400HP 2V N/A....Going back to my roots....

[Yel2002GTAuto]

So I was brainstorming ways to try to increase HP per Cubic in and impacts from Compression, Head Types, Porting, Intakes, and cams that would maximize HP and TQ Gains. When it comes to modding a 2v or any engine for that matter, you can truly see how off the shelf parts, vs custom part are a must in some instances along with modifying certain parts are needed to achieve best performance.

Lets talk HP per CU first:
- Normally, cars off the showroom floor for high performance N/A are in the 1.15 to 1.40 range for HP per cubic in and can vary in size of displacement and RPM capability levels....
- A normal stock 281 GT puts down 235/270 bone stock to the tires lets say... so 235hp/281cu = .836hp per cu... Pretty sad bone stock....
- A Gen 3 car stock 302 has 415hp/380tq to the tires so lets say... 415hp/302cu = 1.374 HP per CU.. This was attained by Increase in Compression to 12.1, better valve train and head flow to higher rpms, and variable cam timing (VTC).... very impressive for technology enhancements...
- When you mod a car and looking for gains, you're really trying to increase HP per CU Inch to increase performance...
- A supercharger on a bone stock 281 for a base kit and ranges from 340 to 360 to the tires... so lets say 360/281 = 1.28hp per CU Inch... Impressive for just a base kit modification and simple bolt on...
- A supercharger stage 2/3 kit intercooled and dyno tuned with full bolt ons can hit 440hp max safely so 440/281 = 1.56hp per CU IN which is impressive... but that is 14lbs of boost on a ticking time bomb in my opinion... but with a built SB you see why most go Supercharger...
- My car with full bolt ons, Heads (Ported), cam, full exhaust put down 355/281 = 1.26HP per CU Inch... which was pretty impressive considering small displacement through an auto...

Optimal range for HP per CU:
- Many race cars or high-end dragsters are putting down 1.9 to 2.5 HP per cu in so these are engines that are completely maximized, race fuel, super high compression, etc...
- So what should a goal be for a properly built streetcar for max effort.... for any engine, I would say 1.5 HP per cu in is the goal for max power and reliability....
- Looking at my set up with 1.26hp per CU In, there was plenty of potential to get over 1.3 which is a decent bump in power but ultimate goal is 1.5... just getting to 1.3hp per CU would be 281x1.3hp per CU = 365.3... for 1.4 would be 281x1.4 = 393,4 HP ... but looking at the parts available at the time, getting 1.5hp per CU In was nearly impossible..... for 1.5 this would be 281x1.5 = 421.5hp...

 

[Yel2002GTAuto]

So lets look at displacement potential for a moment.... going from 281 cu to 323 for example.... for every cubic in you get you should gain that much in power but there are many variable that come into play... most engine builder note that 1.2 to 1.3 HP per cu in is standard on solid engine builds and are good results... so what would this equate to....

So 323x 1.2 HP per CU should = 387.6hp... that is typical for PI heads ported, full exhaust and bolt ons I have found with off the shelf parts... the heads were the weak point as flow on a 323 cu in motor should be able to produce close to 450hp to the tires and can vary based on intakes, rpm range, cams, and head flows... this shows me that heads are the weakest point now from a PI Ported head standpoint...

So my car with heads ported 44cc TFS had a 1.26hp per cu in range and could have easily been 1.3 with just a cam swap... so this potential is 323x1.26 = 406.98 hp..... with 1.3 it would be 323x1.3= 419.9 hp......

So how would I look to increase HP per cubic in from here.....
- higher revving intake should gain 20-30 hp in higher rpms but lose same in tq... so lets say 323x1.4 hp per cubic in = 452,2 hp..
- higher CRs can raise hp per cubic in just like superchargers do... increase the compression in the cylinder... so going from 11.34 to 1 to 12 to 1 CR as example should next 3% more HP or 4% per 1 full point of compression... so lets say 406.98 x 3% = 12,20 hp gain or around 419 to 420 hp using stock intake set up with my combo...
- Increasing head flow.... by increasing Head flow but just a few cfms can drastically add 30-50 hp based on size of engine and other factors... restrictions in air flow for heads is the weakest point.... won't go into math here as I explained in other posts that simple improving flow from porting by 10 cfm can achieve this...
- Fuels and Octane.... Pump gas has its limit with around 12.1 cr or 195lbs of cylinder pressure per piston... that is for 93 octane... so going with e-85 can allow you to go to 13 to 1 cr or 12.1 cr and maximize timing and also increase HP with the cooling properties alone for cylinder temperatures...

So when your looking to do an N/A build these little variables are what you need to think about when purchasing parts, getting custom work on heads, cams, or intakes to maximize your project and hit the desired threasholds....

For the TFS 5.3l with R heads and TFS intake and .625 cams this hit 518hp.... so with ported heads, think 50-60hp gains at this level or 575 to 580hp and then throw in E85 and 12 to 1 CR and potentially 600-610 crank HP for a max effort 2v.... so parts are out there now, just need to think through all the little details needed to maximize your goals.... math shows its there just finding the right combos now and testing are the key... Just wanted to share my finding and potential...

So if 600 crank hp on a manual would = 600 crank HP-12% drive train loss = 528hp to tires or 528hp/323 cu in = 1.63 hp per cubic inch... so this is possible

 

[Yel2002GTAuto]

So, I am looking at deciding if I should switch to e85 or just build for a 93-octane fuel and use Torco for additive for insurance.... like I noted before, since I am building a max effort Auto build and looking to keep peak power in the 5900 - 6200 rpm range.... So going from 13.34 CR to 11.75 CR or about 2% CR increase....

Goal for tweaking for 400+hp and tq is:
- Starting at 355hp and 350tq...
- 2% increase in CR should net 8-10hp across the board...
- Going from 281cu to 323 CU should net 1.3hp x 42 = 54.6 hp gain...
- Have some ideas for improving PI Intake to maximize flow or total cfm potential (should help with higher CR and larger Displacement so will discuss when the time comes)
- Larger lifts on Camshafts for improved airflow across the board and higher rpms (need to flow my 44cc heads for 94mm bore to see where CMF flows across the board and where they taper off at peak) I am thinking my current port work will go past .600 lift but will probably revert at .650 lift.... so someone in-between will be the sweet spot.... unless I can get a good head builder to tweek and port a bit more or changes valves, seats, and seals to improve a bit...
- ESP Armor coating on Crank and Rods for stroker.... which adds as much as 26-28 hp consistently on a big block.... in theory, should be a 10-15 hp gain on a smaller block engine but every little bit helps.... some of the small blocks noted 16-18 hp gains according to website for eagle...

Overall, this is how I am planning my build to think out for all the little details. Same applies to going with boost for supercharges, turbos, nitrous, ect....

Going E85 would need larger injectors, and dedicated fuel rails, lines, etc... Thinking of just keeping the stock lines, with 300lph fuel pump and just going to 52-60lb injectors.... hopefully the returnless fuel system will be fine .... could always run a boost a pump if needed....

Little details and thought out plan.... don't want to spend more that I have to and keep costs down to hit my goals...

 

[Yel2002GTAuto]

A few more thoughts on E85....

- Does E85 add more power....
- I have researched a bit on E85 and there are a few things I found that give this fuel serious consideration...
- E85 can raise cylinder pressure? Thought around this is the cooling properties, octane level, and other properties raise the cylinder pressure and can give you 20hp.... my thoughts are for VCT engines and sensors allowing to maximize fuel based in octane allows for engine to advance timing and run more efficiently...
- Higher octane and cooling properties does allow you to run more timing, greatly reduces detonation and can run a lot more compression...
- So for cars with VTC this is a huge benefit.... and cars without, you can go 13 to 1 compression and run safely... so benefits on both sides...
- For a Coyote mustang you just need a tune and done and gain good power...
- For older 2v engines you can go to 13 to 1 CR which will gain around 16% more hp from stock compression.... and with a built engine say 400 to 410 hp at crank with my old set up would gain another 7 to 8 % more power... or 28 to 36 more hp and tq just from better fuel and timing...
- Just some more thoughts to think through during the build
- luckily, living in Southern
Illinois, as E85 is abundant so viable option...

 

[Yel2002GTAuto]

So there was a guy ... video My 500 hp 2v....that claimed he hit 500hp NA on a mustang dyno With a 2v from NC....his car was an aluminum block, custom ported work on the block for improved oiling, custom ported 38cc heads, custom grind cams, full exhaust, victor jr intake, with the 95mm 6180 plenum both ported....and all little custom work on a stock bore with a stroker crank...so 302 cu in i would assume....this was a 12.5 to 1 compression on pump gas...worth noting that NC has 95 at the pump...so 500 on a mustang dyno would have been 525 to 535 at the tires...so basically....similar to the TFS built 5.3l with port work and customization of parts...had a/c deleted and manual brakes as well... so this would be around 600ish crank hp...I would have loved to learn more like drag times and how the car held up to this build...car looked to build peak power around 6200 rps and peak tq around 5000rpms and 460 tq to tires....didn't show curves but assume he used dual pact value springs and higher lift cams custom grind cams with larger overlap to bleed off some dynamic compression...just some more thoughts and build ideas..

 

[Yel2002GTAuto]

So got my interior broken down now.....in process of removing rear window tint and driver a passenger window tint as well....installing brand new ACC carpet and looking for options for repainting interior pieces or other custom details.... got new manual seat rail extenders and just deciding which seats to go with...coming along slowly but will ramp up work now that it is cooler..... still have some engine parts on back order so doing what I can for now...just a quick update...

 

[Yel2002GTAuto]

Hi all...been working a lot and slowly working on the car... looking at which seats to get and wanting comfort with weight savings... also, been researching head builders and porters to help improve my ported TFS 44cc heads since they just have a mild port work done and stock springs, valves, and guilds.... overall, happy with direction of build and those reaching out for ideas, thanks and looking forward to making more progress...

 

[Yel2002GTAuto]

Hi all, so been slow to work on the car with work and other life stuff, but doing little bits here and there on clean up, and putting on refurbishing parts. I will post up some picks and updates soon. Haven't sent anything in yet on the engine as I am still researching a couple of things but should start in the next few months. I will be looking to do a Youtube channel once I get going to go over the process from start to finish and posting items here from Time to time... I decided to move forward with the 5.3L Stroker build so mapping out the build from start to finish... This is a full out build for my goals.... not for full out power... What does that mean.... for my goals, it will be a daily drive capable car with 420-450hp NA 2v with a great operational RMP Range... so peak power in the 5800-6200 range.... If I wanted to go 500hp to tires, this would require a different philosophy on intakes, rpm ranges, and transmission set up which is boyond current goals.... Just want to build a power plant that can work with everything else and just engine build and bolt ons... Thanks for those that are following, are interested, and/or providing input in email... much appreciated...

"ED"

 

[Yel2002GTAuto]

Hi all you 2v fans.... i am off until after new years so going to do some work on the stang... I have been reading and watching videos a lot from David Vizard, Richard Holdener and others on cam testing. Head porting, intakes, and other power mods... learned a lot about displacement, head flow and cam events... I was re reading through my posts and trying to rethink my cam profile... all comes down to how the heads flow on a 94mm bore or 5.0... thinking something around 108 lsa 244/236 with .600 lift...was trying to balance longevity of valve drive train parts and performance..... don't want to beat up on valve train for 10 to 15hp..... hope everyone has a great holiday!!

Ed

 

[Yel2002GTAuto]

Also, staying with plan to go 11.7 to 1 static cr...on pump gas with torco fuel additive..I researched E85 and no reason to go there unless on my set up I go 12.5 cr or higher... hence the cam profile I selected which will be good for dynamic compression... 93 octane safe up to 12.1...

 

[Yel2002GTAuto]

So I watched a video on the 2v TFS heads from David Vizard.... needless to say he was really impressed with these heads and noted this is one of the best aftermarket heads ever built from flow to power potential... right out the box and even better when modified... really good video and goes over all flow rates and potential... I believe in their build they got 185 38cc heads to flow around 297cfm...not the R heads either.. but impressive thing was the flow rates at all lifts... when I gets my heads redone I will be using stainless steel valves, bronze valve guilds and have the ports retouched and flowed for 5.0 bore... as noted above, I will be really close on the cam profile I think would best match so excited to get this going now.... worked on the car a bit and repainting floorboards and everything is scrubbed and cleaned in interior... I will spend the next few days cleaning and prepping.... hope everyone had a great holiday!!

Ed

 

[jb232004]

Thanks for posting up these posts and keep them coming. I love all the factual information with the Dyno sheets to back them up. I’m going to find other posts you have in here. Great stuff!!!

Also, thank you for serving our country and happy retirement.

 

[Yel2002GTAuto]

Thanks brother, I am slowly building my car at the moment but will be rolling more info soon...I have a ton of ideas where a 2v based engine should roll well over 400hp easily... I found it very interesting on the David Vizard testing of the 4.6 TFS heads where the potential for these heads come in high 600,s hp potential based ox x rpms...around 8300ish I belive with full out build...for full race build type of engine...

Ed

 

[Yel2002GTAuto]

I am a firm believer that 450 hp on a 5.3 stroker with right cam, and intake setup is possible with daily driver characteristics with TFS heads can be achieved...or 520ish crank hp...or even 600 crank with right modifications and set up under 6500 rpms... time and testing and right plan along with research....

Ed

 

[Yel2002GTAuto]

Also, the 393/398 hp 5.3l built peaked at 5750/ 4000 rpms...so a stage 4 cam was very small for that set up with a .575 lift... with some tweaks and custom work, 440/430 to the tires and perfect drivability are achievable...

Ed

 

[Yel2002GTAuto]

So I was brainstorming how much the 393/398 HP set up would have gained with Porting the heads, bump in cam size to Stage 5 cams with a .600 lift from the .575 lift .... based on my results with testing Ported TFS Head and how the TFS in house testing did with bigger lift cams (gained 55hp with .625 lift), I would assume there would have been a 30-40hp gain at peak and possibly 65 to 80hp gain at 6800 rpms... that is with 11.34 to 1 CR on pump gas.... now bump up to 12.1 and run E-85, it is possible to gain another 20-25 more HP on that set up on top of ported heads, cams and lift.... so street able 435 to 455 hp and tq to tires with a 5.3l big bore set up with PI and or Bullitt Intake...... Just some more thoughts on this set-up... Going from the stage 4 to stage 5 cam would really help even out the power and tq curve and let the car breath up top... the stage 5 cam would look to be equivalent to a stage 2.5 cam on a 281 build with 42 cube increase.... this bullitt was way to torquey down low and needed about another 500rpm gain up top..

Ed

 

[Yel2002GTAuto]

So, I wanted to talk about Cam profiles and how to select cams based on setup, Engin Displacement, Intakes, and Power Curves..... A lot of times we think wrongly about cam selection or how a cam works based on power goals, Compression, and usage.... I hear a lot of times that people don't want to go big or loss of low end drivability but there are ways to get the best of both worlds and have a car that drives perfectly on the street and is a beast at the track or drag strip... let me explain my thoughts and findings...

I will break it down in separate posts for each one...

 

[Yel2002GTAuto]

First off, usage.... is your car a daily driver, street strip, or road racer.... depending on use, profiles for cams and intakes will determine the rpm ranges you will need max power and TQ at... For most of the crowd it is street strip and/or daily drive or both so I will focus here since this is in line with what my goals are...

So, unless you are building a full out drag car cams are the biggest bang for adding power and need to be balanced for drivability.... Intakes are limited for the 2v and the best intake in my opinion by far is the PI intake...once you go to a larger intake like the TFS or Victor Jr... you drastically shift the power curve up and
Most people do a stage 1 to stage 3 cam for their 2v mustangs as an example as they don't want to go too big thinking drivability down low will suffer... This can be correct if you go to big a cam with an LSA over 110 and up... When you go with a bigger duration cam this will shift the TQ and HP curve up in the graph and starts impacting low end TQ/HP for drivability.... but how can you get the best of both worlds?

Lower the LSA down .... some theories are that lowering the LSA down effect low end drivability or idle quality... it does to some extent but having a cam match flow for head/intake and lowing the LSA can net great low end Power/TQ without sacrificing top end power... get the best of both worlds and a nice aggressive idle with the choppy cam sound... as long as the cam events are inline with the build, there really isn't any downfalls unless your cam doesn't match our set up....

 

[Yel2002GTAuto]

Check out Richard Holdener's LSA cam test... search - LSA CAM TEST-108 vs 112 vs 120 - on youtube..

Same specs on cams for duration and lift with just Lobe separation Angles (LSA) Changes only... needless to say, you will be shocked...

Also, another great article on how to select a camshaft LSA based on Engine displacement, valve size, and a few other data points check out David Vizards video below:

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=d80c...20vZm9ydW0vdmlld3RvcGljLnBocD90PTQ1NjM5&ntb=1

The formula for - LCA = 128 - (CUI / 8 / Valve Dia, x .91) This will put you in the ballpark for the best effective LSA for your engine...

Ed

 

[Yel2002GTAuto]

So here is the LSA calculation for my current build to show how to use...

Lsa = 128 - (323/8/1.84x.91) = 108.032 lobe separation angle for max efficiency..

Here is a look at my old set up on 281 that made 355hp...

128 - (281/8/1.78x.91) = 110.629... one thing to call out is I manually adjusted the las to a 109 lsa using my adjustable cam gears...I wanted as much tq down low since I had a 4000 stall...

Seems very accurate....I did notice that the larger the displacement, the lower the LSA came out...

After watching Richard Holdeners test of LSA grinds, It made sense of how the LSA effects HP down low as to me it helps efficiency on the low end and doesn't lose top end at all....just find the sweet spot for idle for LSA and idle and you maximize your performance... totally opposite of off the shelve cams...

Seems to me you get more average hp throughout the curve and broader power band...

Ed