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Discussion in 'Special Production' started by 88-378, Feb 22, 2008.
Another example of drug use.
Especially for a car with no details, that appears to be modified.
Edit: Says it has a 306, i would think that car would be worth less not more than a stock one.
That car has been making the rounds for a few months now. The guy that has it seems to have a thing for overpricing modified cars. Check out the rest of his inventory.
Modified or not that's way out of line.
question? why do you guys shun modified cars so much? Just seems that alot of people in the Saleen world have that opinion.
i am modifying my car but i am also keeping MOST of the stock parts for future value. My opinion, is that the fox Saleens were great back in the day, but can be mush improved to compete with current models out there!
20 years does make for a lot of improvement in susp, engine etc..
I dont think anyone has anything against modified cars here. In general, modified cars of any type will sell for less than an original example.
If i am buying a real saleen, the only hands i want to of been in the cookie jar are mine.
I think suspension mods are a plus. I just see engine mods as a risk.
But why in gods name does this 54k car have a 306? A 306 is no better than a 302 which suggest that they blew up the original engine. There is little or no performance gain.
I would certainly pay more for an unmolested saleen than one that has had the engine apart.
Exhaust mods i don't mind either, as long as it's not cheap crap.
There is even another 88 ebay, looks to be in nice condition, but is heavily modified, the guy doesn't have the sense to remove the nitrous kit from the car and the ad, if i saw nitrous on a collectable, i'd run for the border.
Fast or not fast, so far my favorite was the red 90 with low mileage and in flawless condition that a guy here bought.
These cars are like women, you can get a fast one that's been ****ting around for a few years, or you can get a slow one that nobody has been with, that you can keep for life.
Much as others have stated, I have nothing against modified cars. Hell, look at my LX and my wife's Cobra in my sig. That said, from a collector standpoint, a modified car is never worth as much as an original car. All I was pointing out is that the guy has a bunch of modified stuff that is way overpriced and he's asking top collector $$ +++. A couple of months ago, he had a red Fox coupe with a 350 in it for some ungodly amount.
For me, if depends on the quality of the work and what parts were used. Updates that are hidden or hard to spot are cool.
Personally I'm a fan of period stuff. So, I would not turn an eye on a tasteful modded Saleen if a percentage of the parts can be traced to the SPP catalog and/or and old Ford Motorsport booklet.
Think how much neater the black/gold '93 would be if it had the SALEEN intake, a Vortech S/C, era correct Saleen Boost & Fuel gauges, SSC headers, SALEEN sparkplug wires, etc... etc. Details can make a car.
Hmmm. Interested parties for the black/gold should run a Carfax and title history for the states it lived in and maybe contact previous owners before going knee deep. Heard a rumor about a black/gold '93 'vert that was once in TN.
If you want to Modify or Butcher a Foxbody Saleen, why not build a Saleen Clone. Modifying a Saleen tends to lessen the value of the original car. A true collector will never touch one that has been modified.
By the time someone sources the Saleen parts and a solid LX or GT... they could have purchased a project Saleen in need of cosmetics and/or mechanics. When building a clone, at the end of the day its still a clone. Then other bystanders will say "...it's only a clone" and maybe "...what a waste of parts."
A “true collector” is a figment. Stock and original cars are safe investments. There is a sect in every hobby that seeks stock vehicles for investment. The collector or enthusiast is buying what talks to them… whether it’s stock or not.
There's enough FOX Saleens that every vehicle doesn't have to represent itself as it looked and drove when new/built. That would almost be boring. Or being a Nazi.
Pardon me while I go find an owner of an after-the-fact Weber or Paxton blown equipped GT 350 so that I can request a discount sale price.
In fact, a GT350 that has been modified with a Paxton or Weber setup will be worth less than an original, so I guess it will have a discounted price.
The reality is, you have people who do not care if it is modified or not, but some people like myself and several others on here would prefer that it be as original as possible, with a big emphasis on the drive-train.
Well, do you consider my mods tasteful so far? Keep in mind, i have retained most of the stock parts...
FRPP stainless headers with Magnaflow catted stainless H and cat back. H&R springs, bilsteins, steeda aluminum lc's, FRPP uppers, rebuilt rear with 4.10's and moser axles, Tremec 3550, subframes, oil and water temp guages in center a/c vent, 3 3/4 tack on the right of the guage cluster, totally redone interior with leather.
Everything i am doing to this car is top notch using the best possible parts. i am also going to build a 347 stroker to replace what is in there. i'll keep the engine for future if i decide to put back to stock but probably won't.
I don't see myself as a true collector I guess.
I like that comparison! However, which one will be more fun when you ride her?
Is this a take off of the commercial that asks:
"When you turn your car on does it return the favor?"
I would keep things period/ era correct. Cosmetically not much that would deviate from the late ‘80s to mid 1990s. Visibly parts from the Saleen catalog (or parts made by their suppliers) and vintage Motorsport stuff.
Like the FRPP small block shorty headers are different than then old Motorsport version, a change to fit the GT-40 P heads (I believe). The tubes are bent different.
You can find MCA vintage Mustangs (K codes, Bosses, Machs) in concourse classes running hidden stroker motors.
What you have planned can be undone. There’s nothing that will be destroyed when changing gears ratios, cat-back exhaust etc. I forget what’s involved with the accessory gauge cluster vent replacement. If you have to cut or trim the dash to install it, think it over. If you do install the gauges, source an original Saleen plate or one from Chicane.
Save whatever original parts you have.
For the most part original cars or ones returned to “as built” drive the market. They tend to be the cars people want and the ones that attract outside investments. Which goes to the “true collector” statement. Which is a meaningless title.
The enthusiast is going to want what they want. Whether it be a 1,000 mile OE car, a completely restored OE car, maybe one that’s out in left field ready for track day, or something in-between.
With late model cars… it’s different that the classic and vintage stuff. Few people were mothballing cars in the 1960s and 1970s. When you see one of those original cars, there’s usually an interesting story that goes along with it. A percentage of these late model Mustangs are missing the story and are in greater numbers. When you buy an old car, you’re buying a narrative.
It’s your car and you’re the one that needs to be happy. Do you want it to be your car or one that’s socially accepted by a large invisible body of people who don’t matter? You’re keeping the car on the streets and in the public eye and that’s important. Everyone with a hidden collection or trailered vehicles should thank you.
Davidj, good points. And no i haven't cut anything on the dash to add the guages.
I guess if I found a truly low mileage fox saleen, i most likely wouldn't modify it. But being that mine had 105K i felt the need to. And yeah i am keeping everything so no big deal.
The Saleens are getting hard to find with low/low miles.
i think i may look into buying a '93 Cobra and keep that in stock conditon. Easier to find with super low miles.
Don't do the a/c gauges in the vents, i did it, and am about to undo it when i find vents that match my 90 dash.
Screw the tach, they are gay other than in race cars. Get a mini shift light instead, they are much less of an eye sore.
Don't do a tremec, do a g-force T5, the tremec does not have the feel of a t5, i know, i have a tremec.
And a gforce is still a t5.
Use 3.73's, they are better for a 5 speed street car.
I'm all for braking and suspension upgrades, i'd search for saleen originals first before going to other aftermarket brands.
For the gauges, consider one of these:http://www.gaugeplates.com/ford_fox.php
If you already have an aftermarket radio.
As far as real engine work goes, such as a 347, nobody really has to know you have one. And using parts that came on other year saleens IMO would be a + too.
Such as a saleen intake, maybe worked one off an s351 (i know the lower is a 351, but a 302 lower should not be hard to locate), which i also believe they used edelbrock and twisted wedge heads on too.
Already did the tach and the vent gauges. It's not a huge tach like the 5" one. It's smaller. Looks good. i thought it would look gay too, but it did come out nice. Besides, the new autometer tach is much more accurate. There was almost a 300 rpm difference!!!!
The suspension is all done too! i have an AJE K member with bilsteins and H&R springs. I kept all the old stuff. I tried to go stock Saleen, with NOS Monroe GP's and the springs it came with but it really rode like crap. It's much better now.
The Tremec was in it when i bought it. If it gives me trouble, I will go to a G-Force.
A lot of people also said not to do the leather like I did, but when they saw the pictures they liked it. Besides, I am not in this car to sell it EVER! It is just a fun toy to play with on nice sunny days.
As far as the intake for the stroker, i have an actual '93 Cobra upper/lower that is being ported.
The car looks totally stock. I even spent $750 on the wheels getting them redone at Wheel Wizard here in GA. they look gorgeous!
I am going to take some pics when I get her back and put all the door panels on. It is a major PITA to adjust the windows in a vert.
Other han that, my next acquisition will be a low mileage SSC or '93 Cobra. Both i will keep totally stock except for maybe a SC. I would love to buy a nice 90-93 Saleen with the SC already on. I do need more room though to store it.
Hey, not all of us can be like RedGtvert! If I got a car like his red Saleen, i would never touch it.
did i ever tell you how much i hate him? J/K
does any body remember i think it was hemmings a 91 convert sat for sale for what seemed like two years i thought it was rediculously overpriced but eventually he got his number thats probably whats going to happen too this guy it sit there for a couple of years until saleen converts get really rare and then sell he's the kind of guy who won't move on the price
Exactly!! Why not do something that will improve it? A simple thing like big brakes can make a huge difference, you can save everything to put it back to stock.
This says it all!!
Personally I am so glad that when I got #77 it was already modified.....and I kept going..... It has tons more power and handles like a completely different car
Will I ever win a concours class? NO! I don't get to talk about how I have every original nut, clamp, spark plug, even air in the original tires, ...... But will it blow the doors off of everyone there?
Don't get me wrong everyone has to do what makes them happy and if keeping your car stock is it then great!
I just like working and doing something on my cars. It would drive me crazy to do nothing....nothing at all.....clean it thats it. But hey thats just me, I have always been that way. When I go to a Mustang show and walk through the vintage concours class I do appreciate all the cars......then when I see a vintage modified car with suspension, wheels, brakes, engine, etc,etc. Those are the cars I really check out and drool over.
I love building a engine so I could care less if someone had been into it, it wouldn't matter. #77 had problems and I had to take it apart to find out what was wrong. It was awesome doing it! It's pretty cool to know that you built the motor yourself!
#58 I am putting big brakes on right now....It has the stock GT brakes and I just can't see keeping them "stock" why?? So I can go to a show and say "Yeah the brakes are terrible but hey it's all stock"! Or the flimsy rear control arm's, it only takes a few hours to swap them. I'll just save the stock stuff......so it can take up space.
I guess mine will never be worth an all original, but I don't care. It makes me happy.
At the end of the day after taking both out for a run on the open roads (with some twisties of course) guess which one puts a bigger smile on my face?