351W Stroker vs 390
- Thread starter js66coupe
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Driver ability is everything. Anyone have a car I can borrow ? 
And to make this work, YOU will be driving YOUR car. YOU afterall made the statement that a small block car will whip a big block car. And made the statement about me and rbohm needing to sit it out on the porch. So it's your responsibility to make the small block car work.
Hack
15 Year Member
I would build a small block rather than a 390 because it's easier and cheaper to find bellhousings and transmissions with overdrive that will bolt right up. Just a money thing. Also if you want to go EFI, it's cheaper with a small block.
Regarding the handling piece, if this is a priority to you - all due respect to D. Hearne and Rbohm, go small block all the way. Unless your idea of handling is staying in a straight line for a quarter mile - then the big block is marginally better.
Remember Shelby called the 427 Cobra a "PIG". That's because he thought that car was much better with a 289!! That had nothing to do with whether the suspension was set up correctly - these were race cars with no expense spared. The suspension was set up the best it could be. The 289 car just handled better - in Shelby's opinion. Now change that to a big inch small block, and there's no way the big block works better.
Now you can tell me I don't know much, but I believe Shelby... for some reason I believe he has some expertise in the matter.
Regarding the handling piece, if this is a priority to you - all due respect to D. Hearne and Rbohm, go small block all the way. Unless your idea of handling is staying in a straight line for a quarter mile - then the big block is marginally better.
Remember Shelby called the 427 Cobra a "PIG". That's because he thought that car was much better with a 289!! That had nothing to do with whether the suspension was set up correctly - these were race cars with no expense spared. The suspension was set up the best it could be. The 289 car just handled better - in Shelby's opinion. Now change that to a big inch small block, and there's no way the big block works better.
Now you can tell me I don't know much, but I believe Shelby... for some reason I believe he has some expertise in the matter.
Speaking of Shelby's, I've known some vintage racers at Road America that "upgraded" from 289 cobras to 427 cobras, and in every case they got slower. These are good drivers that know their cars.
Yes, you can make big blocks handle pretty damn well, but the weight distribution in our long nosed front heavy Mustangs favors the small block, all else being equal. And by all else, I mean drivers too. You can't compare equipment when one car has a fast driver and one car has a novice. The only thing that tells you is that one guy is slow. Hardly compelling data, IMO.....
Yes, you can make big blocks handle pretty damn well, but the weight distribution in our long nosed front heavy Mustangs favors the small block, all else being equal. And by all else, I mean drivers too. You can't compare equipment when one car has a fast driver and one car has a novice. The only thing that tells you is that one guy is slow. Hardly compelling data, IMO.....
FIXT ! What was done with the original 427 Cobra's isn't a fair comparison. You're talking apples vs oranges there. They could hardly be called race cars with no expense spared.
Hack
15 Year Member
So are you REALLY still trying to say that a big block car handles as well as a small block?
Or are you trying to change your argument to say that the Mustang is no expense spared on suspension, but the racing Cobras with 289/427 motors had junk suspension by comparison?
When I changed my '70 convertible from a 250 straight six to a 302, the handling suffered (even with upgraded springs and sway bar). Adding weight anywhere on a car is bad for handling, but especially adding 100 or more pounds on the nose. I could tell a significant difference; and there's no way someone is going to send me to LeMans.
So are you REALLY still trying to say that a big block car handles as well as a small block?
IN THE HANDS OF AN EXPERIENCED DRIVER, YES.
Or are you trying to change your argument to say that the Mustang is no expense spared on suspension, but the racing Cobras with 289/427 motors had junk suspension by comparison?
THE FIRST 427 COBRAS WERE ESSENTIALLY 289 CARS WITH A 427 DROPPED IN IT'S PLACE. AND AS FAR AS I'VE READ ON THE SUBJECT, THE 289 CAR'S SUSPENSION WAS LITTLE CHANGED FROM WHAT THE ORIGINAL AC CARS HAD IN THE 50'S
When I changed my '70 convertible from a 250 straight six to a 302, the handling suffered (even with upgraded springs and sway bar). Adding weight anywhere on a car is bad for handling, but especially adding 100 or more pounds on the nose. I could tell a significant difference; and there's no way someone is going to send me to LeMans.
You're comparing apples to oranges once again. The six banger cars were marginal handlers with a 6 cylinder in it. And replacing one with a 302 didn;t add that much weight. You ever actually weighed both ? 6 cylinder ford engine aren't exactly lightweights
blown65
Founding Member
No offense but if you take the same driver and put him in a small block car with similar power to a big block car weighing 200-300 lbs more, which car will be faster on the track. Cmon, you two are so stubborn sometimes. LOL
Now the key word here is "similar". No two cars are ever alike. I can take two identical small block cars and one will always be faster than the other. The purpose of this thread was to ask which of the two would be better. And that was answered, long ago. But someone had to throw down the gauntlet and insult the intelligence of those who have actually owned and driven big block Stangs. The difference between a well built B/B car and a similarly powered small block car isn't what "you who think" a small block car is superior is. As I said before, if the guy who started this thread has a B/B car, then the 390 is clearly the way to go.. If he's got a small block car, then that's the way to go.
Hack
15 Year Member
Are you now trying to say that an original 1970 6 cylinder Mustang is totally different from a V8 car?
They have the same 5 lug wheels and the same suspension components. The body is the same. BUT they are apples and oranges to you. I'm surprised you didn't understand my post. The concepts aren't that difficult. No apples and oranges - just a Mustang with about 100 pounds (IIRC) added to the front end.
I put in a 302 and it handled WORSE. I have roller bearing front suspension, big block springs and a big block sway bar in it, but the 302 weighs MORE so it didn't turn corners as well.
YES the 6 cylinder was not much lighter than the 302. That's why I was surprised when the car handled so much worse with the SLIGHTLY HEAVIER 302. Not a lot heavier, but enough that even an amateur like me could tell a big difference.
Thanks !!
add comp or stroke it
Hi I have a 86 mustang LX with a 69 351w and a ford toploader in it
It runs 13.40s at 6000ft alt in Denver I want it to run in the low 12.00s
I have a set of wpd sr heads but stock piston and rods about 9 to1 comp
can I get new piston and rods to put the comp up to 11.5-12.5 or stroke it to 408 ? what should I do for the best bang for my buck.
It only runs at the drag strip. I run in the Rocky Mountain Stick Shifters
RMSS club and ET classes
Hi I have a 86 mustang LX with a 69 351w and a ford toploader in it
It runs 13.40s at 6000ft alt in Denver I want it to run in the low 12.00s
I have a set of wpd sr heads but stock piston and rods about 9 to1 comp
can I get new piston and rods to put the comp up to 11.5-12.5 or stroke it to 408 ? what should I do for the best bang for my buck.
It only runs at the drag strip. I run in the Rocky Mountain Stick Shifters
RMSS club and ET classes
bchampion
Member
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