduction and good suspension will leave some pissed off ls1 drivers

There are about as many "bolt on" 2 valves in the 12s as there are stock LS1s in the 12s. And even fewer of those 2-valves are there without weight reduction and/or suspension.

There's a pretty huge difference between a 12.20-12.40 and a 12.90. And if you are running the same 12 second times with your mods that a bolt on LS1 is, then the LS1 needs either a driver or a set of tires.

And for reference, last time I went to the track, I had some good side-by-side passes with a mild cam, exhaust, tuned LS1 (on street tires) that knew how to drive. We were both running in the 11s....

The LS1 might, MIGHT, do a mid to high 13 depending on the driver.

Incorrect.

The Stang MIGHT do a low to mid 13 depending on the driver.

Correct

And I wouldn't be surprised if the LS1 doesn't even make it into the 13's.

If that turns out to be the case, then we don't need to even be arguing. If a pretty much full bolt on, tuned LS1 doesn't make it into the 13s, then this entire thread is 100% pointless.

*Goes out and makes thread asking for chances against a Bughatti Veyron under assumption that Veyron driver can't drive*

This is a 1/4 mile drag race. And the Mustang will win...but there won't be any 12 sec passes or 110+ mph traps.

I'm in a hurry right now and don't have time to go back and re-read everything, but I haven't seen anything mentioned about this happening at a drag strip. I don't want to get the thread locked, but if I was a betting man, I'd say this is going down in ole' Mexico. And most races that go down in ole' Mexico aren't from a dig. And if it's from a roll, the Mustang is not going to win.

 

[Night Shifter]

1fun's runs were from a dig...dont know abouth the others though not trying to start arguements, just stating facts...