What is the best H/C/I combo for a stock

[89CopCoupe]

No problem ... at some point we all were new to this power game ... I still have plenty of questions myself ... usually dealing with other Stangers personal experiences with certain manufacturers parts ...

The best advice I can give you is to never, never buy any part just because the price is cheap ... research it fully before buying ... some quality parts are cheap, yet some are just cheap cr@p

 

[glenn95gt]

If you plan on stepping up to a 347 (in the relative near future) you are better off with the 185's and an RPM II intake ...

These parts are a little big for the 302 (loss of low end torque) but will pull hard up top ... then when switched will compliment the 347 perfectly.

On the otherhand, the 165's & Performer will work perfect on a 302, and also make good street torque on a 347, but will starve the 347 a bit on the top end. (Both 165's & 185's flow better than GT40X heads.)

Another thing to keep in mind is injector size and settings the stock EFI computer has. An engine that pulls more air will want more fuel to maximize its power potential.

The AFR 185's would be a better bet if you plan on stepping up to a 347, but the differences will be minumal stepping up from the 165's. On my car I went from 165's to 185's and really didn't see a big difference. maybe 1-3 mph more on the 1/4 mile. Might be a lot to some people, but to me, not worth it. Also have you looked into the TFS set ups. The twisted wedge heads might be best for you sarting off on a 302, then stepping up to a 347, you can still use the heads, and just swap the cam. saves on having to get another set of heads.

A typical tried and true street/daily driver setup for a 302:
AFR165, Ford 'E' cam, GT40 intake (better than Performer), 70tb, 75maf, 24# injectors ... decent exhaust, fuel pump and afpr ...
These combined parts usually make in the neighborhood of 285hp/315tq at the wheels with a nice broad power curve. That's a lot better than the stock 190/260 while retaining good driveability.

Combo looks good, but there is more you can get out of this combo, I would Go with the performer intake, a better cam, maybe from Flowtechinduction, or hitechmotorsport, go with a 65mm TB and all the supporting parts.

A good street/daily driver setup for a 347:
AFR185, Comp Cams XE266HR or custom, RPM II, 70tb, 75+maf, 30# injectors ... decent exhaust, fuel pump and afpr ...
These will make roughly 360hp/370tq at the wheels with a broad power curve.

Again a very nice set up, but why not go with the XE274HR, you are depriving the potential of the 347 with the XE266HR cam. But if you can afford it, get s cutom cam.

 

[Kerpal]

yeah I knnow I meant with a stock bottom end... I was also talking about the rest of the car...not as to which h/c/i..but for the dyno. I wanted to know what they would do on a stock car...stock headers. mid pipe...and all that ****...

There's no point upgrading your HCI and keeping the stock exhaust components as a bottleneck... if you're planning to upgrade the exhaust later on when you have more money just pick whichever HCI combo best fits your goals and budget... anything that's at all better than stock is going to be held back by the stock exhaust components, and you may need a bigger maf, tb and injectors for certain combos as well.

If you're looking for cheap, ported E7's, ported stock lower intake and the stock cam looks like a nice setup for the money... you'd still be losing power without a bigger exhaust path though. Even on my bone stock engine I noticed a power loss at higher rpm going from an off road H pipe back to the stock catted H pipe.

 

[89CopCoupe]

The AFR 185's would be a better bet if you plan on stepping up to a 347, but the differences will be minumal stepping up from the 165's. On my car I went from 165's to 185's and really didn't see a big difference. maybe 1-3 mph more on the 1/4 mile. Might be a lot to some people, but to me, not worth it. Also have you looked into the TFS set ups. The twisted wedge heads might be best for you sarting off on a 302, then stepping up to a 347, you can still use the heads, and just swap the cam. saves on having to get another set of heads.

The 185's have gains from 20-50 up top on a lot of combos ... I know this is much to me. TF parts are good as well ... the heads flow just a bit under the 185's ... soooo, I'd get the 185's.

Combo looks good, but there is more you can get out of this combo, I would Go with the performer intake, a better cam, maybe from Flowtechinduction, or hitechmotorsport, go with a 65mm TB and all the supporting parts.

There's always more to be had, but squeezing ever ounce out of a car isn't that big of a difference to you and not worth it, remember 5.0Must/SF just tested all these intakes ... the GT40 was better than the Performer across the board, plus looks 20x better...

Again a very nice set up, but why not go with the XE274HR, you are depriving the potential of the 347 with the XE266HR cam. But if you can afford it, get s cutom cam.

Again, there's always more to be had ... the 266 provides a little better area under the curve (average power numbers) than the 274 ... I think Lyncher is more interested in a street car than a track car anyways ... otherwise he should just skip the hydraulic rollers all together and go with a huge solid roller and 205 heads ...

...and as for me personally, I'm not interested in pissing contests ... please don't quote my advice unless you feel a dire need to point out something that was wrong ... if you have combo ideas of your own give him that advice and let him decide. ... that's all.

 

[Lyncher]

There's no point upgrading your HCI and keeping the stock exhaust components as a bottleneck... if you're planning to upgrade the exhaust later on when you have more money just pick whichever HCI combo best fits your goals and budget... anything that's at all better than stock is going to be held back by the stock exhaust components, and you may need a bigger maf, tb and injectors for certain combos as well.

If you're looking for cheap, ported E7's, ported stock lower intake and the stock cam looks like a nice setup for the money... you'd still be losing power without a bigger exhaust path though. Even on my bone stock engine I noticed a power loss at higher rpm going from an off road H pipe back to the stock catted H pipe.

I am going to upgrade the enitre exhaust...I plan on getting bbk LT's o/r h and idk what cat back ...I am going to do this before I do the h/c/i.

 

[Lyncher]

Ok thanks a lot to all of you for the help...so what kind of power numbers would I be looking at with these parts: Probe 347 street fighter stroker kit, aft afr 185's, rpm II intake, not sure what cam, probably custom, 70mm tb, 75 maf, soem type of fuel pump, bbk lt's o/r X pipe, and idk what cat back

thanks

 

[glenn95gt]

The 185's have gains from 20-50 up top on a lot of combos ... I know this is much to me. TF parts are good as well ... the heads flow just a bit under the 185's ... soooo, I'd get the 185's.



There's always more to be had, but squeezing ever ounce out of a car isn't that big of a difference to you and not worth it, remember 5.0Must/SF just tested all these intakes ... the GT40 was better than the Performer across the board, plus looks 20x better...



Again, there's always more to be had ... the 266 provides a little better area under the curve (average power numbers) than the 274 ... I think Lyncher is more interested in a street car than a track car anyways ... otherwise he should just skip the hydraulic rollers all together and go with a huge solid roller and 205 heads ...

...and as for me personally, I'm not interested in pissing contests ... please don't quote my advice unless you feel a dire need to point out something that was wrong ... if you have combo ideas of your own give him that advice and let him decide. ... that's all.

oh no no pissing contest, just pointing out some things he could go with and still be very streetable. And I hope you don't believe everything you read in that magazine.

 

[Lyncher]

Ok thanks a lot to all of you for the help...so what kind of power numbers would I be looking at with these parts: Probe 347 street fighter stroker kit, aft afr 185's, rpm II intake, not sure what cam, probably custom, 70mm tb, 75 maf, soem type of fuel pump, bbk lt's o/r X pipe, and idk what cat back

thanks

..ne1? PLEASE!!!!!

 

[glenn95gt]

350+ to the wheels. depending on the cam, the tune and all the supporting parts.

 

[89CopCoupe]

... And I hope you don't believe everything you read in that magazine.

Which magazine? 5.0/SF? If so, I would believe a lot more what they would say, than you or I ... is that crazy

 

[9250stang]

Ok thanks a lot to all of you for the help...so what kind of power numbers would I be looking at with these parts: Probe 347 street fighter stroker kit, aft afr 185's, rpm II intake, not sure what cam, probably custom, 70mm tb, 75 maf, soem type of fuel pump, bbk lt's o/r X pipe, and idk what cat back

thanks

I'd guess 375. That would be one he!! of a setup. Your looking at a good 5-6k for all that stuff.

 

[90Notch]

"Probe 347 street fighter stroker kit, aft afr 185's, rpm II intake, not sure what cam, probably custom, 70mm tb, 75 maf, soem type of fuel pump, bbk lt's o/r X pipe, and idk what cat back"

Way too many factors left out to give a decent estimate but probably safe to say anywhere between 320rwhp to 380rwhp.

Compression and cam plays a huge part in the combo like mentioned the 266HR will give plenty of torque but will die out @5000rpm and 320-330rwhp. Not enough lobe area to support anything more. A healthy 347 with around 10:1cr and above parts and a X303 should put you right around 350rwhp. What do you want from the combo?

 

[Lyncher]

What do you want from the combo?

I basically want a bad ass street car that I could bring to the track every once in a while and kick ass! A little bragging rights wouldnt hurt either! I looked into it and it would be around 5700 for everything...but as you all know...you always spend more than you planned! ...I would also like to hit the 350rwhp mark!

 

[bluevenom867]

Dont the FRPP short blocks use a Sportsman block?

 

[90Notch]

Shot for 10:1cr and Crower 15513 (w/1.7's) cam will give you what you're looking for. Nice lump at idle, put up good numbers and comfortable to cruise around town with. Of course a custom is always nice but what ever cam you choose make sure to get correct springs and vlv train geometry is set up correctly!

 

[Lyncher]

OK cool thanks... Does anyone know roughly how much it would cost to have the 347 kit installed on a stock block. It does need to be bored .30 over I believe so how much would I be looking at for just that?

I was also considering another option, how much power would this give me: stock bottom end, afr 165s, rpm II intake, custom cam, 70 mm tb, 42lb injectors, maf, idk what fuel pump, and a powerdyne at 5-7 psi ... how much power would that result in?

Which ever set up I go with I would like to keep the stock block!

 

[90Notch]

Assuming stock block is solid just get a decent set of heads and used Edel RPM (old style) then slap a SC on it..should be able to make 350rwhp easily with a good tune.

 

[Lyncher]

Assuming stock block is solid just get a decent set of heads and used Edel RPM (old style) then slap a SC on it..should be able to make 350rwhp easily with a good tune.

...how much boost are we talkin here?

 

[89CopCoupe]

... Compression and cam plays a huge part in the combo like mentioned the 266HR will give plenty of torque but will die out @5000rpm and 320-330rwhp. Not enough lobe area to support anything more ....

Not to cause an argument, just as reference for S&G and comparison sake ... in 5.0/SF Feb 2004 ... Here's a documented dyno test on a n/a CHP 347, Ford Z304 heads (equivelent to 185s with lower compression), Comp 1.6RR, RPMII, Accufab 70, Pro-M, Electric water pump, 1-3/4" LongTubes into mufflers, stock computer, stock fuel rails and 36# (said could get away with 30s) ... and 3 Comp hydraulic roller grind cams:

RPM ..... XE266HR ..... XE274HR ..... XE282HR
3,000 ..... 235 - 412 ..... 230 - 403 ..... 223 - 389
3,100 ..... 242 - 409 ..... 237 - 400 ..... 223 - 389
3,200 ..... 249 - 408 ..... 245 - 402 ..... 243 - 398
3,300 ..... 258 - 411 ..... 252 - 401 ..... 255 - 406
3,400 ..... 267 - 413 ..... 261 - 402 ..... 265 - 409
3,500 ..... 279 - 418 ..... 269 - 404 ..... 271 - 407
3,600 ..... 288 - 420 ..... 280 - 408 ..... 278 - 405
3.700 ..... 297 - 421 ..... 289 - 410 ..... 285 - 404
3.800 ..... 304 - 419 ..... 298 - 411 ..... 293 - 405
3,900 ..... 313 - 421 ..... 306 - 412 ..... 304 - 408
4,000 ..... 323 - 424 ..... 317 - 415 ..... 316 - 415
4,100 ..... 334 - 428 ..... 329 - 421 ..... 328 - 420
4,200 ..... 345 - 431 ..... 340 - 424 ..... 339 - 423
4,300 ..... 357 - 435 ..... 350 - 427 ..... 349 - 426
4,400 ..... 367 - 438 ..... 358 - 427 ..... 359 - 428
4,500 ..... 377 - 440 ..... 370 - 431 ..... 368 - 429
4,600 ..... 385 - 439 ..... 379 - 433 ..... 378 - 431
4,700 ..... 392 - 437 ..... 389 - 434 ..... 387 - 432
4,800 ..... 398 - 435 ..... 397 - 434 ..... 396 - 433
4,900 ..... 404 - 432 ..... 403 - 432 ..... 405 - 433
5,000 ..... 409 - 429 ..... 410 - 430 ..... 415 - 436
5,100 ..... 414 - 425 ..... 416 - 428 ..... 423 - 435
5,200 ..... 418 - 422 ..... 421 - 424 ..... 430 - 434
5,300 ..... 421 - 417 ..... 424 - 420 ..... 435 - 431
5,400 ..... 423 - 411 ..... 428 - 416 ..... 439 - 426
5,500 ..... 424 - 404 ..... 431 - 411 ..... 443 - 423
5,600 ..... 426 - 399 ..... 433 - 405 ..... 444 - 416
5,700 ..... 426 - 392 ..... 435 - 400 ..... 446 - 410
5,800 ..... 425 - 384 ..... 436 - 394 ..... 446 - 403
5,900 ..... 425 - 378 ..... 438 - 390 ..... 446 - 396
6,000 ..... 426 - 372 ..... 439 - 384 ..... 447 - 391
6,100 ..... 416 - 358 ..... 435 - 374 ..... 447 - 385
6,200 .......... n/a ............. n/a ......... 447 - 379
6,300 .......... n/a ............. n/a ......... 436 - 363

Avg power from 3,000 - 6,100 (stock rev limiter 6,250)
266 = 356 - 417
274 = 355 - 414
282 = you do the math.

Take this for what it's worth and make your own analasis ... some like power up top ... I prefer a broad power curve for the street myself

 

[Lyncher]

OK cool thanks... Does anyone know roughly how much it would cost to have the 347 kit installed on a stock block. It does need to be bored .30 over I believe so how much would I be looking at for just that?

I was also considering another option, how much power would this give me: stock bottom end, afr 165s, rpm II intake, custom cam, 70 mm tb, 42lb injectors, maf, idk what fuel pump, and a powerdyne at 5-7 psi ... how much power would that result in?

Which ever set up I go with I would like to keep the stock block!

ne1??