Build Thread 1978 Mercury Cyclone. The pig is in the pen.

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#5,922
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madmike1157 said:
well alrighty then,..I'll get one of those big assed cans w/ a longer hose, and a built-in gauge and have at it. I don't know how much if anything is left in the car currently, I think the compressor cut off has kicked in, so it's probably really low. I don't know for sure about the compressor,..I'll have to start it and turn on the AC and look at it..
It's probably a loose fitting. Between the evap, the bulkhead fittings, the dryer, and the condenser there are a bagillion places (all literally inaccessible) that it could be.

* segway into nonsensical rambling....

On my way home from work last night, I was thinking that it would sure be nice to be able to eliminate some of the NVH from the engine as a result of my custom mounted solid engine mounts...Not a lot of room left there for a rubber cushion style mount,..do you guys know of any mfg that I can send those mounts to, and have them custom build a sandwiched style performance mount?

In other news, the car is back together, and one more "car" saturday night is gonna have to slip by due to bad weather...This was one of the big ones,...An entire small city center dedicated to keeping it's entertainment/dining/shopping venues open with a bunch of custom cars as the attraction/draw. Now, just looking out the window this morning, it's so freakin grey and wet,..there's no way any of that's gonna happen. I tell ya,..this has been the wettest year I've ever been through down here,....and it all manages to fall in and around the end of the week. Last year we were so dry here that our water source for the city dried up. You could literally walk across the dry lake bed that they drained dry...they had to pump water from a river as an emergency source. They imposed a water restriction on the residents, and didn't lift that until winter...Now this year, that lake filled to capacity by April, and has been enjoying some of the highest water levels ever....(The sky knows that there is a Monster in a garage down there somewhere, and is doing it's damnedest to keep him in there):fuss:

When I can ever get this thing back out again,..I'm gonna re-focus on the 10 p.s.i. goal....(That means that you and I will be talking real soon Steve);) I'm wanting to get that tune perfecto, so that I can take him up the street to the dyno and see what kind of Monster power he's making...

At 7 p.s.i. I can tell that the engine is making a bunch of torque because it has grunt,..but when it comes to pulling you in 3rd gear, it's lackluster at best....probably about 200 to 250 hp now would be my guess....But the torque,..
I really think that the engine will make 400 or more ft lbs at 10 p.s.i.

So I gotta make that work,......safely.
Click to expand...
The gauge on the can won't give you much useful information - it is the high side pressure that you need to worry about. If there is too much pressure on the high side, then things start breaking. About 350 PSI max is all you should ever see; when in doubt, check with the maker of the A/C compressor.


Just for reference, here's the R134 conversion checklist...

Here's some more help in the A/C arena...


R134a Air Conditioner Conversion and recharge instructions

Revised 14-Jul-2013 to add Low Pressure Cutout Switch adjustments for R134 & Freeze 12

Color Legend:
R134 specific items and instructions are in red text
Freeze 12 specific items instructions are in orange text
Note: R12 is available on eBay. Use the Freeze 12 instructions except use the R12 36 oz refrigerant charge with R12 refrigerant
Items and instructions common to both R134 and Freeze 12 are in black text

Tools and materials you will need:

Gauge set for recharging = $20-$120 – check out the pawn shops for a bargain before you pay retail.
See Harbor Freight Tools for an inexpensive gauge set.

image_21674.jpg


Vacuum pump – I use an old refrigerator compressor = $20- $40 at used appliance stores, or go to the Dump and get one for free. Be sure to have some R12 compatible oil handy to keep it lubed up properly.
vacuum-pump1-jpg.44395.jpg


O ring seal kit = $8.

Replacement accumulator/dryer assembly with hose $55-$75


Alternative refrigerant – Freeze 12 – it will allow you to skip flushing the system and reuse the original accumulator/dryer under certain conditions:
1.) If the A/C system has not been open to air for more than an hour or so.
2.) Or if it hasn’t out of refrigerant for more than 5-7 days and the system is till sealed up with no open or disconnected lines. You need to be able to hear the hiss when depress the valve core in either one of the service ports. That tells you that there is still pressure in the system, which keeps out moisture and contaminants.
If either of the above is not true, you must replace the accumulator/dryer assembly.

Freeze 12 refrigerant: $15-$16 per 12 Oz can on eBay. Get 3 cans, 2 for the initial charge and 1 spare for a top off charge.
Use R12 compatible mineral oil, 6-8 Oz. This may be difficult to find or expensive (~$20 a quart). Sometimes eBay will have the oil/R12 combination cans, which have about 4 oz. R12 and 2 oz. oil in them. If you go this route, add the R12/oil charge first, then add the cans of R12.
Do not use PAG oil in a Freeze 12 system without flushing it first.

Freeze 12 refrigerant charge= 26-28 Oz plus 6-8 Oz R12 mineral oil on an empty system. A recharge may only require 2-4 OZ of R12 mineral oil if you only replaced a line, hose or seals.

A/C systems that have had a compressor failure must be flushed. Failure to do so will result in the floating trash left behind from the compressor failure destroying the replacement compressor.

R134a = $11-$16 a can – takes 2 cans.

R134a PAG or Ester compatible oil = $7-$12 for an 8 oz bottle .

Pump to force cleaning fluid through the system $20-$50 (may use compressed air to do the same thing).

R134a charging adapter = $13 (I cut mine up to use it with the R12 gauge set that I have had for a long time).

Plastic tools to disconnect refrigerant lines - 1/2" & 5/8" = $4 each.

Flushing agent - Discount Auto Parts has some flushing solvent in a 1 gallon plastic bottle - try that first. Or use Mineral spirits = $4-$5 a gallon, tetrachloroethylene =$5-$10 a gallon, takes 2 gallons of either one.

Miscellaneous hoses and fittings to adapt the flushing pump to the system, and the R134a adapter to the R12 gauge set = $15.

R134 Refrigerant charge is 26-28 Oz plus 6-8 Oz of PAG 100 oil.

R134 Conversion Instructions:
I did a R134a conversion on my 89GT, and used all stock parts. You will need to replace the dryer/receiver (about $75 if you get the one with the hose made as part of the unit), and should replace all of the rubber "O" ring seals as well. You will need to drain all of the oil out of the compressor and replace it with new R134a compatible oil.

R134 instructions (skip this if you use Freeze 12)
Keep in mind that to fulfill the requirements of the EPA, you are required by law to recover any refrigerant that still remains in the system. How (or wither or not) you accomplish this is up to you. Connect the charging gauge hoses to the service ports on the A/C (red gauge = high pressure, blue gauge = low pressure) and open the valves on the gauges to dump the remaining refrigerant (if any) into your "Freon recovery system", whatever it may be. Disconnect the charging gauges since you are finished with them until you are ready to fill the system with R134a. Next comes the nasty part – in order to get all the old oil out of the system, you will need to flush it with special flushing solvent, or mineral spirits (ok) or tetrachloroethylene (better, but may be hard to get). If you leave the old oil in place it will congeal and reduce the heat transfer in the condenser and evaporator (read that it won’t cool good) and possibly damage the compressor.

Disconnect the compressor and remove it from its mount to flush it with cleaning solvent. Pour about a cup of solvent into the suction port and turn the compressor center hub about 10 turns while shaking the compressor to move the solvent around inside the compressor sump. Drain the flushing solvent out and continue to turn the center hub by hand to force out any remaining solvent. Then fill it with oil: add about 6-8 oz of the new oil to the compressor large suction fitting. Turn the compressor center hub about 20 turns as you turn the compressor face up and face down to distribute the new oil inside the compressor. Catch and replace any oil that comes out of the compressor.

Connect the pump (I had an electric sump pump I bought for $20) to the hose from the high-pressure side of the compressor. Alternately, you could use compressed air to force the cleaning fluid through the system. I didn’t like to do this since compressed air has lots of moisture in it, which is death to A/C systems. Pump the cleaning fluid through the system and let it come out the hose that was attached to the old dryer/receiver. I used 2 gallons of mineral spirits and pumped it all through the condenser and evaporator. The expansion valve is located near the firewall in the high-pressure line of the evaporator, and may cause the cleaning fluid to trickle through the lines at a very slow pace. You may want to pump cleaning fluid through the evaporator and condenser separately to speed up the process.

All refrigerant types
Next comes the changing of all the old "O" rings so that the chances for leaks is minimized. The new R134 compatible O rings are green colored, so be sure that the replacement O rings are green. Use the plastic connector tools to separate the lines, place the extended collar part of the tool so that it faces the large part of the connector and push inwards: this expands the spring so that you can pull the tube apart. You may need a helper to push on the tool while you pull on the tubes to separate them. Install the new "O" rings: be sure to coat them with new oil when you put them in. Install the new dryer/receiver, refrigerant service port adapter on the compressor, add about more 4oz of oil to high pressure line and tighten up all the lines. You may have to add more oil when you do a system that has been flushed or new R12 installation. The total oil charge should be 6-8 oz. for all types of refrigerants. Close the hood, start the engine, let everything get warm under the hood, but don’t add the refrigerant or turn the A/C on. Connect the charging gauge hoses to the service ports on the A/C (red gauge = high pressure, blue gauge = low pressure) and open both valves, then connect the center hose to the vacuum pump. The purpose of this exercise is to heat up the system so that when you vacuum it all down (yes, you will need a vacuum pump- mine is an old refrigerator compressor), that all the air, vapor and moisture from the cleaning fluid vaporizes and is removed from the system. Vacuum it down for about 30 minutes, this should give you about 28" of vacuum or more inside the A/C system. I have a vacuum gauge "T" connected into the vacuum pump line so that I can accurately watch the vacuuming process. This is a good time to take a soda and sandwich break since it doesn’t go faster if you watch it.

the R134a service fittings on the system: the red goes on the high side and the blue on the low side. This will help others identify that a R134a conversion has been done on the system.

Typical low pressure side R134 coupling
35-16363S-270x270.jpg


Typical high pressure side R134 coupling
35-16361s-270x270.jpg



Charging instructions for all refrigerant types:
Remove the electrical connector from the dryer/receiver and jumper the two connections inside the wiring harness side of the connector together: this allows the compressor to engage in spite of low pressure/no gas in the system. Close both charging gauge valves, and then disconnect the center hose of the charging gauges from the vacuum pump and connect it to the refrigerant can tapper. Put the refrigerant can in the can tapper and screw it down with the can tapper valve closed, then open the valve. Loosen the hose at the center connection of the charging gauge set until the refrigerant squirts out: this purges the line of air and moisture. The refrigerant is added through the low pressure side of the system, so open the low pressure gauge valve to add the refrigerant. Start the car and take note of the idle speed, then set the idle speed up to about 1200-1500 rpm, and turn the A/C on inside and set the fan speed on high. Watch for the pressure on the low side to drop off as you are filling, and the refrigerant can will get warm and stay warm. This tells you the current can is empty and needs to be changed for a fresh one. Before you disconnect the can, be sure to close the valve on the refrigerant can tapper.

Watch the high side pressure on the charging gages and regulate the adding of gas to keep the high side pressure under 350 psi. You will probably need a fan in front of the car to keep the readings below 350 psi. I had to put the refrigerant can in hot water while I was charging the system with it, or else the can got so cold that it quit flowing. Use caution when you do this so that you don’t get water in the charging adapter when you change the cans.

R12 Pressures when charging is complete
When you have added the 32-36 oz. of gas, the high side will read about 250-300 psi and low side about 28-38 psi. No adjustments need to be made to the low pressure cutout switch.

Freeze 12& R134 Pressures when charging is complete.
When you have added the 24-28 oz. of gas, the high side will read about 250-300 psi and low side about 18-28 psi.

Freeze 12 & R134 Low pressure cutout switch adjustment.
The low pressure cutout switches are adjustable. They should be set with the low limit about 18-21 PSI, the stock setting is about 25 PSI. Remove the wiring connector and there is a screw slot in between the connector pins. Turning it clockwise increases the trip pressure where it cuts off and counterclockwise decreases the trip pressure. I believe that each 1/4 turn counterclockwise lowers the cutoff pressure by 1 PSI.

After Charging refrigerant instructions, all refrigerant types
Turn the idle speed back to where it was, turn the A/C off, disconnect the charging gauges, and re-install all the caps on the service ports. Remove the jumper from the low pressure switch harness and plug it back on the switch connectors.

R134 only
Then put the R134a Service Sticker on, secure all the loose wiring on the system and you are done.

The typical sticker looks like this, yours may be different.


41-81359-270x270.jpg

I hope it cools good, mine doesn’t get quite as cold as it used to driving around town.

Thanks go to WWW.ACKITS.COM for some of the graphics.
Check out their website for parts and the Auto AC Forum.

The above technical note is for informational purposes only, and the end user is responsible for any damages or injury. The end user bears all responsibility for proper recovery/disposal of any R12 refrigerant.
I have EPA 608 and EPA 609 MVAC certification. And yes, you can shortcut the process, but there are negative factors if you do. Sooner or later, something will cease to function like it should. Shoddy work is a time b
 
#5,924
a91what said:
Mike do you have a timing pointer on your car? I was wondering if we ever verified the timing....

I'm in the middle of a edis8 swap right now and I know you run edis6.... how do you like it? Stock plug wires or.....?
Click to expand...
nope,..far from stock plug wires,...I had Taylor sell me a set that I could put my own ends on. I do have a pointer, and what's not to like?

To add to yesterday's short reply Steve, @a91what ....

Originally, I bought some premade 6 cylinder set for something or other, and half of the wires were worthless...(too short,..everything that is compatible w/ EDIS is a "V" configuration. So I called Taylor and he had me measure the length of the longest run, and he made 6 of them that length w/the proper "lock on" coil pack ends already installed.

I've had a timing light on it already,..and it corroborated what TS was claiming my timing was but it never hurts to recheck it...I intend to put a little test light into the circuit today to see if a ground signal is getting to the solenoid while the car is actually running. (if it'll ever stop freaking raining). I swear,...maybe I should be building a Amphi-Monster instead of a reptilian version?

Then I could just drive the thing into one of our swollen lakes, flip a switch where the tires tuck inside and are covered by little doors,..then pull a PTO lever that drives a second shaft w/ a big assed prop, and just rage around in the water...:banana:

It's thundering out right now, but it's not supposed to rain all day. I still have buttloads to do to my garage area, so maybe I can focus sometime there...(still need places to hang things, shelves to put junk on,...)

The oil drain plugs leak,..and they are as tight as I dare tighten them,...the washers are not thick enough and are too rigid,..(there's starting to be a little deformation from the plug pulling the metal ) so that means that I gotta find some drain plug washers that are a little more supple, and I gotta figure a way to get the plugs out while keeping the oil in the engine, then inserting a temporary stopper/cork thingy so that I can change out the existing washer that'll probably be stuck on the drain plug/pan floor.

I figure that home depot should have some sort of rubber stopper thingy that I can jam in there to do that.......I'll also buy an extra qt of oil for good measure though.

I wanna do the freon add thing too to see if I can get the AC system back to working so I can start to track down where the freon is going,...

And if,........IF... the wife hasn't put the finger on me to go somewhere, or do some stupid sht before I can get any of that other stuff done,.......maybe I'll be able to take the car out and try to see if that stupid electronic boost controller is ever gonna work.


Or whether I just gonna get online, and order two 10 pound springs from Summit and be done with that...(What I shoulda done in the first place when I had the gates off a couple of months ago)
 
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#5,925
Most of the stuff in the recharge cans isn't actually r134...its just r134 compatible.... And we don't even want to get into 1234zf, the new refrigerant all cars are going to. That stuff is flammable... Smh.

I used to use the cans you're talking about years ago. I'd do all types if work on AC systems and never vacuumed any of them.

The reason for vacuuming the system is to boil the moisture out.

The correct way is as jrichker posted. I've been doing it with a can and the hose gauge for at least 20 years. I can also say that vent temps of 34 degrees feel really good....that's where it'll get you with the can or an AC machine.

The high side is dependent on the health of your AC system. They all need the same running pressure to be efficient..whether that's 1.5lbs or 7lbs.
 
#5,926
Well.......the monster sucked up all 20 ounces of that monster can of freon......(he's supposed to hold 1.8 pounds).

When I started working on him this morning, that compressor wouldn't turn on when I turned on the AC. After putting in about a quarter of the can w/ the engine off, the compressor engaged and he drank all of his frozen juice in like a good little boy..

We'll see how long he keeps it in.

Only one drain plug was leaking,...my rubber stopper idea work like a champ,..I still managed to lose about 1/3rd of a qt. though...no more leaky.

I gotta go down to the court house and file for our homestead exemption, and then go to the bike shop and get my front wheel for my new bike,..(It was wonky, and I have never tried to true a wheel, so I let a shop do that for me,.....(I'll forego the 15.00 charge, and consider that money better spent)).

If I get home and it ain't freakin' raining, I'll take turn the electronic boost control solenoid back on, and go back to where I was in the duty cycle table and move it up to the next level and see if I get any more boost...(which should be 50%).

I'll make a couple of changes up to about 70% and see what's what...

Can anybody say............BOOM!
 
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#5,927
My brand new LMR stock replacement (chinee) oil pan is dripping from both plugs in my garage right now. Gotta love quality parts! Luckily I put cheap oil in just to prime the system to rotate the crank and adjust the rockers (and help clean out any dust from sitting dismantled). So its coming out and a new filter is going on anyway. Gonna have to copy your rubber washer job.
 
#5,928
See what I mean?

20170717_145849_zpsj2ez1ie3.jpg

Every freakin day....
No sooner did I get in the car,..change the tune parameters, start the car and begin to back out, and it thunders..

I pull the car straight back in, shut it off, close the garage door, and come up here and do this...

I feel like one of those kids in The Cat in The Hat..
“The sun did not shine. It was too wet to play. So we sat in the house. All that cold, cold, wet day.”

― Dr. Seuss, The Cat in the Hat

Im sick of this sht! it has rained every afternoon here for months now...

*** Uhh,..... I'll take desert southwest for 1000 Alex........
 
#5,931
Good looking doors and windows! The monster lair seems enviable as well.
madmike1157 said:
Only one drain plug was leaking,...my rubber stopper idea work like a champ,..I still managed to lose about 1/3rd of a qt. though...no more leaky.
Click to expand...
1/3 qt. seems like success to me, not leaking even more so.
madmike1157 said:
I gotta go down to the court house and file for our homestead exemption, and then go to the bike shop and get my front wheel for my new bike,..(It was wonky, and I have never tried to true a wheel, so I let a shop do that for me,.....(I'll forego the 15.00 charge, and consider that money better spent)).
Click to expand...
$15.00 well spent, but you seem remarkably able to handle tedium, so likely you could have done it.
madmike1157 said:
See what I mean?
Every freakin day....

Im sick of this sht! it has rained every afternoon here for months now...
Click to expand...
We've had a year and a half worth of rain since October (how they keep track.) The sun will come. Your BOOM will come.
 
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#5,938
I'm driving home tonight,.and I'm thinkin..."Do I want to dick with the car tonight?" or do I just cave, go home and lounge around....:shrug:
I consider my options:
I'll do it only if:
I left my computer plugged in,..otherwise it'll be dead,...no power to datalog the runs,..

But there it was,...fully charged.

I'll do it, only if "I feel it" when I walk down the stairs to the basement..

I was feelin it.

It's was still high 80's outside, but the humidity seemed tolerable,..Meh,...what the hell,..I can't talk myself out of it now. I'll take it up and down the highway for a couple of full throttle blasts to see if 50% duty cycle makes any difference.

I' didn't start the DL at first,...I wanted to watch the boost gauge and see if the thing actually goes past 7 before I even bother..

I floor it,..7,8,9,10,11 p.s.i. all are flyin by on the gauge......HOLY HELL!!! the things working at 50% duty cycle!!!

I start the datalog, and turn around,....floor it,....I see the same stuff again,....I do that a couple of times for good measure, and then drop the duty cycle back down to 45% to see if maybe the thing is hitting the overboost protection and is trying to go higher...

Only now the gauge will only read 8.

So I stop, return the thing back to 50%,...and bring it back home...happier that a clam in pond scum..

Lets see what the good ole datalog shows me...

50% duty cycle shows an almost consistent 11.9 p.s.i.....more than I wanted...so lets look back at the 45% duty cycle area of the chart and see what that says...

9.6-10 p.s.i.....clearly,... that gauge is nothing to trust....

So,...I open TS, and drop the duty cycle back from 50% down to 45%...I'm almost there guys.

86% injector duty cycle,..at a stupidly rich 11:1 AFR,..14.5 degrees of timing, and MAT's that go from ambient before the pull to 99* at the end....

Whoopidoo!!!:banana:
 
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