Timing Issue

[AKA3Toes]

---New findings cause for revision of thread `88 crank but no Start (Crank Sensor Dr_EluSivE?), so moving to start new thread... if that makes sense.

-Recap:

---Had starting issues. Found code 84 (showed me EGR solenoid was bad on the non-vented side), code 21 (it's cold out, but it's out of range as well) and 24 (TPS fell 0.10v and was reset/adjusted). Spark was present, all else tested good, including bench testing TFI (3 times w/14 second cool-down times between) at What-oZone and it would even cough slightly if I guess the initial spark fell at the right time on the right cylinder. Ether (starting fluid) wouldn't even kick her over, so it sent me up front to view the timing mark.

---Pulled all wires off spark plugs and grounded #1. Key on, hooked up timing light and rotated crank, timing light triggered @ 8°-10°. Pulled sight plug out and no timing mark. Key off, stuck finger in hole (can't help it, I'm funny that way) and timing belt was loose, not severely but I would imagine enough for teeth to walk over cog. So, pulled drive belts, water pump pulley (I'm pissed, new water pump, w/maybe 100 miles, looks to have grease around exterior of bearing/seal) etc., started setting timing marks right on the cam gear and spotted a timing mark on the accessory drive gear. Going to set it straight and turn the key to verify that's the problem. Then decide how many of these parts I will purchase/return. 14-month old timing belt, 1 month old (freakin POS Cardone... I flippin' knew* better!) water pump.

<s>---What's up with this accessory gear timing mark? I forget why it even has one. Do I install the belt correctly (temporarily) then rotate the assembly until the camshaft mark is at 4:30, pull the timing belt and rotate the accessory gear so that the timing mark is at 12:00? Can't find any reference to it.</s>

View attachment 203161

---Preempt Thank "youse"

-edit-

---To answer my own question, I would guess that the accessory drive gear runs the distributor (an oil pump?). So, yeah... all marks should be just as shown in the image, and then pulling & resetting the dizzy would be necessary.

---So, I hope I just cleaned the carbon off the valves. Worst I hope for would be a blown muffler. Neighbors probably thought there was a drive-by. Was a mighty loud pop.

---I have not purchased a FSM yet, though I did have a loaner when I did the timing belt last year. I purchased Michell1, but my workstation doesn't have a diskette drive, so I am having issues with "updating" to install the repair CDs. I had full intentions on doing this the right way, BTB (By The Book) as I was taught back in Small Gas Engines and reminded in every year from automotive 101 and up in HS as part of daily lessons. Trust me, every time I took a sip of my coffee, I was missing the book I was taught to at least glance at.

---Hope it wasn't anything detrimental, as the bang occurred after the engine stopped cranking and I had a nice black powder smell under the hood along with some smoke.

 

[hotcobra03]

no start

dumb question...you do have the wires on cap in the right direction?

 

[Delray Dude]

yes. the 2.3 up to 89 the auxilary shaft is dependant upon being set when timing belt is replaced. the 90 and up doesn't matter - as it just runs the oil pump.

the nice thing is that the 2.3 is a non-interference motor so no damage to the internal of the engine should have occured - other than rattleing some carbon loose.

set the thing to TDC and reset the dizzy and you should be ok

 

[AKA3Toes]

---Sorry, it is an `88. Made note of that in last thread but forgot that bit of info here.

---Yep, I knew it wasn't an interference engine, I was just worried about the possibility of a cracked piston or valve. Worse has happened due to cross-fire, and that's about what this would have been equal to IMHO. What type of valve seats are they? Inserts or cut into the cast of the head? The tick is pretty much obvious it's coming from an exhaust valve. I would say possibly #3.

---I pulled the plugs on all 4 and inspected for broken porcelain. None found, so I figured what was done was done and even if bad, it couldn't do much worse. So thinking I may pumped a lifter dry, after warm up, I ran it at about 2300RPMs for about 20 seconds to prime the lifter(s) JIC that was the culprit. The ticking quieted down a bit and after repairing an exhaust leak (bolting the exhaust back together where a 2-bolt flange was mid-way to the muffler), I fired it back up and it seemed to be gone. After goosing the throttle to about 2000RPM, it came back down and ran smooth... then the dang tick came back. My bud said it sounded like piston slap to him. No knock or anything while holding it at 2300RPM, ran great, guess we'll see. I'll reset the memory and grab some codes again tomorrow or the day after. Guess a compression test wouldn't hurt either. What's the norm on the `88 2.3? LX?

---Appreciate the answers and thoughts. Thanks all.

 

[Delray Dude]

I'm not sure of the compression numbers should be - can run one on my 88 tonight and see what i get.

As for lifter noise - i had a cracked head i replaced in my 93 and i went to fire it up (new gaskets/belt/pump/etc) had the dreaded lifter clack. I run mechanical guages on the car and knew i had a solid 65 psi on the oil, so I drove it to my girlfriends house - keeping an eye on everything. The lifter noise was bad for the 1st 2-3 miles (i ran the motor between 1500 and 3000) and started to fade in noise a little after the 3rd mile. She lives about 5 miles away and the noise was gone about the time i pulled up to her place.

I left her place a few hours later - had the lifter noise - but still good oil pressure and the noise went away after about a mile or so. The next few cold starts had the same symptoms but went away quicker and quicker. I'd suggest you run the car lightly around the block for 5-10 mins - it might be as simple as oil needing to get back up in there and getting set back in place.

 

[AKA3Toes]

... it might be as simple as oil needing to get back up in there and getting set back in place...

---Sounds good to me. I'm use to the hydraulic lifter scene, so that won't bother me much. I'll add 1/2oz of my Lucas Zinc-Plus to the fresh oil, did an oil change just before this and hadn't yet added the zinc.

---When you installed the head, how long was it apart and maybe possible you had slight corrosion or dust on the lobe(s)? Did you maybe mix up the lifters or something? One or two happens sometimes. The tickity tick you heard may have been lifter profile not matching the cam... seeing as how they were solid lifters.

 

[Delray Dude]

---Sounds good to me. I'm use to the hydraulic lifter scene, so that won't bother me much. I'll add 1/2oz of my Lucas Zinc-Plus to the fresh oil, did an oil change just before this and hadn't yet added the zinc.

---When you installed the head, how long was it apart and maybe possible you had slight corrosion or dust on the lobe(s)? Did you maybe mix up the lifters or something? One or two happens sometimes. The tickity tick you heard may have been lifter profile not matching the cam... seeing as how they were solid lifters.

It was almost a yank and replace issue for me. Well, sorta. I knew i had a crack and used the water glass treatment and sealed it for a year (and 15,000 miles too, i might add). When it finally let loose with another and bigger crack, i went to the junkyard. I found a nice 93 mustang and when i pulled the valve cover - you could tell the head was fairly fresh - almost looked new - nice and golden on the inside - so i yanked that head - cost me 35 bucks out the door (complete with the overhead cam and all lifters).

So I yanked the old head and immediately put the new one on - so never removed any of the valve or cam stuff off the head - maybe it was still breaking in. anyways been running fine for over a year now.