Are long tube headers much better than shorty headers? I've read that shortys are no better than a stock exhaust maniold but I find that hard to believe. I know the engine that it is going on will make a difference in the answer too. I'm building a 408 for mainly street use. I'm not looking for the absolute max hp for racing. It'll have aftermarket heads on it and the cam won't be too wild. The shortys will be easier to work with (that's why I would prefer them) but will there be a very noticeable difference between those and long tubes?
LONG TUBE VS SHORTY HEADERS
- Thread starter danny clemens
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I would say that shortys are a waste of money since long tubes are just a little bit more money. IMO Long tubes are the only way to go! But you left out one important aspect to purchasing exhaust is Ceramic coatings, yep it is going to cost more but it is worth it, to keep engine bay temps down and better exhaust scagvenging (sp)..... Just my thoughts, I am sure others will have the oposite opinion...
If you don't want the hassles of dealing with the long tubes, by all means go with shorty's. Or do a compromise and go with Tri-Y's. As for engine bay heat, I don't find that a problem without ceramic coatings. The main reason to go with shorty's or Tri-Y's are the fact that they have less of a space limitation than 4 into 1 long tubes and they don't create ground clearance problems.
Shortys are absolutely NOT a waste of money. Compare them to the log style manifolds and its not hard to tell the difference. While shorties make different power than long tubes (and arguably less) not having to deal with ground clearance, installation hassles, tranny linkage issues and PS drop brackets is more than a fair trade off for some.
65ShelbyClone
Founding Member
It's also easier to fit shorties into a car with power steering since there is no need for the steering ram drop bracket(which everyone says should be welded to the frame).
jspagna1
Member
On my 70, I had long tubes and I did not have any fitment problems and I had factory power steering, never had any ground clearance problems and mine was lowered 1-2 inches. But mine was an auto, so I can't speak to linkage and what not. But my brother has a 67 and we put long tubes on it and his is a standard, once again no clearance problems of any kind. But I am the type of person to go all out on the things I do. I can see how this subject can get into a pissing contest, that is why I am only stating my opinion.
I currently have long tubes in my '70.
They fit... I had to do the power cyln ram drop bracket mod (otherwise it melted the boot), and while I have scraped them on the odd speedbump I don't find the ground clearance to be a problem (even when lowered 2.5").
I've vowed to never put long tubes in a classic again. They are a huge PITA to get in/out of the car. They are close to everything and I'm always battleing the heat generated (ceramic coating would help here). In my opinion, the extra
hassle of the long tubes isn't worth the 3 or 4 HP you gain over a pair of shortys.
Now, in my 85 chev pickup it's another matter. Lots of space.. no heat issues.. I'd do the longtubes again any day.
They fit... I had to do the power cyln ram drop bracket mod (otherwise it melted the boot), and while I have scraped them on the odd speedbump I don't find the ground clearance to be a problem (even when lowered 2.5").
I've vowed to never put long tubes in a classic again. They are a huge PITA to get in/out of the car. They are close to everything and I'm always battleing the heat generated (ceramic coating would help here). In my opinion, the extra
hassle of the long tubes isn't worth the 3 or 4 HP you gain over a pair of shortys.
Now, in my 85 chev pickup it's another matter. Lots of space.. no heat issues.. I'd do the longtubes again any day.
My opinion would be, go with the long tubes. It also comes down to where in the RPM range that your power comes on.
If you're spending the bucks on a 408ci, than what's another five hundred or so for long tubes w/ coating. There might have to be a bend in one of the cylinder tubes, but for the right powerband, and 5k or 6k in a motor, $500 is nothing.
Look at it this way, if they dyno your motor after a build, the house headers with sensors are usually LONG TUBES!
Depending on where you are and your specs, I've got a brand new set of long tubes, JET-HOT coated.
You know, I though about it, they're for a 302.
With a 408, you'd go custom exhaust anyway. To help with clearance underneath, headers with the cone type fitting, NO GASKETS!!
If you're spending the bucks on a 408ci, than what's another five hundred or so for long tubes w/ coating. There might have to be a bend in one of the cylinder tubes, but for the right powerband, and 5k or 6k in a motor, $500 is nothing.
Look at it this way, if they dyno your motor after a build, the house headers with sensors are usually LONG TUBES!
Depending on where you are and your specs, I've got a brand new set of long tubes, JET-HOT coated.
You know, I though about it, they're for a 302.
With a 408, you'd go custom exhaust anyway. To help with clearance underneath, headers with the cone type fitting, NO GASKETS!!
65ShelbyClone
Founding Member
long tube headers usually make the most power, but are the hardest to fit. i say that unless this is going to be a race car, and you have indicated that it is not, go with the shorty headers. they are much better than the log exhaust manifolds, and fit better than the long tube headers, and you will never notice the difference on the street.
SadbutTrue
Founding Member
My heddman swap headers are borderline longtubes, and were cheap as all hell and easy to install.
Just don't do what I did and paint them with non-thermal resisting paint, or have a garage filled with smoke for a while after you start it up for the first time and it burns off all the paint heh.
Just don't do what I did and paint them with non-thermal resisting paint, or have a garage filled with smoke for a while after you start it up for the first time and it burns off all the paint heh.
i had hedmans on my 68 w/ 351 w. imo, yes they are cheap but you get what you pay for. the 1/4 inch flanges dont hold up very well and tend to warp. that and i have to jack my car up to the moon to get them in. i am buildign a 408 right now that is going to be pretty hot. and i am going to buy new headers. spin it to 6500 and it will be injected. im going with a set of hookers this time with thicker flanges and they will be coated.
I would vote long tubes. If I can fit long tubes with a 428 a 351w should be cake in comparison. It is kind of a pain to install... at least for me but they cleared my c6 just fine. I do hit an occasional speed bump but my front end is lowered by 3 inches or so. Since the engine is going to be out you may be able to get it in fairly easily. Shorties are suppose to be a bit more constrictive but seeing that you are pushing about 6.8 liters... I would go long tubes.
Kevin
Kevin
garner67
New Member
Has anyone published dyno comparisons between long tube and short tube headers to see the true power differences between both designs? If yes, can someone point me to those numbers?
I'm sure long tube headers pull more hp, but how much more? I'd like to see actual figures before making a final judgement.
I'm sure long tube headers pull more hp, but how much more? I'd like to see actual figures before making a final judgement.
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